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The Otters Next Victim

Chris Turnbull said:
Geoff, If you fish a healthy river with no fry-recruitment problems then the presence of otters may not pose a serious threat to its stock numbers. However, if your river already has fry-recruitment problems then the presence of otters will impact on the fishery, and possibly do so very seriously. The EA have accepted this on the Wensum and have overcome their own reluctance to restock, because despite all efforts to improve fish habitat, the otters are eating more fish that the river can naturally replace.

I know nothing of the fishing in North Yorkshire. I'd be interested to know what you mean when you say you are enjoying the best fishing in generations?..... if you are saying that there are lots more fish around, then I'd say count your blessings. If you mean that the fish are bigger than ever?.... then I'd suggest that diminishing competition is responsible for this, which suggests that the rot is already setting in. There could be all sorts of reasons for this, with otter predation being at least partly responsible.
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Hi Chris,

I would suggest that it is more likely that the fella is just another member of the little clique who delight in controversy. They revel in the mischief they can stir up by continually presenting the opposite viewpoint to that popularly held by the vast majority of the members...whether or not they actually believe in the viewpont they are claiming to represent :rolleyes:

Cheers, Dave.
 
Europhobes and "We reserve the right to kill what we damned well like in our own country" types might find this - http://tinyurl.com/2bh8qwc - of interest. I can see Brussels being inundated by replies from all sorts of huffers and puffers.

Off you go.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Hi Chris,

I would suggest that it is more likely that the fella is just another member of the little clique who delight in controversy. They revel in the mischief they can stir up by continually presenting the opposite viewpoint to that popularly held by the vast majority of the members...whether or not they actually believe in the viewpont they are claiming to represent :rolleyes:

Cheers, Dave.
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Dave, I suspect you are right about that. I am not interested in participating in this sort of immature behavior though as life is too short and the issues too important, so I've given him the benefit of the doubt. It's up to him to show if he is worth it or not?
 
David Gauntlett said:
Hi Chris,

I would suggest that it is more likely that the fella is just another member of the little clique who delight in controversy. They revel in the mischief they can stir up by continually presenting the opposite viewpoint to that popularly held by the vast majority of the members...whether or not they actually believe in the viewpont they are claiming to represent :rolleyes:

Cheers, Dave.
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Dave, seeing as my opinion differs from that of the "vast majority", I can only assume that this must is directed toward me, amongst others.

Dreadfully sorry if my views don't match yours but I do believe you, like many are like a flock of easily led sheep.

If a big name/respected angling figure says, "they've all been ottered".
Seems to me most in this sport take their word as gospel, why, probably because in all honesty, they trust to much in what a big name says and they have actually no real knowledge as to what the true reason for their sports demise.

I've lost count of the number of times that its been said to me, there are no fish in Oxfordshires river, "they've all been ottered".
Forgetting that on most rivers in this country (Oxfordshire top of the list) mink out number otters tenfold, then all winter many are plundered relentlessly by Cormorants.
Most rivers also fail to escape constant over abstraction, legalised pollution and untold habitat destruction.....

BUT if it makes you feel better blaming a protected species for many of the ills on our rivers, be my guest, I ain't gonna try and change your view point.
Just bear in mind when your river starts running dry, otters don't drink that much!
And when it resembles a stagnent sewage channel, otters despite consuming such huge quantities of fish, don't sh1t that much!

For the record this my actual opinion and not me just attempting to be mischievious.:p
 
Geoff Blakesley said:
''It saddens me that a so called voice for angling cannot suggest more than 'probably due to' and cites declines in sport to 'probably due to' and most recent records that are 17 years old

I look forward to someone explaining why - in spite of otter and various other sightings of predators that I enjoy some of the best fishing in north yorkshire for a generation''

Perhaps you are just a really good angler Geoff :).

I think Chris Turnbull has it right , it's all about things been in balance . To the best of my knowledge most , if not all rivers in NorthYorkshire contain otters . In most of these rivers things are in balance , not too many otters , reasonable fish recruitment , everything is sort of OK . However there are exceptions . Look at the Yorkshire Derwent , irresponsible otter introductions , poor fish recruitment coupled with over abstraction of water and habitat destruction and you have big problems . Stretches of the lower Nidd , Rye and Rye tributaries have suffered a similar fate ,a cataclysmic fall in fish stocks .

