When did Barbel fishing change?

[Andrew Green]

Very true Craig.

In answer to your original question - i started using carp fishing tackle when i realised Korda made better flat bombs than Dinsmores!

they do don't they no need to smack arsley bombs with a hammer now

 

[Paul Boote]

The Chairman on Friday


But I like - indeed, positively enjoy - smacking home-cast 1.5 and 2-ounce pear leads with a hammer...


As ever,

B.B.

 

[Andrew Boyne]

Times change Paul.

I'm sure as much enjoyment can be gained by smacking home the bivvy pegs!

Maybe not . . . .

 

[Adrian Williams]

The question was, "when did barbel fishing change?"

I think you must have missed this.

I suppose that when the chairman of the Barbel society states in print that he always fishes straight through with 20lb braid and is happy that the hook, (or the fishes lip) is the weakest part of of his set up then we can be forgiven for thinking that "barbel fishing has changed". Fortunately this is not the normal way of fishing, at least not among people I choose to fish with but I believe if we were all to follow that example we would be on a slippery slope and in danger of moving away from being anglers and entering the world of the trapper.
I'm not saying I've never used those tactics myself when fishing in snaggy areas on smaller rivers but tbh I was never happy doing it and at present I don't even own a spool of 20lb braid.

That's not to say I don't use heavy lines, one of the venues I fish on the Trent is full is sharp rocks and to give myself the best chance of landing anything I hook I have started using some 18lb line which is sold as sea line, it's main advantages are that it's cheap thick and abrasion resistant. I start off with a measured 100 yards tied onto the backing line then simply strip off any which gets damaged during the day, at the end of the day or before the next session I replace everything back to the knot.
Another place I fish on the lower Severn has mud/silt banks and little or no weed or snags, the classic 'clean bottom' I tend to use a 1.5 lb tc rod here and match it with 8lb mainline, I'm confident using 3.2lb bottom there and targeting the bream confident that should a barbel move in I can land it easily, I can't recall ever loosing a fish there on that set up.
I don't just fish larger rivers, I also fish the Teme and the Dove, where I normally use the standard 10lb mainline and 1.75 rod approach. Rigs are dictated by the swim and the river conditions, I tend to make mine on the bank and carry a large selection of hooks, too many really but I always have a few to hand out to anyone who seems to be struggling, I like to have the flexibility to be able to change methods if the one I'm using is not working and like to think you can learn something from everyone you see or everything you read, sometimes what you learn is how not to do a thing. Some of the most valuable lessons I have ever learned have come from watching some of the match anglers fishing the big open matches on the middle Severn in the 80's, Dave Harrel must have thought I was stalking him at one point but What I learned about feeder fishing from watching him for a few hours would have taken me years of trial and error, for instance, would it occur to you that you don't always have to fill the feeder?
There is much to be learned from the 'old school' way of doing things, I am slowly building a half decent library of old books and have been surprised to learn that much of the stuff we look upon as new and cutting edge is nothing of the sort and simply a rehash of something which was being done 100 years ago, they do say there is nothing new in fishing but there is plenty to be rediscovered. In conclusion I would suggest that barbel fishing like all things is actually in a constant state of flux, the recent move towards heavy rods and lines has been driven in part by fashion and in part by a vociferous minority of anglers who have found a couple of swims where the old bait and wait works well and provides them with a constant string of doubles to post on their blogs and sell to various mags. I'm not knocking it, if you are happy to feed a swim all day and then fish it for the last couple of hours and you can make it work for you then that's your prerogative, but to use a golfing phrase, "don't let it be the only club in your bag".

 

[Paul Boote]

Times change Paul.

I'm sure as much enjoyment can be gained by smacking home the bivvy pegs!

Maybe not . . . .

You have to understand, Andrew, that, for The Chairman, leads were the last remaining, least gory option. He had, after all, given up hammering Smart Set Flyfishers, Toady Tackle Dealers, Upmarket Fishy Travel Agents, Grinning and Cackling Celebs (plus their "serious" Unsmiling Colleagues) and a host of other, ever with us and leading and elbowing from and to the front, non-Angler Aberrations only with very great difficulty...

