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Otter Devestation??

The Bristol Avon (among other rivers) has been decimated. General rule of thumb - the smaller the river the more potential danger from cuddly 'O'
 
Definitely an otter, taking the throat out and leaving the rest.

I have heard that Nell Bridge carp fishery near Banbury is closing due to being wiped out by otters. A water full of 20 pound commons that anglers travelled far and wide to fish :(
 
I have put a couple more pictures on the link....After watching some smaller fish in the shallows going through spawning/chasing motions, it was hard to stomach this sight. My friend had noticed the fish at the bottom of the river and thought it may have been tethered by illegal fishers, but we found it to be something else!
 
Guys, while I am with you on this one (and lord knows I have moaned on enough about the otter issue), I think we need a little reality check here. What we have in this instance is ONE dead barbel, and while it certainly looks like an otter kill, we don't even know that much for sure.

OK, it is part of the bigger picture, to us it is yet another instance of the problem many of us are worried about. And yes, the totally unnatural predator/prey imbalance man's interference has brought about IS a serious issue. However, as far as the average non angling man/woman in the street is concerned, that is just one dead fish...no big deal.

I just think that we should seriously consider the fact that 'others' read these threads, some of whom wish anglers in general harm. If they see us going totally OTT over 'one dead fish', as they will word it....then sooner or later they are going to beat us around the head with this sort of stuff, use it as ammunition to belittle and throw scorn on our case when the time comes to make a presentation to the government.

I do think we need to take care what we say on forums.

Cheers, Dave.
 
I fully agree dave, there is absolutely nothing we can do but harm our own reputation on this one. I don't understand why people don't get it. If you want to fight to improve our rivers, fight for something that can be won.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Guys, while I am with you on this one (and lord knows I have moaned on enough about the otter issue), I think we need a little reality check here. What we have in this instance is ONE dead barbel, and while it certainly looks like an otter kill, we don't even know that much for sure.

OK, it is part of the bigger picture, to us it is yet another instance of the problem many of us are worried about. And yes, the totally unnatural predator/prey imbalance man's interference has brought about IS a serious issue. However, as far as the average non angling man/woman in the street is concerned, that is just one dead fish...no big deal.

I just think that we should seriously consider the fact that 'others' read these threads, some of whom wish anglers in general harm. If they see us going totally OTT over 'one dead fish', as they will word it....then sooner or later they are going to beat us around the head with this sort of stuff, use it as ammunition to belittle and throw scorn on our case when the time comes to make a presentation to the government.

I do think we need to take care what we say on forums.

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

I disagree totally. What do you want us to say, " Ooh, look, there must be otters here, how lovely!" ? Far too much is made of public reaction. Why should we tread on eggshells around people who have no knowledge of, or interest in angling? Why should we be apologetic for getting upset over fisheries being ruined? The way things are going the rivers will soon be unviable as fisheries anyway so why do we have to appease those who have no time for us as it is?
Otters are only part of the problem but they are a very real part.

Dave, you say it's just one dead fish. Would you take a different stance if it was several dead fish? I don't understand the difference.
 
Lets all bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away.

The Otters will die anyway once they've eaten all the fish, which won't be too long.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Otters are reaching the point where they are not an endangered species at all, and do not deserve to be protected like they are.

The EA should be allowed to start culling them where there are problems before all the rivers end up like the GT Ouse, Kennet, Bristol Avon.

Cormorants and Goosanders should be controlled aswell, at present there are too many predators and nothing being done.

The problem is spreading, river by river, it's not going to get better, it will get much much worse.
 
Alex Gowney said:
I disagree totally. What do you want us to say, " Ooh, look, there must be otters here, how lovely!" ? Far too much is made of public reaction. Why should we tread on eggshells around people who have no knowledge of, or interest in angling? Why should we be apologetic for getting upset over fisheries being ruined? The way things are going the rivers will soon be unviable as fisheries anyway so why do we have to appease those who have no time for us as it is?
Otters are only part of the problem but they are a very real part.

Dave, you say it's just one dead fish. Would you take a different stance if it was several dead fish? I don't understand the difference.
Click to expand...

Good post Alex.

Cheers
Bob
 
Alex and Darren, I agree with most of what you say....I thought that was clear from what I said in the post you are referring to, and my stance on this issue in the past.

What I am saying is we DO need to have Joe public on our side on this issue if possible, however unpalatable that may seem to you guys. There are simply not enough anglers to force the government to act on an issue as contentious as this one...the public 'Ahhh/cute/cuddly/furry' factor is far too strong for that to work. Even if all anglers were in agreement on this one (and clearly they are not)...there would not be enough of us by a huge margin to overcome such powerful public feelings on this.

