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Can Man Live by Braid Alone.......

R

Richard Hamlyn

No Longer a Member
I’m sure this will have been aired before on this forum but as a new guy on here I would like to get peoples thoughts on braid mainline. I have used braid exclusively for my Barbel fishing pretty much from day 1. Initially I used to use a 20’ mono leader because the received wisdom was that braid only had to look at a rock or a snag and it would part. My experience has led me to believe that this is untrue and I now use braid on its own. I found that there is a certain type of snag / rock / swan muscle / shopping trolley or whatever that cuts your line like a knife and it does not make a fig of difference what you are using…. its going to be cut. However in the snagged fish scenarios where I can actually feel the line rubbing over the obstruction and having brought the fish back to it and failed to get it out then leaving it for a few minutes to (hopefully) swim out I have not found any problems with braid. I like the ability to feel everything when dragging a lead about when looking for features and the fact that the lower resistance to the current means I need less lead to hold. I use Chimera II’s and find that the fight is not overly harsh with braid although I will concede that after removing the mono leader it took a little getting used to. In short I am unable to find a down side. However I know a bailiff on the Wye and Usk waters who would ban the stuff on the Wye if he was able to. This guy is a really good thinking angler who loves his river and he would not feel this way without a reason, but I am at a loss to know what it is.
On a related theme I also find that when touch ledgering or rolling then I hit more bites with braid. I also believe that some people think that touch ledgering is a complete waste of time and that a shy bite from a Barbel will turn into a 3 foot twitch if you leave it for another 15 seconds. This is not my experience, on difficult days I get indications which result in a fish if I strike but which do not develop into a rod wrencher if I leave them. I consider that if I do get a wrencher after more than a few minutes from the first knock then it is just as likely to be a different, less cautious, fish as the one that gave me the first indication. Under these circumstances I read a very good article by Tony Miles in CFM where he argued that touch ledgering definitely put fish on the bank that would not have happened if the angler waited for the bite to develop, but that braid offered absolutely no advantage in these situations where there was a relatively short amount of line out. He argues that in a situation where there is not enough load on the mono for it to start to stretch i.e. when a Barbel is mouthing the bait, then mono will deliver exactly the same degree of sensitivity as braid. Once again my experience does not support this. The example I will give is from my match fishing days when the team I fished for were virtually unbeatable on catching skimmers on a local reservoir. Put simply when ledgering with mono we found the fish could pick up and move the bait a considerable distance without any indication on the tip even though there was no discernible load on the line from the bite. When we switched to braid if the fish moved the bait 1/2†then the tip moved 1/2â€â€¦.job done….fish on. Other anglers were getting bites the same as us but were completely unaware. I believe that the same mechanism is in place when touch ledgering for Barbel and that it definitely gives an advantage that results in more bites converted to fish on the bank.

So my question is why are we all not using braid?

Richard
 
Personally because it bleaches quite quickly, starts looking ratty and when a fish charges off i feel alarmingly close to snapping up or wrenching the hook even if it is 40lb b.s. even though that may not be whats going to happen. It still puts me on edge (even whilst piking) and I feel happy with my comfort blanket of mono based stretch. Plus its damn expensive and relative to mono, I don't think the amount of additional fish caught would warrant the added expense. Just my two cents. Good findings though!!
 
Having used both extensively, for barbel I much prefer X=line flurocarbon, a decent compromise, limited stretch ,but greater sensitivity than mono, better abrasion resistance than braid, works for me!
peter
 
Peter, what strain X line please. Do you find it's natural springiness a problem on smaller sized reels? Have used it on big pits and found it hard enough to cope with on them from a line twist point of view.
Sorry if I'm hi-jacking.
 
I don't think there are hard and fast rules in terms of braid v mono. Type of river/ conditions/cost/confidence all play a part. I generally favour braid and precisely because of the touch ledgering point. I had a spell towards the end of last season when I was getting a lot of tentative bites that were hard to hit. I found that be holding the rod and feeling more directly the development of the bite I was able to hit every one and it was always barbel. I didn't try it with mono as my instinct was that I would just get greater feel with braid. And then it was a confidence thing. This is fishing the Kennet by the way.
 
