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Can Man Live by Braid Alone.......

Cliff ive never seen mouth damage using a braided hooklink! had i it would be in the bin, same goes for braided mainline...thinner diameter less drag on the line, direct contact with the fish, taps and pulls magnified, just remember to lift into the fish, no need for hard striking otherwise the fish may end up in the field behind you....:) Give it a try..:)
 
Nick Clark said:
Immanuel Kant published the Critique of Pure Reason in 1781. His aim is to determine the limits and scope of pure reason. That is, he wants to know what reason alone can determine without the help of the senses or any other faculties. Metaphysicians make grand claims about the nature of reality based on pure reason alone, but these claims often conflict with one another. Furthermore, Kant is prompted by Hume’s skepticism to doubt the very possibility of metaphysics.

Kant draws two important distinctions: between analytic and synthetic judgments. A particular knowledge we gain from experience, versus the necessary and universal knowledge we have independent of experience. For instance, the judgment “all swans are white†is synthetic because whiteness is not a part of the concept of “swan†(a black swan would still be a swan even though it isn’t white), even if the experience of one (in the late 1700s) was to have only ever seen white swans that doesn't prove that all swans in the 1700s were white.

I'll get my coat.
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OK Nick, time for you to get off the fence, does braid mailine and or hooklengths damage fish....yes or no.....? If "yes" then we must all stop using it immediately. If "no" then some of us can continue to use it. If "maybe" then we should all stop...... just in case.........

Richard
 
I have never seen a fish that I could say was damaged by braid. I haven't seen many damaged fish at all thinking about it. There are god knows how many varieties on the market but personally, I opt for those that are very soft, limp(ish) and sink. I take the view (but have not carried out full robust testing) that these, even when taught, will not harm the fish. Mainline braid can be harsher but my hook lengths are generally a foot or more which presumably limits the chances of it rubbing against a fish. Carp are different of course and mainly because they are chubby. I assume that's why carpers like to use rig tubing (and also because it helps keep the line pinned down).
 
OK Nick, time for you to get off the fence, does braid mailine and or hooklengths damage fish....yes or no.....? If "yes" then we must all stop using it immediately. If "no" then some of us can continue to use it. If "maybe" then we should all stop...... just in case.........

Richard
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What is it with you? I'm sure everyone can make up their own mind without you or me telling them what to do.
 
This is exactly my point. Everyone "making up their own mind" on this issue and others that may harm angling (such as blasting cormorants out of the sky) means that we will always be a disorganised, ill informed, dispirit group of peolple formulating strategy on individual whim rather than reality and fact,

Richard
 
Richard-it's a hobby. Fun, relaxation, stress free, zero angst and a general release from the stresses and straines of daily life. Might I respectfully suggest some perspective here.
 
This is exactly my point. Everyone "making up their own mind" on this issue and others that may harm angling (such as blasting cormorants out of the sky) means that we will always be a disorganised, ill informed, dispirit group of peolple formulating strategy on individual whim rather than reality and fact,

Richard
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Thank you for your wisdom. I'm sure 'we' are all very grateful for your insight.
 
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I can also happily report that I've never seen damage that could be attributed to my own use of braid. However, I wouldn't dream of using a braid intended as mainline for a hooklink. Hooklink braids should have quite different properties to those used as mainline. Still, there's nothing certain in the assumption that mainline braid could damage fish, but I'd acknowledge the possibility. I suspect that the biggest problem with braid mainline is that the ignorant or reckless may fish in an inappropriate way, i.e. too close to snags, relying on the general trend for the breaking strains used to be a fair bit higher than mono.

As with most inanimate objects that end up banned, whatever the scenario, it's the fault of the user if things go wrong.
 
Over many years, I,ve fished for , and caught many different species in all areas of angling, from coarse, sea and game, Ive used all 3 types of line , where suited, and in all this I have only witnessed first hand line damage on a couple of occasions, both involved salmon. They have a tendency to go ballistic when netted, often spinning uncontrollably, wrapping the line around themselves resulting in long, distinct line marks, now the damage occured with both braid and mono, so is one worse than another, no, if anything, the biggest culprit in fish damage is nets, but thats a whole different story!!!!!!
peter
 
Shame on you Peter...how dare you let facts get in the way :D I am all in favour of urban myths myself. One small club I joined many years ago banned hemp on their water, seems the ban had been in place for years. When I enquired about the reason for the ban, one old chap informed me that (A)...it was a drug to the fish, and (B)...it grew when it settled on the bottom. Seems that all the streamer weed in the river was in fact hemp growing....