You are obviously right...something absolutely does need to be done about this issue. The current ill thought out protective measures that make controlling predators illegal has brought about a predator/prey imbalance that will do fisheries massive harm. We know that...but the vast majority of the voters in this country do not...and neither do they care. Unless we can change that, then we stand absolutely no chance of forcing the government to change these regulations.

It was a knee jerk reaction to public opinion that brought about these daft regulations, so you obviously have to try to change public opinion to get them reversed. We do NOT need to 'bury our heads in the sand' as you sarcastically say...we need to support the AT who are very involved in presenting our side of this issue (in a calm and effective manor) to government, and fighting hard to bring around the changes we want. Unless well help them in their efforts, we will be lost. Unless we can show ourselves to be broadly united on this and other issues, then we will remain an irrelevant, marginalised bunch of nobodies.

My previous post was not meant to imply that one fish is unimportant, nor that my opinions on this matter would be different if there were several 'apparently' otter gutted fish on display. It was meant to point out that if we give the antis who read these boards the ammunition they need, then they will build a case based on such posts. They will claim that we are irrelevant rabble rouser's, the type who throw all of their toys out of the pram over 'one dead fish'. Those will not be my words, they will be theirs. They will be based on the pictures and initial posts in this thread...and they will probably make a fairly compelling case of that to present to Joe public. Once again we will be shown to the public to be a tiny group of eccentric nutters, people who habitually fight amongst themselves, and thus are not worth taking any notice of. As a result, NOTHING will get done....as ever.

No harm in discussing these issues in a calm, reasonable manner...but we must be seen as people who care not just about out hobby in a selfish manner, but about it's relevance in modern society, and why this issue is important to our ecology as a whole.

Just my opinions of course.

Cheers, Dave.
 
It seems true to me that what everyone wants is the same thing, but the beauty of us as discerning human beings, is that we shall vary in our opinions on how to reach the end which serves the means. (Or vice versa, not sure).
What about the poor old Water Vole? He is protected by the same wildlife and countryside act of 1981 that the Otter is, yet he is suffering a massive decline in numbers, while the Otter is seeing an unprecedented rise in it`s numbers.....Nearly everytime I have found Otter prints, I have found (what I believe to be, from picture comparisons) Water Vole prints! Quite a coincidence as the Otter is partial to this creature. Is this not a contradiction in terms? Both protected, yet one loves to eat the other!!
Not to mention folks.....(but I will), the noticable decline in wildfowl numbers around many stretches of river where the Otter now thrives. And the many emptied eggshells on the banks nearby.
This is not just an issue for anglers, and the E.A. will eventually have to take note!!
So I suggest everyone this seasons collects whatever evidence they can - detrimental or otherwise - and keeps collating records and sending them to the relevant "authorites", and see what we can do together!!!
 
Great post shaun. The sad thing is people who have no idea of how a true ecological harmony works post stuff like "look at the cute seal eating the very mature pike/barbel/salmon etc" the otter sadly is treated with the same status unfortunately. Look at the red kite, give it five to ten years and they will be on the list to shoot. That muppet chris packham needs a good ......erm talking to.
 
The only chance we have of things changing is not getting Joe Public on our side as that will never happen, it is for the RSPB to wake up to the devastation otters are causing to the birds on the lakes and rivers. If they start campaigning then Joe Public might listen.
 
I know this is going over my own tracks, again, but when I was in angling politics and this issue first reared its head over the damage otters were doing to carp fisheries, my particular concern was for the future of "specialist angling" on rivers. I made a pitch for rivers at a SAGC/SAA meeting when I said rivers could be afforded no protection what so ever and that my fear was the future decimation of specimen sized fish in rivers. Sad to say my concerns fell pretty much on deaf ears mostly because other politico's were quite right in thinking we could have done nothing about it anyway.

Bob Gill is 100% correct. Smaller rivers with their smaller densities of specimen sized fish will have stocks of such sized fish virtually extinct with a few short years. No? Its already happening on many rivers already.
 
Steve M Brown said:
Yep, the RSPB really don't like Otters, they're on our side all the way. :rolleyes:

The RSPB: News: A whole lotta otter

Steve
Click to expand...

Strange that the RSPB regard mink as a threat on reserves then put the flags out when an otter turns up!:rolleyes:

Unless the mindset of jo public changes from regarding fish as just otter food and being out of sight out of mind, the country's fisheries and garden ponds are in for some challenging times.

I agree with Shaun N. that any 'otter damage' should be documented. Trouble is that not all kills are left on the bank, and those that are, often get scavanged and buried by foxes before we stumble across them.
What 'authority' do you suggest we send collated evidence to Shaun?
EA Fisheries?
Perhaps a few pics. presented to a few riparian owners who charge a kings ransom in rent might start ringing some bells.:rolleyes:
dt:)
 
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