Stillwater barbel fishing 2010

[Chris Turnbull]

Thanks Jason! I'll blame it on the cold I seem to be going down with.

 

[Simon King]

Really Simon? I am aware that law in employment differs from the law covering amatuer organsiations but given an organisation with no requirements or conditions for joining having ousted someone on account on some paltry reason, I still believe they'd find themselves in hot water.

Regards,


Damian

I looked it up for us both. Voluntary workers are not covered by the discrimination laws, nor are they subject to the employment protections regarding termination.

No Contract of Employment, of course!

So, any volunteer can be kicked out, no justification, no comeback. Unless, of course, there are internal rules relating to this in that particular organisation/society/what-have-you.

So there we are.

Where shall we start and with whom?

 

[Mike Osborne]

Ray,

Rich..I have to inform you that another BS Founder Member has posed and posted the relevant question to the BS Chairman Steve Pope on his own website, as you advised and requested.

For yours and everyones information, the post was 'Deleted' by Steve... pronto.
Many thanks for the advice!

Ray

Ray,

I have deleted my previous comment here as I find that it was misguided, believing you were refering to the BS Forum and not SP' own website. My apologies for the misunderstanding,

Kind Regards,

Mike Osborne

 

[Adrian Williams]

Quote Damian; "A democratically run organisation like the Society"

And; "I suspect it might be because if they did, they'd have to answer to a court of some description on account of their actions being discriminatory"

And; "The only issue here as being indicative of the Society's position regarding the stocking of stillwater barbel is the Society's partnership with Dynamite Baits, and like I say is most likely based anything but sound economics and income. It could be argued that with the emergence of information that the water sponsored by Dynamites has likely only had one stocking of barbel, long before Dynamites were there, even that is hardly worth discussing now."

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I go fishing for 24 hours and come home to an episode of The Twilight Zone.

I think the first is self-answering.

THe second, being kicked out of a Voluntary Position in an Amatuer Organisation is hardly in the Legal Realm where no renumeration is involved, old chap?

The third........well, are you saying that "what with it only being stocked just the once and sooooo long ago now, why should anyone really bother with making a fuss about it these days, yeah, I know it was a bit of a sticking point at the time, and yeah, I know we based a whole cornerstone of the Barbel Societies Constitution and made it a Cause Celebre such that our Official Motto "Swim Wild, Swim Free" was coined on the back of the outrage that some of us felt about barbel being stocked in stillwater, well yes this particular stillwater actually, although the wind does move it about a bit when it blows a bit, so it's not really still (ho, ho) but hey, it's all water under the bridge now (ho, ho) and we really shouldn't be making a fuss cause those nice Dynamite people who carry on the good work of running THE stillwater barbel fishery are reeally jolly nice chaps and give us a bit of bait which is all "alright" then, no harm done and let sleeping dogs lie and hey ho it's only 6 weeks to the river season again, what!

Rhymes with Rollox mate. With ruddy great bells on.

I am extremely disappointed.

I also went fishing yesterday and would like to thank Simon for saving me the bother of answering Damien.

 

[Adrian Williams]

I was exchanging words with a well known Trent angler that doesn't post here any more.

He is very much anti close season and thinks it should be abolished.

He was adamant that one of the Barbel groups agrees with his view but would not expand his thoughts. I know the BS are against the abolition. Anyone views from the Barbel Catchers or Barbel Specialist members?

Thanks

Graham

Hi Graham, how is Ade these days?
I think I can clear this up for you, I was at a SPECIALISTS meeting where Ade Kiddel was doing a presentation, in the course of his presentation he handed out a sheet of paper with a couple of questions on it in the form of a poll, one of which was asking what the audience thought of the retention of the close season, the completed questionnaires were collected up and at the end of the meeting it was announced that the audience was in favour of abolishing the close season.
It was never official policy of the barbel specialists, simply a straw poll of the audience.

 

[Graham Elliott]

Thanks for clearing that up Titus.

