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The Otters Next Victim

Nah. Oldest pal I have (we met, he a mad cricketer, me a mad reader, dreamer and on-my-bike fisher, each aged 13) both emailed and phoned me last night after seeing the above stuff: "You're best out of fishing, Paul ... as you've been saying to me for the past few years ... but I never really realised... [followed several expletive deleted estimations of the worth and character of 'fishermen' in general]."

Not out of fishing, but never, sadly, ever mixing face-to-face with my fellow fishers again (except those encountered anonymously on a riverbank), for it would spoil for me what I have long loved and continue to love: rivers, their environs, the fish, the birds and bees, the intellectual challenge, the mystery, the ambience - this sort of stuff:


Testament of a Fisherman

I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because of all the television commercials, cocktail parties, and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe one day I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant - and not nearly so much fun.

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
 
Again you besmirch in a sly way your angling brothers, is it any wonder then that you attract such comment. You take comfort in like minded indivuduals that further massage you already hugely inflated ego that seems set to explode at any moment.
Perhaps some real advice the down to earth type is needed Paul, you are a man that fishes, and fishes well, but please can we not have a little true perspective, you do not own the frahchise as to why we all fish, we already know, and most are nearly not so foolish as you would wish us to be.
 
Off we again, in the true spirit of Izaak Walton. I'll repeat three or four of the more repeatable words my pal used last night for such point-scoring fractious sorts: "Hard-bitten little people". And with this I leave you; to be patronising, you really aren't worth my time or consideration.
 
I think that's a great quote from Voelker.

Perhaps the problem is that for some angling is an escape from the values of the modern world, or at least the mainstream workaday world. And for others, angling is an extension of that world. Some of us go fishing to escape commercialism. Others go seeking it. Some go fishing looking out for all aspects of wildlife they'll encounter on the way, others in the single minded pursuit of a particular species, sometimes an individual named fish.

This does test the limits of what it means to have a 'brotherhood' to pick up on Neil's point. A brotherhood implies a set of common interests, but are we really so similar? Paul isn't (perhaps) having a dig at us all, setting himself apart from 'the herd', but maybe the values *some* of us continue to inject into angling, making it not the thing it used to be. There's perhaps more differences than similarities between anglers now, and that might explain why it has been so difficult to maintain any united front when it comes to national movements and committees etc. And the 'otter' issue continues to divide, as this and other threads have shown for this very reason. We all seek such different things from our sport.

I must admit I am a strange mixture of traditionalist and pragmatist myself. I sympathise with Paul B, but I also understand the frustration others feel as they see the barbel disappear from their favourite rivers. Ultimately though, the pragmatist in me fears any head on fight with otters that isn't part of a much broader debate about a balanced ecology isn't going to do us any favours at all. In fact, probably a lot of harm.

And then there the obvious fact that deep down, however impassioned we are about our sport, at the end of the day that is all it is: a pastime. It isn't life or death. It isn't even about putting food on the table in the way it once would have been.

So if you end up taking this debate into the mainstream and like fox hunting it ends up mixed up with public opinion, we need to remember that fishing for sport is a privilege and shouldn't be considered an automatic right. Otherwise we'll look like the bunch of rather short-sighted and self-motivated people Paul B has described above.
 
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Hi men ,

Paul , your mates a bit of a ****** then ain't he , because my estimate of " fishermen in general " is without doubt the opposite . I have made so many good friends through angling that it don't bare thinking about . I bump into people that fished the same lake I did 30 years ago , and we chat as if it was yesterday . Barbel anglers in particular can come across as a little on the elitist side , but I put up with that , because on the bank they become kids with rods .


Hatter
 
On the contrary, Mark, my mate is like me: we learned early - from our parents and from our teachers - that, in life, you not only should but MUST treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself. As result, I have always treated my fellow human beings and fishers very well - indeed, made a point of doing so, and being someone who is naturally cheery and positive and always looking on the bright side of life have had my genuine niceness (not "What can I get out of this guy?") returned. I've had some great fishing pals, and met other brilliant people on the bank for a few minutes or hours who have stayed with me as a good memories to this very day. However, there are some MONSTERS out there, in Angling, as in life. Not many, but it takes only a few ambitious, pushy, utterly ruthless, attention-seeking, briefly believable, self-serving monomaniacs to ruin it not only for yourself but also for the many. Terribly old-fashioned-sounding stuff from me, someone who is far from old-fashioned, I know, but what's that tech saying of the past two decades? Got it - Rubbish in, rubbish out.
 
Hi men ,

No Paul , he is a bit of a ****** , as me and my mate , and people on here are all " Fishermen in general " , and who the **** is he to judge me , my mates , and people who you post to on here . Why you should want back up by having to post his thoughts I dont know , because you do that well enough yourself .


Hatter
 
Give up? I didn't say that; only total infirmity or death will stop me going fishing. Give up on all Angling Scene Barbel / Sea-trout / Salmon / Single Species Clones, Flyboy Fashion Victims, sundry Me-too Monsters, old-tackle collectors and dealers, tackle-biz shopboys, travel agents, anyone suddenly smiling too much on seeing me, those who wear Camo etc, which I did several years ago, yes - oh yes - it's wonderful!
 