 

[Jon Whelan]

Fishing for me has not changed for whatever quarry I chose. Technology yes - it makes fishing easier. The opportunity to have self forgetting moments... never - as special & lonesome as it's ever been

 

[Garry Lee]

Fire in the hole!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERPRO-BRAI...tsLeisure_Fishing_Line_JN&hash=item5addf40dbb

 

[Dave Wingfield]

might get some of that for my canada carp fishing

 

[Colin Gordon]

I suppose that when the chairman of the Barbel society states in print that he always fishes straight through with 20lb braid and is happy that the hook, (or the fishes lip) is the weakest part of of his set up then we can be forgiven for thinking that "barbel fishing has changed". Fortunately this is not the normal way of fishing, at least not among people I choose to fish with but I believe if we were all to follow that example we would be on a slippery slope and in danger of moving away from being anglers and entering the world of the trapper.
I'm not saying I've never used those tactics myself when fishing in snaggy areas on smaller rivers but tbh I was never happy doing it and at present I don't even own a spool of 20lb braid.

That's not to say I don't use heavy lines, one of the venues I fish on the Trent is full is sharp rocks and to give myself the best chance of landing anything I hook I have started using some 18lb line which is sold as sea line, it's main advantages are that it's cheap thick and abrasion resistant. I start off with a measured 100 yards tied onto the backing line then simply strip off any which gets damaged during the day, at the end of the day or before the next session I replace everything back to the knot.
Another place I fish on the lower Severn has mud/silt banks and little or no weed or snags, the classic 'clean bottom' I tend to use a 1.5 lb tc rod here and match it with 8lb mainline, I'm confident using 3.2lb bottom there and targeting the bream confident that should a barbel move in I can land it easily, I can't recall ever loosing a fish there on that set up.
I don't just fish larger rivers, I also fish the Teme and the Dove, where I normally use the standard 10lb mainline and 1.75 rod approach. Rigs are dictated by the swim and the river conditions, I tend to make mine on the bank and carry a large selection of hooks, too many really but I always have a few to hand out to anyone who seems to be struggling, I like to have the flexibility to be able to change methods if the one I'm using is not working and like to think you can learn something from everyone you see or everything you read, sometimes what you learn is how not to do a thing. Some of the most valuable lessons I have ever learned have come from watching some of the match anglers fishing the big open matches on the middle Severn in the 80's, Dave Harrel must have thought I was stalking him at one point but What I learned about feeder fishing from watching him for a few hours would have taken me years of trial and error, for instance, would it occur to you that you don't always have to fill the feeder?
There is much to be learned from the 'old school' way of doing things, I am slowly building a half decent library of old books and have been surprised to learn that much of the stuff we look upon as new and cutting edge is nothing of the sort and simply a rehash of something which was being done 100 years ago, they do say there is nothing new in fishing but there is plenty to be rediscovered. In conclusion I would suggest that barbel fishing like all things is actually in a constant state of flux, the recent move towards heavy rods and lines has been driven in part by fashion and in part by a vociferous minority of anglers who have found a couple of swims where the old bait and wait works well and provides them with a constant string of doubles to post on their blogs and sell to various mags. I'm not knocking it, if you are happy to feed a swim all day and then fish it for the last couple of hours and you can make it work for you then that's your prerogative, but to use a golfing phrase, "don't let it be the only club in your bag".

Ade, despite you posting this up twice, no responses were forthcoming, so in case everyone (except me) has got you on ignore (and assuming they haven't got me on ignore too), I've quoted your post so they can enjoy reading through it.


====================================================================================================

I'm thinking of posting everything twice in future Colin; just to keep my stats up you understand.:

Ade, thing is when I've got something to say, I just say it..... but seeing as post numbers matter to you, I've edited this one rather than making a new one, so helping you close the gap between yours and mine, as stats obviously matter to you.


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Well Colin I read it the first time it was posted and I have to say it gets even better by the third time of reading. So thanks for posting it again. Some very pertinent points in there Ade. I like the comment re: "you learn what not to do", very, very true.

Glad to help highlight points of interest Nathan and nowt wrong with a bit of reiteration.

Ade, now ever conscious of your concerns over post counts, I've re-edited this post again, just to help you close the gap.

 

[Nathan Walter]

Well Colin I read it the first time it was posted and I have to say it gets even better by the third time of reading. So thanks for posting it again. Some very pertinent points in there Ade. I like the comment re: "you learn what not to do", very, very true.

 

[Mike Cornish]

remember.. back in the good ol' day.., four turn water knots linking the lead directly to your mainline?!
would you fish for double figure barbel with such rigs, and 6lb line?!!
i would rather use a 30lb braid and minimise the risk of breakages occuring in the first place, and a fish carrying around line and rig. as for pulling for a break, that would mean that your snagged up... so your pulling against the snag, not a fishes lips!!!!
my favourite 'argument' is that of braid cutting the flanks of fish! ignoring the fact that most braid users use tubing, most of these statements come from those using mono line... and 2ft or so of thin 10lb braid as a hooklink! ..you know, the bit that is closest to the fish?!!!