Of course as you are well aware my mate Ade Kiddell is not what I would class as a well know Trent angler. He is however a top angler as well as being well known (a rare combination).

I was thinking of one that actually lives quite a bit nearer the Trent than Norfolk would like it banned and it must be what you describe as behind his reasoning to be so vocal in his calls for the abolition.

Just shows what gossip and heresay can do....

I had just thought that someone in a key position with the Specialists would have liked to comment, having known the individuals desire for it to be banned, maybe to support the removal of the Close season as well or if disagreeing to actually say so.

The BS and the Barbel Catchers specifically want to retain the close season on rivers. Thats on record, whether it's something that makes people want to join or not.


Graham

 

[Simon King]

My pleasure, Ade.

And now for something completely different..........................


How many posters on here know the REAL ORIGINAL reason behind the BS anti-stillwater barbel campaign leading to the adoption of "Swim Wild, Swim Free"?

Cause it sure as suigar hasn't been touched upon so far..............!


I have been speaking to someone who was a Founder Member (doesn't post on here and is no longer a BS member) of the BS and was quite shocked at what I was told. As in "shocked" that the campaign has become what it is, completely divorced from the original reason, but everyone takes it for granted while apparently knowing nothing of its roots.

Any takers?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Simon tell us more you know you want to.

Alan

 

[Simon King]

Give it a couple of days for enough people to see it and a chance to respond first...............I really don't know which posters on here go back that far? I'm sure one or two do...........

Be interesting to find out.

 

[Rich Frampton]

Might as well get on with it Simon......you'll end up doing that anyway no matter what anyone says on here.
I wasn't around but I'm sure I'll find out over the weekend....

Have a great weekend......are you going to Hinkley??
Rich.

 

[Ray Walton]

Hi Mike...I did not see your withdrawn post on BFW so I can’t comment on what was present!
As Steve will not answer any questions and queries posed by the BS members and BFW members perhaps you could on his behalf or as a fellow BS committee member.
Steve Popes Sponsorship and Endorsement of products has been known all along by the committee and therefore ‘sanctioned’ by the Committee, thus ‘ignoring’ BS policy regarding Sponsorship and Endorsements, bringing the Barbel Society name and its members and all outside supporters of the cause into disrepute which is overall damaging and embarrassing to everyone.
Obviously Steve’s Dynamite Sponsorship must have been discussed at previous committee meetings, but it is not mentioned in any committee meeting minutes of such discussion or has been left or edited out deliberately as not to inform members interest.
Can you please State the ‘Official’ BS stance on this matter as the committee has seemingly refused other sponsors/endorsements that have been seen to be a ‘no go’ area and against BS policy!

As Damian states
“Yes, the Society in the past have greatly benefitted from their (it has to be said small scale) partnership with Dynamite Baits - having been suppliers of not a small amount of bait, particularly with the Junior Section I believe. It is no doubt, a mutually beneficial partnership, and one which I hope for the sake of areas benefitting continued.
It is no surprise that this partnership receives less of your attention than the much more important one of Steve Pope and his use of Dynamite's baits. Ultimately, it is one for Steve Pope to debate as an individualâ€.

He won't Damian, and therefore i have asked Mike.
Also another recent questioning post has been deleted from his own website blog!

It would also be interesting to know if Steve’s sponsorship and endorsement of Dynamite Baits is a ‘financial’ driven thing to where he is receiving not just a ‘bit of bait’, but a large sum of cash with regard to his work in promoting the wares.
In my opinion, I am pretty sure that the only reason that Dynamite have taken on Steve is because of his BS position as dictator of the BS membership to where a lot of the products are mentioned in his recent articles and aimed directly or indirectly at BS captive members and others. This is at the expense of BS policy interests and the BS reputation regarding the conservation issue over Stillwater Barbel
Again Mike, it would be in your interest to raise this issue yourself at the AGM on Sunday as all the committee is seemingly implicated in this and you need to explain your actions and clear the air to the members.
Best Regards…Ray

 

[Rich Frampton]

 

[Simon King]

I'm glad Ray has brought the issue of stillwater barbel on to here, imo these are captive born fish and they survive as well as any other species of fish in similar surroundings. From a personal point of view in 2010 I could not give a hoot about barbel stocked in stillwaters.

