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Otter Devestation??

Neil Smart said:
God knows the devastation the signal is having on recruitment of fish stocks, perhaps we might be overlooking the real enemies here?

I am not burying my head in the sand, just trying to think beyond what we perceive as the only problem, and perhaps at a problem that we have a chance of controlling, unlike the Otter.
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Totally agree Neil. Without the facts and figures that nobody has to prove the devastation some people talk of nothing will ever happen regarding the Otter and I for one am glad about that. Don't get me wrong - I'm well aware some sections of a handful of rivers have had a rough time - but devastated? Take the Great Ouse as an example. Yes a handful of very big, and no doubt very old, fish were eaten from one particular section which no doubt was devastating for the anglers that fished it - but for the whole river? How is it then that there are pictures of big Barbel from the Great Ouse in the angling press almost every week? Back end of last season there was a brace for 30lb reported and it's rumoured that one of it's tributaries has a record shaker swimming about in it. Doesn't sound like a river that's been devastated to me.
 
For those interested, the last survey of otter numbers completed in 2010, and conducted by the ea showed a large increase in numbers of otters in the same location, and river catchments as the large decrease in barbel...This is fact. It is also no coincidence that the rivers showing the least effect were those where otter numbers have not yet increased as much. There are also some recruitment problems. But on the ba example, there have been a few stockings of barbel, who have since up and disappeared! The ea does not deny this and nor do they want to control otter numbers, but they would like reports of the impact being witnessed on our rivers of all predation and recruitment problems, by us. I am arranging for us to do this and shall have more details of what I, with the help of lots of others including you (hopefully) soon.
 
Mike Webb said:
Otter threads do my head in.
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Mine too Mike! Should be banned in my opinion! Let's face it - it's a legally protected species that is the icon of conservation Britain! Having a load of threads on this site calling for culls isn't putting any of us in a good light. Ban 'em Andy! No more Otter threads! :D
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Mine too Mike! Should be banned in my opinion! Let's face it - it's a legally protected species that is the icon of conservation Britain! Having a load of threads on this site calling for culls isn't putting any of us in a good light. Ban 'em Andy! No more Otter threads! :D
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Do understand you Andrew. Anyway, no one's forcing us to comment in these threads!

Oh, why am I then?

:eek:
 
Mike Webb said:
Oh, why am I then?

:eek:
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Because you've logged in a couple of days before the new season starts to see yet another doom mongering Otter thread and it does your head in - fully understandable. Anyway - I've done the math that Dave talked of regarding predators and prey and it turns out Barbel will be extinct by the end of July. I'm also **** at maths by the way but can manage enough to know his 'devastated' local river did a new river record last March nearly 2lb heavier than anything my local has ever done.
 
I can understand how some threads can appear tedious. However, I don't think that we can ignore any threat to our fishing. As a group we have had the otter reintroduction thrust upon us without any discussion or dialogue. Therefore, those responsible shouldn't be surprised if we kick back. Us British are a pretty docile lot and seem to accept whatever is doled out to us. Well, It seems that vested interests are constantly telling us what is good for us and we can't challenge it because of their rules. But the rules seem only to apply one way. If something like this happenend in France, without consultatation, with ALL concerned parties, there would be a swift resolution to the problem. This country really needs getting hold of by the scruff of its neck and sorting out from top to bottom with the "guy" in the street actually having a say in things.
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Because you've logged in a couple of days before the new season starts to see yet another doom mongering Otter thread and it does your head in - fully understandable. Anyway - I've done the math that Dave talked of regarding predators and prey and it turns out Barbel will be extinct by the end of July. I'm also **** at maths by the way but can manage enough to know his 'devastated' local river did a new river record last March nearly 2lb heavier than anything my local has ever done.
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Not taking sides mate, other than to say that barbel were here before us and will probably be here after we've gone.
 