 

[Paul Boote]

I spent much of the good old days (for me, '60s and '70s, fishing barbel from age 10 onwards) thinking that a 1-ounce lead was beachcasting gear (anything heavier was strictly Thames weirpool in flood) and using 1/8, 1/4 and 3/8 and 1/2 ounce leads (getting a bit heavy, the latter), hitting bites as they happened or merely picking up the rod and resisting in the event of a screamer, and caught more than a few (including three ten-pounders) - how most (benighted) Southern barbel-fishers did it then (plus the use of a clear celluloid, sheet-lead-ballasted feeder). We learn and move on, yet the two-Swan link on light line and a 1lb to 1.25lb through-actioned, ultra-light carbon-kevlar still (amazingly) catches me the occasional huge barbel that clearly hasn't been reading the weekly comics.

 

[Andrew Boyne]

Is that so?! How do you know this??!

 

[David Gauntlett]

I spent much of the good old days (for me, '60s and '70s, fishing barbel from age 10 onwards) thinking that a 1-ounce lead was beachcasting gear (anything heavier was strictly Thames weirpool in flood) and using 1/8, 1/4 and 3/8 and 1/2 ounce leads (getting a bit heavy, the latter), hitting bites as they happened or merely picking up the rod and resisting in the event of a screamer, and caught more than a few (including three ten-pounders) - how most (benighted) Southern barbel-fishers did it then (plus the use of a clear celluloid, sheet-lead-ballasted feeder). We learn and move on, yet the two-Swan link on light line and a 1lb to 1.25lb through-actioned, ultra-light carbon-kevlar still (amazingly) catches me the occasional huge barbel that clearly hasn't been reading the weekly comics.

What few barbel I had time to catch last year (10 or 11 as I recall) were mostly caught on a 2/3 swan link...the only exception being one on a 4 swan heavy weight link

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Adrian Williams]

Ade, despite you posting this up twice, no responses were forthcoming, so in case everyone (except me) has got you on ignore (and assuming they haven't got me on ignore too), I've quoted your post so they can enjoy reading through it.

I'm thinking of posting everything twice in future Colin; just to keep my stats up you understand.:

 

[Jim Foxall]

Braid or mono

I have thought long and hard about the use of braid over a number of seasons and have yet to see a single disadvantage in its use.

At the outset, it doesn't matter whether it is mono or braid, if fished straight through, the line can break anywhere along its length with the result that the fish is tethered or dragging a load of tackle about. On this basis, a weaker hooklength compared to the main line is a must, and I think that we are all agreed on that.

It has been mentioned that braid is more effective than mono in pulling through weed, and in my experience, there is no doubt about that. The advantage here is that the chances are you will recover tackle rather than leave baited snagged up rigs in the water. If a fish gets stuck in weed the chances of landing the fish is much higher with braid than if using mono, which just stretches like an elastic band until it weakens and breaks with the obvious consequences. Another criticism of braid is that it can wrap around a fish. The only fish that I have ever caught which was wrapped in line (mono) was an eel.

Finally, I do fish heavy diameter braid. Braid, unlike mono, has very little stretch and for this reason, and in my opinion, the breaking strain has to be upped. With low diameter braids, a sudden pull can result in the braid snapping, for example, if the bale arm snaped over, or line got stuck around the tip ring, on the cast. Naturally, this has never happened to me, but if it were to, then with a heavy braid, the only embarrassment would be my tackle landing at my feet.

 

[Keith Speer]

Hi Chaps

Being, sort of, responsible for this thread I thought I might as well add my two-penneth!

For me Barbel fishing has never really changed, the tackle has and the certainly the size of the fish, but I just carry on in the same old way!

Being a bit of a Dinosaur I caught my first Barbel under my Dad’s instruction on the river Kennet on Lady Benyons water, I was using a Hardy Richard Walker “Weasel†Carp rod (an Avon rod really, of about 1 1/4lb test curve) my, then, brand new Mitchell 309, loaded with 6lb Platil, a 3/8oz bomb and a Pegley Davis size 6 hook loaded with a humongous Lob Worm!
She weighed 6lb on the nose and she was simply THE most beautiful creature to waggle a fin on the planet.
Dad showed me how to “Burp†her and how I should take my time making sure she was happy and healthy before she swam back into the crystal clear water of the Kennet.

For me it was a simply magical day and the memory is “hard wired†into my soul until my dying day!