It is all about balance between predator and prey and a balance in the environments that they live . As usual humans knock things off kilter and there are consequences , and not just for fish
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Colin Gordon said:
Dave, seeing as my opinion differs from that of the "vast majority", I can only assume that this must is directed toward me, amongst others.

Dreadfully sorry if my views don't match yours but I do believe you, like many are like a flock of easily led sheep.

If a big name/respected angling figure says, "they've all been ottered".
Seems to me most in this sport take their word as gospel, why, probably because in all honesty, they trust to much in what a big name says and they have actually no real knowledge as to what the true reason for their sports demise.

I've lost count of the number of times that its been said to me, there are no fish in Oxfordshires river, "they've all been ottered".
Forgetting that on most rivers in this country (Oxfordshire top of the list) mink out number otters tenfold, then all winter many are plundered relentlessly by Cormorants.
Most rivers also fail to escape constant over abstraction, legalised pollution and untold habitat destruction.....

BUT if it makes you feel better blaming a protected species for many of the ills on our rivers, be my guest, I ain't gonna try and change your view point.
Just bear in mind when your river starts running dry, otters don't drink that much!
And when it resembles a stagnent sewage channel, otters despite consuming such huge quantities of fish, don't sh1t that much!

For the record this my actual opinion and not me just attempting to be mischievious.:p
Click to expand...

Colin,

For heavens sake, when are you guys going to take the trouble to read what people actually say before making such pillocks of yourselves by spouting out such inane drivel.

Let me try to explain it to you in short words, in the hope you can then understand what 'we sheep' are actually saying. Not once has anybody claimed that otters are the only problem, or even the major problem that our barbel face....are you with me so far? NOT ONCE...OK?

We ALL understand and have pointed out to ANYONE that will listen, that pollution in all it's various forms, along with over abstraction, habitat destruction or degredation, and a whole host of other man made madnesses is the root cause of the problem, and that until that basic underlying set of problems is dealt with, we can not progress in any way...OK...still with me?

We also understand, and have said so repeatedly, that the hordes of mink released into the wild by a bunch of well meaning morons have caused absolute havoc, killing ALL wildlife they can get hold of on our waterways, and not just fish. We KNOW that the cormorants forced to come inland to find food, because we have almost emptied their natural hunting grounds, are yet another catastrophy that we have imposed on our poor fish...and really have pointed this out to all and sundry again and again...OK?.... Has that registered yet? We DO understand and deplore ALL of those issues, and have said so time and again....READ POSTS!

What has angered many about the reintroduction of otters is that to do this when they did, at a time when many of our rivers and their fish stocks are teetering on the edge of disaster, was an ill timed folly, forced upon us by yet another bunch of well meaning morons...and in some cases, it could well be the last straw that breaks the camels back.

Otters are LARGE predators, an adult dog otter absolutely dwarfs a mink. Once an apex predator of this size enters a fishery that has already been reduced to a few groups of very large fish by the ravages of pollution and cormorants etc., it does not require a genius to predict what will happen next. If you then add in the fact that otters frequently eat only the gills, brain and other 'tasty bits' of the fish they kill, then again, it doesnt require a massive collection of brain cells to work out that to satisfy the appetites of a familly of critters of that size requires an awfull lot of dead fish...End of !!!

So...do you understand now that nobody is claiming that otters are single handedly going to wipe out the worlds population of barbel. We understand that in a healthy habitat barbel AND otters can live together in ballanced harmony...really, we DO understand that. The problem is that frequently we don't have that healthy environment...in many cases we have populations with ZERO natural recruitment. Zero recruitment + large predators eating existing stock quite quickly equals zero stock....OK?

The problem was in the timing...and we have a right to be upset about that, and we SHOULD speak up and point the madness of the situation out. The otters are here now, and here to stay...we can do nothing about that fact.... but that does NOT mean we have to happy about it, or sit with our heads in the sand in the hope that all the problems will go away while we hide.

OK?

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Colin,

For heavens sake, when are you guys going to take the trouble to read what people actually say before making such pillocks of yourselves by spouting out such inane drivel.

Let me try to explain it to you in short words, in the hope you can then understand what 'we sheep' are actually saying. Not once has anybody claimed that otters are the only problem, or even the major problem that our barbel face....are you with me so far? NOT ONCE...OK?

We ALL understand and have pointed out to ANYONE that will listen, that pollution in all it's various forms, along with over abstraction, habitat destruction or degredation, and a whole host of other man made madnesses is the root cause of the problem, and that until that basic underlying set of problems is dealt with, we can not progress in any way...OK...still with me?

