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The Otters Next Victim

Actually it is easy to blame the farmers and factories for the demise of our rivers but we are all the villains here in as much as we chose to buy into the culture of mass produced, factory farmed, petrol driven, concrete covered, GM modified, excess and waste that is destroying our countryside (rivers included). We all use far too much water, burn too much energy and want cheap food, etc, etc, etc. and few of us are prepared to do anything about changing that. Beyond this the big joke is that those of us who do look to change our environmentally damaging life-styles actually have to pay extra for the privilege of buying organic, bio-degradable, recycled, environment friendly products, and cannot conceivably choose to buy into using solar power, etc. as it is too expensive to do so.

Even if we were all to go organic and ecological friendly tomorrow, our little country is far to overpopulated to find easy answers to the problems overpopulation causes (especially to our rivers and wildlife), meanwhile our consumer culture is not looking for sustainable solutions where quick fixes and the pursuit of profit (at any cost) will do..... and few of us consider any of these things when we get in the car, turn on our taps or go shopping. As for the Government coming up with some solutions............ well don't get too hopeful!!!
 
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Firstly, I didn't say the Thames never previously had barbel, I was just using it as an example of how rivers where virtually dead in recent history, I'm aware that as an eastern flowing river, it probably always contained barbel.
Secondly, when I mentioned otters being shy, I meant towards humans, not mink, the link was to show that otters are indeed spreading naturally, something you questioned Dave, and at the extent of the mink, which is a good sign(in my opinion!).
Thirdly, it would appear that my posts have been taken as a personal attack on certain individuals, this is simply not the case and I'm sorry if you feel that it is. I may have defended my corner when my views have been attacked, but who wouldn't? I have already agreed that where otters have caused significant damage to fish stocks, that this needs to be addressed. My beef is with the 'kill them all! my catch rates have suffered!' or 'its all the otters fault!' idiots that seem to crop up on these threads. I never once accused any one individual of thinking this way, but if the cap fits...
Its not a case of picking otters over barbel or vice versa, just because I fish for barbel and I'm on a barbel forum, doesn't mean I have to agree with other barbel anglers when it comes to otters. Its not the sodding masons!
 
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Spot on as ever Chris. To my mind, as anglers all we can do is keep banging away at them, in the hope that while we can't realistically expect any huge policy shifts, or major changes in corporate policy, that at least we can make sure that they are uncomfortably aware that we are there and watching. It might just make them think twice when considering policy options which would impact on our sport.

What is absolutely certain is that without anglers, our waterways would be in a much worse state than they are now. To me, that highlights the point that while the vast majority of us admit to being apathetic, we are hugely fortunate in having a few hard working souls battling away out there on our behalf, and doing so effectively enough to mak a real and meaningful difference. Such a shame then that any attempt by any of these people to elicit support on this forum is routinely met by certain members with a pointless barrage of hostility and negative comments. Very sad.

While everyone is of course entitled to their own opinions on any and every subject, there are some who perhaps might do well to step back and consider the motives behind their attitude.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Youy may not think you are attacking individuals Rhys, but when you reply with a Quote and then add your comments such as " wanting to see rivers devoid of all life except barbel" and such like, then the implication is that you are accusing the person you are responding to of holding that view. What other assumption could be drawn from a response like that? You are quite correct to state that you are entitled to your views and do not have to agree with others. The same applies in reverse.
 
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Today, when you read the official blurb about the reintroduction of otters, it is put over as having been carefully considered and well-orchestrated. Well in some cases this might have been the case, but where the Otter Trust was involved, often they did exactly what they wanted, at times even ignoring and going beyond the wishes of Natural England, etc. Certainly there was no consideration given to the condition of the rivers they were released in. In fact, it was all a bit of a quick fix solution that has happily worked for the otters but the question of dealing with the impact that these otters are having on many fishingies (rivers and lakes) has still not been properly addressed. I am not advocating culling here, but the reality of the situation here is that angling was ridden over rough shod and the Government (EA & NE) continue to fail us by not coming up with any solutions or answers. Where they have delivered any positive help for those fisheries being devastated, such as restocking, it has not been as an act of generous good will but has usually been driven by anglers actively campaigning and overcoming the authorities. This situation is unlikely to change in a hurry, particularly when we apathetically refuse to support the Angling Trust and others working to protect angling's interests.
 