If I let facts get in the way like you seem to Peter, I would never have believed that informative old chap :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
Oh dear, my rather in your face nature is obviously upsetting some of the more delicate members here and for that I apologise unreservedly but I have never been one who can suffer fools gladly. It’s funny you should mention Paul Boote though as I always enjoyed reading his posts and trying to determine the point he was trying to make. Does anyone know if he still visits the site as he seems to have been awfully quiet for some time?

Anyway back to business and my ongoing failure to make myself understood. If I posted on here that I used a hook link that was significantly stronger than my mainline or that I used rigs that did not allow the lead to fall off if there was a line failure and that I did that because in my experience it did not damage fish then there would be howls of protest and I would be directed to mend my ways immediately. I know this site has been criticised by some idiots for being the “Barbel Police†but why should you not be? BFW is probably one of the most extensive collective repository of knowledge on the subject of Barbel fishing so as such you have a heavy responsibility to make sure things are done correctly by lesser anglers. And let’s face it the average angler is living proof that Darwin may not have had all the answers. The expression that 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the fish is spot on in my experience so it surly falls upon the 10% of experts on BFW to help the less fortunate.

One thing I found interesting was Chris’s comment that using braid in a reckless manner near snags was incorrect. I find the very opposite to be true, if I use mono near snags the stretch allows the fish to get tangled but if I use braid and point the rod directly at the fish then I invariably get it out.

Richard
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
One thing I found interesting was Chris’s comment that using braid in a reckless manner near snags was incorrect. I find the very opposite to be true, if I use mono near snags the stretch allows the fish to get tangled but if I use braid and point the rod directly at the fish then I invariably get it out.
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I'm afraid, Richard, that you've misconstrued my comment. I'll reserve judgement on whether that's been done deliberately. My point was that the reckless will fish even closer/far too close to snags simply because the braid they are using is 20-30lb BS rather than the more common 10-12lb mono.
While that may not be the way you operate, I'm afraid that I know of idiots that buy braid in the mistaken belief that it'll allow them to fish amongst snags safely.
 
Richard, given your commitment to factual analysis, please provide a copy of your research that supports your conclusion that 10% of anglers catch 90% of the fish. I mean you did say that was "spot on" and a man of your obvious standing in the angling world and of course diligence, would presumably only make such a decisive statement when in possession of the full facts. And being a very sensitive soul, I have been very tearful on seeing you refer to me as a lesser angler or someone less fortunate. I will now take the Ferrari out for a spin to try and make sense of all this.
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
Oh dear, my rather in your face nature is obviously upsetting some of the more delicate members here and for that I apologise unreservedly but I have never been one who can suffer fools gladly. It’s funny you should mention Paul Boote though as I always enjoyed reading his posts and trying to determine the point he was trying to make. Does anyone know if he still visits the site as he seems to have been awfully quiet for some time?

Anyway back to business and my ongoing failure to make myself understood. If I posted on here that I used a hook link that was significantly stronger than my mainline or that I used rigs that did not allow the lead to fall off if there was a line failure and that I did that because in my experience it did not damage fish then there would be howls of protest and I would be directed to mend my ways immediately. I know this site has been criticised by some idiots for being the “Barbel Police†but why should you not be? BFW is probably one of the most extensive collective repository of knowledge on the subject of Barbel fishing so as such you have a heavy responsibility to make sure things are done correctly by lesser anglers. And let’s face it the average angler is living proof that Darwin may not have had all the answers. The expression that 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the fish is spot on in my experience so it surly falls upon the 10% of experts on BFW to help the less fortunate.

One thing I found interesting was Chris’s comment that using braid in a reckless manner near snags was incorrect. I find the very opposite to be true, if I use mono near snags the stretch allows the fish to get tangled but if I use braid and point the rod directly at the fish then I invariably get it out.

Richard
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What is a "lesser angler"
 
Graham, you need to apply the definition clearly set out by Richard. If on any given fishing session you find that you are one of the 90% that have only caught 10% of the fish on that day and that stretch of water etc then de facto you are a lesser angler. Please don't ask me what happens if you just get lucky and randomly get into the 10% that have caught 90% of the fish on one particular session. Richard will know though. Cheers.
 
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