Jim Foxall said:
I can understand how some threads can appear tedious. However, I don't think that we can ignore any threat to our fishing. As a group we have had the otter reintroduction thrust upon us without any discussion or dialogue. Therefore, those responsible shouldn't be surprised if we kick back. Us British are a pretty docile lot and seem to accept whatever is doled out to us. Well, It seems that vested interests are constantly telling us what is good for us and we can't challenge it because of their rules. But the rules seem only to apply one way. If something like this happenend in France, without consultatation, with ALL concerned parties, there would be a swift resolution to the problem. This country really needs getting hold of by the scruff of its neck and sorting out from top to bottom with the "guy" in the street actually having a say in things.
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I think we have to learn to ignore the 'threat'. We're not true stakeholders in this issue. We're not predators and we're not prey.
Getting sucked in.
 
Jim Foxall said:
I don't think that we can ignore any threat to our fishing. QUOTE]

Thing is Jim - there are so many where do we focus our attention? An Otter might eat one or two fish a day - pollution could wipe out an entire river in a few hours. Join the fight you can win, the one the entire population agrees with - cleaner, healthier rivers. Fighting for a cull of Otters is pointless as no one has the evidence to back the claims and apart from a small minority of anglers nobody wants a cull of Otters - knocked out in the first round on that one.
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Purely hypothetical of course, but if you could choose one of the following, which would it be?
Excellent river enviroment
No cormorants
No signal crayfish
Or no otters.

I thought about it and figured that having good water quality and habitat would increase fish recruitment, but would increase the cormorant and otter population.
No cormorants would benefit otters and smaller fish.
No otters would safeguard some of our bigger fish.
No signals would benefit all fish and invertibrate species and at least allow an angler a chance to present a static bait.
If it was just one choice it has to be the signal crayfish for me.

Going back to page one of this thread, I would still like to see a record of visible otter kills and sitings from river and stillwater anglers as we are surely some of the best eyes and ears the EA, AT and various river trusts can hope for.
 
Dave Taylor said:
Purely hypothetical of course, but if you could choose one of the following, which would it be?
Excellent river enviroment
No cormorants
No signal crayfish
Or no otters.

I thought about it and figured that having good water quality and habitat would increase fish recruitment, but would increase the cormorant and otter population.
No cormorants would benifit otters and smaller fish.
No otters would safeguard some of our bigger fish.
No signals would benifit all fish and invertibrate species and at least allow an angler a chance to present a static bait.
If it was just one choice it has to be the signal crayfish for me.

Going back to page one of this thread, I would still like to see a record of visible otter kills and sitings from river and stillwater anglers as we are surely some of the best eyes and ears the EA, AT and various river trusts can hope for.
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What is an excellent river environment Dave?
Cormorants and otters are native and natural predators. The signal will be regarded as native in a matter of years. Loads of so-called native species are introduced, e.g. rabbits, garden snails, sycamore. Almost all species of plants and animals have only been here for a matter of twelve to fifteen thousand years. Prior to that most of the island was under about a kilometre of ice.
 
I can't be certain but pretty sure otters were here before barbel
 
Mike Webb said:
I can't be certain but pretty sure otters were here before barbel
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Maybe Mike , but I do'nt go fishing for otters,..call me selfish if you like:rolleyes:

My question was simplified I know, but I certainly agree with Alex G. about the signals which have had a massive impact on Thames valley venues.
I do accept that there is no going back on many of the afformentioned issues though.:)
 
Dave Taylor said:
Maybe Mike , but I do'nt go fishing for otters,..call me selfish if you like:rolleyes:

My question was simplified I know, but I certainly agree with Alex G. about the signals which have had a massive impact on Thames valley venues.
I do accept that there is no going back on many of the afformentioned issues though.:)
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I'd never call you selfish Dave. Not to your face anyway :) .

Think of the impact rabbits must have had when they were introduced. We need to eat them all Dave (signals), or as many as we can. They are yummy. Our native crayfish have had it long term I suspect. The rationale for discouraging capture of signals is flawed in my opinion. Or at least the strategy.
 
Mike Webb said:
Is that translatable into words Dave?

:)
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It was restaurateurs who applied for a licience to stock the bl##dy things in the first place!!
Some genius [ who also thought that they would be yummy ] , made the dreadfull decision to grant it.
Given that I'm a tad tense watching the game at the moment,...I would consider that a mild translation!:D
 
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