However; that was not always the case; back when the Society was formed many of the barbel which found their way into commercial fisheries were taken from the rivers, I was approached by the owner of the Beeches fishery at Madley on several occasions in the early 90's while fishing on the Severn in Ironbridge and offered free fishing in return for the contents of my keepnet.
It was this theft of wild fish which drove Andy Orme (et al) to wage war on the then Daiwa now Dynamite, Makins fishery.

As for the other business, if Makins fishery still stocks barbel and the society is still preaching that it is against the stocking of barbel into stillwaters then Steve Popes continued association with Dynamite is clearly a conflict of interests, a point I actually made on the old forum 6 months ago.

Actually, my apologies, it HAS been aired, but no-one made any comment. It's been a long thread and my new reading glasses weren't available then.

Yes, the original reason for "waging war" was the ALLEGED theft of river barbel from Andy Orme's fishery. The reason my friend resigned from the BS was that a letter was circulated asking BS members to join this "war" and force the Stillwater Fishery out of business, but since NO PROOF was forthcoming to back up his claims, it was felt an unjustifiable and unreasonable action. And quite so.

From there, the rest of the "Swim Wild, Swim Free" pseudo-scientific stuff we now see trundled out at every reference was tacked on to the back of it as justification by Revisionism.

Thanks Ade, for putting this up, I think a few more people should digest its significance, though I doubt many will change their views, so entrenched in Myth has the whole thing become.

The question that sits in my mind is, if barbel had been stocked on a purely "legal" basis to those stillwaters at the time, would the current anti-stillwater campaign and its attendant "reasoning" ever have come into being?

Personally, I think not.

What a different Society it would be now, were that the case......................?

 

[Chris Jones]

Here's a thought. Is it just the EA that are breeding/rearing barbel? If it is, might it be the case that commercial fisheries buying barbel from the EA may actually be partially subsidising the stocking of barbel by the EA into rivers?

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Here's a thought. Is it just the EA that are breeding/rearing barbel? If it is, might it be the case that commercial fisheries buying barbel from the EA may actually be partially subsidising the stocking of barbel by the EA into rivers?

In fact the EA no longer sell their Calverton fish to anyone. Those days are long gone!

 

[Simon King]

It would also be interesting to know if Steve’s sponsorship and endorsement of Dynamite Baits is a ‘financial’ driven thing to where he is receiving not just a ‘bit of bait’, but a large sum of cash with regard to his work in promoting the wares.
I
Best Regards…Ray

I'm only guessing Ray, but I think it highly unlikely. I know a few anglers with similar sponsorship deals, bigger "names" than Steve , and there's certainly no "cash" on top. Just bait and a few frree "products".

 

[Chris Jones]

In fact the EA no longer sell their Calverton fish to anyone. Those days are long gone!

Shame, perhaps it would make stillwater barbel marginally more acceptable. I'm intrigued to know how many breeders are actually producing barbel commercially. There must be some if it's not the EA supplying the commercial fisheries.

 

[Simon King]

Well Chris, I can buy them legally through my aquatic wholesalers, they're on the lists from time to time. I'd guess they're produced abroad, but I'll endeavour to find out their origin and that they are barbus barbus.

And no, I haven't bought any so far.......................

 

[Chris Turnbull]

There are several fish farms producing them. Click Google?

 

[Ray Walton]

I'm only guessing Ray, but I think it highly unlikely. I know a few anglers with similar sponsorship deals, bigger "names" than Steve , and there's certainly no "cash" on top. Just bait and a few frree "products".

Simon..So do I and it is a five figure deal + bait and a few frree "products"