We also understand, and have said so repeatedly, that the hordes of mink released into the wild by a bunch of well meaning morons have caused absolute havoc, killing ALL wildlife they can get hold of on our waterways, and not just fish. We KNOW that the cormorants forced to come inland to find food, because we have almost emptied their natural hunting grounds, are yet another catastrophy that we have imposed on our poor fish...and really have pointed this out to all and sundry again and again...OK?.... Has that registered yet? We DO understand and deplore ALL of those issues, and have said so time and again....READ POSTS!

What has angered many about the reintroduction of otters is that to do this when they did, at a time when many of our rivers and their fish stocks are teetering on the edge of disaster, was an ill timed folly, forced upon us by yet another bunch of well meaning morons...and in some cases, it could well be the last straw that breaks the camels back.

Otters are LARGE predators, an adult dog otter absolutely dwarfs a mink. Once an apex predator of this size enters a fishery that has already been reduced to a few groups of very large fish by the ravages of pollution and cormorants etc., it does not require a genius to predict what will happen next. If you then add in the fact that otters frequently eat only the gills, brain and other 'tasty bits' of the fish they kill, then again, it doesnt require a massive collection of brain cells to work out that to satisfy the appetites of a familly of critters of that size requires an awfull lot of dead fish...End of !!!

So...do you understand now that nobody is claiming that otters are single handedly going to wipe out the worlds population of barbel. We understand that in a healthy habitat barbel AND otters can live together in ballanced harmony...really, we DO understand that. The problem is that frequently we don't have that healthy environment...in many cases we have populations with ZERO natural recruitment. Zero recruitment + large predators eating existing stock quite quickly equals zero stock....OK?

The problem was in the timing...and we have a right to be upset about that, and we SHOULD speak up and point the madness of the situation out. The otters are here now, and here to stay...we can do nothing about that fact.... but that does NOT mean we have to happy about it, or sit with our heads in the sand in the hope that all the problems will go away while we hide.

OK?

Cheers, Dave.
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Amen!!!
 
David, in answer to this;
Colin,

"For heavens sake, when are you guys going to take the trouble to read what people actually say before making such pillocks of yourselves by spouting out such inane drivel."

"Let me try to explain it to you in short words, in the hope you can then understand what 'we sheep' are actually saying. Not once has anybody claimed that otters are the only problem, or even the major problem that our barbel face....are you with me so far? NOT ONCE...OK?"


The first part, if you don't like my "inane drivel", don't read it, simple really?
(and if you didn't read it there would be no reason wasting your time responding to it, equally simple!)

To the second part, some harsh retorts to something that's not "even the major problem";


Ian Grant wrote;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boyne
"The 12 Bore will would be my bet for a win!"

"And that's what a lot of people will start resorting to Andrew, and allegedly all ready have done !

Ian."


Mark Gaskell wrote in response to your post #22;
"Well said that man! Still think it would be more fun shooting em! oops should'nt of said that."


Mark Gaskell wrote;
"War on the blighters!"


Must be me but they do seem harsh responses to a problem that's not even the primary one.....

Also, why so many otter threads if they're not even perceived as "the major problem".

To the rest of your post, bleet away BUT who is listening and to what end?
(I could suggest you're whinging to an audience that will merely agree but basically to no avail)
Personally I'd rather try to deal with the underlying problems and achieve some success, good luck on your crusade cos you're sure going to need it!

Seems a bit ass about face taking on a lesser problem that offers a lesser chance of success rather than a greater threat which offers better odds on getting a result, prudence is certainly not your strong point then??!!
 
David Gauntlett said:
Colin,



the hordes of mink released into the wild by a bunch of well meaning morons have caused absolute havoc,.
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Whilst the mink farmers who provided inadequate fencing and then released their mink, rather than killing them when stupid anti fur campaigners caused a decline in the market, may well have been morons, I don't think they were "well meaning"...or do you believe the urban myth that "animal rights" activits (certainly morons but certainly not well meaning), released all these creatures?
 
But then the world (and particularly England) runs on such "I heard that the X, Ys and Zs did it" prejudice. Only thing now that makes the once-great, now-broken English feel good. Problem is is that the discontent is systemic, and has to be neutralized with ever bigger myths, lies and scapegoats. Now, if you will excuse me, I'm off to find a new one for the populace's ire and displeasure.
 
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