I find it interesting to note the things that have been posted regarding the negative aspects of braid. Peter thinks that X Line Fluoro has better abrasion resistance than braid, which may be true, but how do you know? I am unable to say that braid has better abrasion resistance than fluoro because to the best of my knowledge there is no test that can accurately replicate the fishing situation. Roman thinks it too expensive but my experience is that its lasts so long that it actually works out cheaper than many of the exotic mono’s that are currently in vogue. The fact that it looks ratty is also a plus in my situation because it then matches the rest of my tackle. I’m not trying to convert everybody to braid but I still think that people’s response to it is all too often emotive without any substantive evidence to back it up.

Richard
 
I have used braid for around 15 years. Abrasion resistance can be an issue on rocky, 'sharp' rivers. I'll usually use a stout mono leader in these situations.
For all my local fishing it's braid all the way, Power Pro being my braid of choice. The relatively new Power Pro Slick 8 is great and have been using this, as less noise when going through rings. Done quite a few field comparisons regarding mono and braid and still find myself using braid. More direct bite indication, thinner diameter, less end gear losses and more control - to name some. Even use it for chub.......
Would think twice about carp though, but maybe that's just me.

At the end of the day, use what you are comfortable with and have confidence in, I base my choice on experience.


Cheers
Bob
 
Bob is right Richard- use what you are comfortable and confident with. I am also a fan of Power Pro. I don't think folk are being overly emotive on the relative merits of braid/mono/flurocarbon, they are just speaking from experience and that's all most people can do. I use braid for the reasons that Bob sets out and because I have caught on it then as far as I am concerned it works. The only aspect that has caused me to ponder, is the fact that it doesn't generally sink in the way that other material can and so I have at times been concerned by the need to pin the line down above the lead. But that's a whole new topic....
 
I personally wouldn't entertain the idea of using exotic mono's hahaha just straight old Daiwa Sensor and I think that's a 1000yrds for £8.99 or there abouts - hard to top that for value, even if you spool up two reels once a season that's still five seasons of use out of one spool. You couldn't use the same braid five seasons on the trot I don't think. When you say "emotive" therein lies the problem, if we were all the same and all as reasonably sensible as the next man we probably would be using braid, however sadly this is not the case as we all know :eek: just out question what braid were you using again?
 
Bob Gill said:
For all my local fishing it's braid all the way, Power Pro being my braid of choice. The relatively new Power Pro Slick 8 is great and have been using this, as less noise when going through rings.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, Bob, I shall check out the Power Pro Slick 8 as I want to put braid on my pin. Out of interest, what BS do you favour?
 
Andy,
Depends on the conditions but usually 30lb (0.28mm diameter same as 8lb mono), but also use 20lb (6lb mono diameter) or even the 15lb. Buy by diameter as Europe and USA have different bs ratings - think the 30lb is rated as 30lb in the States but 20kg for Europe - same diameter. Buy mine from the States at roughly £25 for 300yds - inc postage. 150, 600 and 1500 yds also available
Timber brown is my choice of colour.
Magic marker for when colour washes out, Drennan grippa stops (great product) with tungsten putty for pinning down - if required.
Cheers
Bob
 
I have only just made the switch to braid, and cant believe the difference it makes to the fight of the fish. The first fish i hooked, i was almost on the phone to the missus to get her to call the press, thought id hooked the new record! Came in at 9lb!! You can just feel every twitch of the fish's tail.

I absolutely wouldn't swap back to mono - I too have yet to find any downsides as yet.

Also find I get far less problems with losing tackle these days too.... so although its a bit more expensive, saves a fortune in terminal gear!

Chris
 
As has been said, I feel that much of it is down to confidence...and personal experience of a given item. I used braid a lot in carp fishing and like the OP, never had a problem with it's abrasion resistance. On the other hand, Peter prefers X-line because he finds it has better abrasion resistance...which is totally the opposite to my experience with that line (and that of number of my friends). Having said that, my bad experience with X-line was some years back, so perhaps a little unfair to comment without further testing. However, what we found while carp fishing with it at the time was that there were only three good things about X-line. One....it sank like a stone....two, it was difficult to see under water, and lastly it's lack of stretch.