Rhys Perry said:
Firstly, I didn't say the Thames never previously had barbel, I was just using it as an example of how rivers where virtually dead in recent history, I'm aware that as an eastern flowing river, it probably always contained barbel.
Secondly, when I mentioned otters being shy, I meant towards humans, not mink, the link was to show that otters are indeed spreading naturally, something you questioned Dave, and at the extent of the mink, which is a good sign(in my opinion!).
Thirdly, it would appear that my posts have been taken as a personal attack on certain individuals, this is simply not the case and I'm sorry if you feel that it is. I may have defended my corner when my views have been attacked, but who wouldn't? I have already agreed that where otters have caused significant damage to fish stocks, that this needs to be addressed. My beef is with the 'kill them all! my catch rates have suffered!' or 'its all the otters fault!' idiots that seem to crop up on these threads. I never once accused any one individual of thinking this way, but if the cap fits...


Its not a case of picking otters over barbel or vice versa, just because I fish for barbel and I'm on a barbel forum, doesn't mean I have to agree with other barbel anglers when it comes to otters. Its not the sodding masons!
Click to expand...

See what I mean Rhys? You have modified your wording and style in an vain attempt to come across as a more reasonable person, even apparently apologising for saying things that could be 'taken as' personal attacks....but then exposed the lie in that by demonstrating your true colours with the jibe "But if the cap fits" :rolleyes: You really cant help yourself, can you fella?

Nuf said!
 
The Chairman on Friday

Subject: What an otter liberty!


http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/

Already very popular with the hard of thinking, the terminally disaffected and nutjobs in general, I hear. Looks like another blasted Quango to me, masquerading as "We're listening", Power To The People 'Democracy'.

Anyway, otter-lovers etc, off you jolly well go.


As ever,

B.B.
 
Paul Boote said:
The Chairman on Friday

Subject: What an otter liberty!


http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/

Already very popular with the hard of thinking, the terminally disaffected and nutjobs in general, I hear. Looks like another blasted Quango to me, masquerading as "We're listening", Power To The People 'Democracy'.

Anyway, otter-lovers etc, off you jolly well go.


As ever

B.B.
Click to expand...


Very good......:D
 
As usual I find your comments baffling, but above all hugely insulting and at least patronising Paul to others that seem to you do not share your view of things. You talk of 'nutjobs' and 'hard of thinking' and from someone so dedicated to a Christian ethic.
Personally I do not see much wrong in testing the will of the people in a range of issues.. Do You?
 
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Hi men ,

Chris , I was told that the otter releases by the otter trust were done against the advice of both the EA , and the Wildlife Trusts , but they they did it anyway . How can that be right ?.


Hatter
 
Mark Anderson said:
Hi men ,

Chris , I was told that the otter releases by the otter trust were done against the advice of both the EA , and the Wildlife Trusts , but they they did it anyway . How can that be right ?.


Hatter
Click to expand...

It wasn't right, but then Phillip Whare (spelled wrongly) was basically doing his own thing and probably made a fair bit of dosh doing so. Before the Otter Trust he owned the Wildlife Park at Lenwade, which existed under the pretense of captive breeding species to return to the wild, though this always looked highly suspicious to me. He had a huge aviary there full of many species of (mostly common) wild birds that were supposedly being bred for reintroduction. I thought this was a total con, in reality being just a few more exhibits intended to draw the punters in and part with their entrance fees.
 
Aw, you're just sore, Dave, because even with 9/10ths of mine gone, it's still considerably larger than.............
 
Paul Boote said:
Aw, you're just sore, Dave, because even with 9/10ths of mine gone, it's still considerably larger than.............
Click to expand...

:D:D:D

Mind you, I can't tell you how much I prefered the products of the full monty...now THAT was worth listening to.

But...time does what time does :D

Cheers, Dave
 
One day he'll troll one of those a little too deeply, and hook himself in the arse!
 
So EASY to wind up the usual suspects ... out of the toybox they waddle, clicking and whirring and letting out the occasional outraged howl...
 
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