David Parker said:
I think that's a great quote from Voelker.

Perhaps the problem is that for some angling is an escape from the values of the modern world, or at least the mainstream workaday world. And for others, angling is an extension of that world. Some of us go fishing to escape commercialism. Others go seeking it. Some go fishing looking our for all aspects of wildlife they'll encounter on the way, others in the single minded pursuit of a particular species, sometimes an individual named fish.

This does test the limits of what it means to have a 'brotherhood' to pick up on Neil's point. A brotherhood implies a set of common interests, but are we really so similar? Paul isn't (perhaps) having a dig at us all, setting himself apart from 'the herd', but maybe the values *some* of us continue to inject into angling, making it not the thing it used to be. There's perhaps more differences than similarities between anglers now, and that might explain why it has been so difficult to maintain any united front when it comes to national movements and committees etc. And the 'otter' issue continues to divide, as this and other threads have shown for this very reason. We all seek such different things from our sport.

I must admit I am a strange mixture of traditionalist and pragmatist myself. I sympathise with Paul B, but I also understand the frustration others feel as they see the barbel disappear from their favourite rivers. Ultimately though, the pragmatist in me fears any head on fight with otters that isn't part of a much broader debate about a balanced ecology isn't going to do us any favours at all. In fact, probably a lot of harm.

And then there the obvious fact that deep down, however impassioned we are about our sport, at the end of the day that is all it is: a pastime. It isn't life or death. It isn't even about putting food on the table in the way it once would have been.

So if you end up taking this debate into the mainstream and like fox hunting it ends up mixed up with public opinion, we need to remember that fishing for sport is a privilege and shouldn't be considered an automatic right. Otherwise we'll look like the bunch of rather short-sighted and self-motivated people Paul B has described above.
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Absolutely spot on mate, particularly the last two paragraphs.

When you consider there are somewhere in the region of 3m fishermen in this country, to expect everyone to agree on everything fishing related is naivety in the extreme.

I'm certainly in the Voelker camp, when it comes down to the reasons I go fishing.
 
Paul Boote said:
Off we again, in the true spirit of Izaak Walton. I'll repeat three or four of the more repeatable words my pal used last night for such point-scoring fractious sorts: "Hard-bitten little people". And with this I leave you; to be patronising, you really aren't worth my time or consideration.
Click to expand...

How convenient to have such support from a 'pal', and such a ready scource of quotes too.
Theres a little lad that lives over the road from me, he wants a puppy, but his parents won't allow it, so he has an imaginary puppy that he calls Sparky, this gives him great comfort, he even 'shows' the puppy to strangers, and they all agree what a lovely puppy Sparky is...bless.;)
 
neil smart said:
how convenient to have such support from a 'pal', and such a ready scource of quotes too.
Theres a little lad that lives over the road from me, he wants a puppy, but his parents won't allow it, so he has an imaginary puppy that he calls sparky, this gives him great comfort, he even 'shows' the puppy to strangers, and they all agree what a lovely puppy sparky is...bless.;)
Click to expand...

Laughing face!!!
 
Neil Smart said:
How convenient to have such support from a 'pal', and such a ready scource of quotes too.
Theres a little lad that lives over the road from me, he wants a puppy, but his parents won't allow it, so he has an imaginary puppy that he calls Sparky, this gives him great comfort, he even 'shows' the puppy to strangers, and they all agree what a lovely puppy Sparky is...bless.;)
Click to expand...


The old BFW saw a lot of stuff posted like your stuff above, Neil Smart. It became intolerable for all concerned; the owners had to abandon the board and start afresh. I don't think that I am the only member here a little concerned that this incarnation of BFW Forums might be going the same way - for those with short memories, that is personal and just plain nasty.
 
Neil Smart said:
Again you besmirch in a sly way your angling brothers, is it any wonder then that you attract such comment. You take comfort in like minded indivuduals that further massage you already hugely inflated ego that seems set to explode at any moment.
Perhaps some real advice the down to earth type is needed Paul, you are a man that fishes, and fishes well, but please can we not have a little true perspective, you do not own the frahchise as to why we all fish, we already know, and most are nearly not so foolish as you would wish us to be.
Click to expand...

Well Neil I hope this isn't your old Yuku profile; http://leo.barbelfishingworld.yuku.com/

If it is not I apologise, if it is, you two faced tw*t, remind me again of your view point regards our angling brethren, the carp angler.
 
Paul Boote said:
The old BFW saw a lot of stuff posted like your stuff above, Neil Smart. It became intolerable for all concerned; the owners had to abandon the board and start afresh. I don't think that I am the only member here a little concerned that this incarnation of BFW Forums might be going the same way - for those with short memories, that is personal and just plain nasty.
Click to expand...

No it's not nasty Paul, it merely illustrates a boy and his fantasies, surely you can see the humour in that.
But you talk of me as if I was a problem on this Forum, and yet Paul you are the master I have seen your work, I can assure you and all others I do care about this site and would not wish to diminish it at all. That is why I post back to you, after all what is good for the Goose.
I have said my piece and that is that I just hope one day you will be a bit more tolerant of those that do not possess your skills both as a fisher or wordsmith.
 
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