However, ranged against that were the facts that like all fluoro's, it's abrasion resistance was rubbish, and it had a tendency to snap at odd times, for no known reason (I suspect that was down to tiny, unnoticed areas of abrasion). This in turn meant that it was most unwise to go lower than 17lb minimum B/S...and preferable 20lb or more. The other problem was that even at lower B/S's, it was poor line for casting any distance. As I say, it may be better now....I don't know, because I would never use it again...EVER...but Peter obviously likes it. That tells me that either it has improved...or the personal experience thing is even stranger than I thought :)

Cheers, Dave.
 
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I used braid as a kid and couldn't see any downside then. For some reason I abandoned it in my teens, probably on cost. Since I got back to course fishing - after a long spell on the finest Scottish salmon rivers - I have used nothing but braid for all types of fishing. It's tough, will put hooks out of willow trees, doesn't degrade with UV and doesn't come of the reel in coils. I just love the stuff. There may be an issue on rocks/boulders, but in all probability these snags would damage any line.
 
Bob Gill said:
Andy,
Depends on the conditions but usually 30lb (0.28mm diameter same as 8lb mono), but also use 20lb (6lb mono diameter) or even the 15lb. Buy by diameter as Europe and USA have different bs ratings - think the 30lb is rated as 30lb in the States but 20kg for Europe - same diameter. Buy mine from the States at roughly £25 for 300yds - inc postage. 150, 600 and 1500 yds also available
Timber brown is my choice of colour.
Magic marker for when colour washes out, Drennan grippa stops (great product) with tungsten putty for pinning down - if required.
Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...
Thanks, Bob, that's really usefull :)
 
Could I just add a word of warning here, for anyone who is tempted by some of the recommendations on this thread and decides to use braid for the very first time...but knows absolutely nowt about the stuff?

Take care with braid...it's low diameter and rough texture means that it can cut you badly if mishandled. Certainly if you are going to use it on a big river, with big leads/feeders and long chucks...use a quality leather finger stall (obviously on the finger that holds the line on the cast) and wet the braid on the spool before you start, and again before casting whenever it looks even vaguely dry. Splash water over it by hand, or tip a cupful over it, whatever....it lessens the chances of wind knots, frap ups etc., which can cause mayhem with braid. I realise this may come across as though I want to teach my granny how to suck eggs...but if it saves just one horrendous injury, I really don't care :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
The biggest issue withX-line or any fluro is knots, standard grinners just don,t get anything like the best from it, try a Davy knot , considerably better, the only knot that we have tried that gets close to 100% BS, grinners were lucky to get 75% (thats on mono too!!). This has been well tested on big carp in heavy weed, barbel and salmon, it gets the best from it.
Phil, I use 15lb BS on the reel (5000 XTEA), not any coiling issues, but do put the spool in hot water prior to filling a reel. It is poor for distance casting, but the Thames is never that wide!
peter
 
braid is very good to fish with as you feel every twitch, but like said above care needed at all times,the only down side for braid is, if your fish snaggy rivers, of the wye trent, ribble,
them sharp rock will cut you up in seconds,thats why i use six foot lead core before my hook lenght, also lead can act like leader, for feeder or heavy leads
 
I thought there was some debate about not using braid as, because of being of lower diameter and at high tension breaking strains, it can act a bit like a cheese wire and be risk to cutting fish - particularly if wrapped around with the bigger ones that exert more force. Isn't it a bit of a no-no on some waters. The springiness of a mono main line will perhaps mean the tension never gets so great as to cut into the fish if wrapped around?

I've caught fish that had marks that could correspond to braid cuts more than anything else but am no expert.

This is a question by the way - not an accusation or criticism of anyone that uses it.

Cheers

Great post from Keith Spear on another thread while I'm posting. Like the story about chub under the road on the Colne!
 
Peter Littleworth said:
The biggest issue withX-line or any fluro is knots, standard grinners just don,t get anything like the best from it, try a Davy knot , considerably better, the only knot that we have tried that gets close to 100% BS, grinners were lucky to get 75% (thats on mono too!!). This has been well tested on big carp in heavy weed, barbel and salmon, it gets the best from it.
Phil, I use 15lb BS on the reel (5000 XTEA), not any coiling issues, but do put the spool in hot water prior to filling a reel. It is poor for distance casting, but the Thames is never that wide!
peter
Click to expand...

An interesting post spoilt by reference to a 5000XTEA - name dropper
 
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