The following Summer Dad showed me how to “look through†the water to see the secret world in which fish live, he also stood with me among the streamer weeds of the Kennet while I trotted with his “Kennet Perfection†cane float rod, a Speedia centre pin and a home made bodied Crow quill Avon float, I fished, and Dad fed the swim with Maggots and Hemp for me.
He taught me the importance of feed, the “when to†and the “when not toâ€, the “how much†and “how oftenâ€, these were life lessons, vastly more important than the chemical symbols of Hydrogen and Helium that dear old Mr Phillips used to bang on about every Tuesday morning during double Chemistry.

That day I caught my first ever Barbel on the float, a feisty pound and a half fish that fought like the devil possessed, my heart raced as the fish slid over the waiting net!

Forty five years later much has changed, but a lot has not!

I still have the Hardy rod but the “Kennet Perfection†was stolen years ago. I still have the Mitchell and the Speedia, now worn out from over use, but it has been replaced by several “Rolls Royce†made for me, centre pins, various other pins of which the latest is an Okuma Sheffield (super trotting reel) and four more Speedia pins, which all work superbly well, are not worn out – yet, but I am working on it, two of which were used last week and will probably be used until they are divided among my friends after my demise!

A quick sort through my float trays will reveal a number of Crow quill Avon floats, made for me by various friends; they are there, not because I am a sentimental old fool (which I most certainly am) but because I shall continue to use them until I find a better replacement!

So the reels have not changed that much and the floats are the same, the life lessons are still there, improved a bit but just as important as the day I learned them, I still use Maggots, except I now don’t call them “Gentlesâ€, I even still fish the same rivers that my Dad took me to!

What have changed are the rods and the lines! In comparison to what was used when God’s Dog was a pup, what we have available now are simply superb.
I must admit that I tend to use rather older rods, I have not seen many of the brand new ones that light my fire, my purchases, such as they are, tend to be a few years old, mainly because I don’t like Fugi fittings on a float rod because a number of my pins won’t fit in them and also because the current “very good, expensive†rods do not seem to be as good as some of the older “very good expensive†rods!
Actually they don’t need to be expensive; anyone who wants to chuck out a good condition Drennan IM8 13ft float or a Drennan Stick float rod can chuck them my way (worth a try).

Lines are now superb too, gossamer thin for enormous strength, durable too!
Braid was something you did to Jenny’s hair (she lived two doors down) and………….

Ok! You don’t need to know about that, lets just say Braid has some important uses.
I tend not to use it as main line, just as a hook length when I do “proper Barbel fishingâ€, I also fish a lighter hook length than my main line, Dad taught me that and I think he was right.

He also taught me that I should measure my gear for the task at hand, if I am fishing near to snags I use gear that will ensure no fish will get tethered or end up with a hook in its mouth that it has no use for.
I am sure many will feel that I should not fish with such light lines, or indeed such light rods, I do so when I feel there is a need and I can get away with it and to be fair I would not usually use, for example a 3lb 6oz hook length when I know a very big fish would come along, the fact is you can never be sure of the size of the next fish or even if there will be a next fish but you do what you do, and measure what you do, against hope and expectation, this is where lots of experience is of enormous benefit.

This year I am taking my coaching badges, I feel that passing on that which I know is something I should do, there is such a lot of stuff that an experienced angler does automatically that should be passed on to those who wish to learn, I run a Stick Float clinic every year for my club, I do this so that other anglers have a chance to practice an alternative method, they may stick at it, they may not, but at least they will then have an option and they might just find it enjoyable.

I can and sometimes do fish at night with a pair of heavier rods, at one time I spent a lot of time watching beta lights, these days I prefer to actively fish for my fish, rather than sit and wait, I am not rubbishing the method, I just prefer to do it my way.

We all go fishing for enjoyment and we all fish in slightly different ways because we do what we like to do best, ok some of it can be described as a bit odd sometimes, but then again, a lot of what we do could not be described by a “normal†person as a rational act.
For me I enjoy fishing, it is not just about catching, but rather the actual act of fishing for it’s own sake, I fished today, did not get a bite but we had a great day.
Would I still have gone had I known I would blank? – Absolutely!!
It is called “Angling†and not “Catching†for a reason.
Part of that enjoyment comes from the use of “balanced†tackle, I have so many centre pins because I like to match the reel, line, rod and end tackle to the task in hand, I like to get maximum enjoyment from the use of my gear.
I have a pair of 3 ½ lb TC St.Croix Muskellunge rods that I use for Pike fishing in Holland, I could use those and a multiplier and a bite alarm to fish for Barbel and Chub, I suspect I could catch using them too, but where would the fun be in that?
I feel the same about some of the heavy gear available today, Carballing or whatever it’s called is not my thing, but others enjoy it, so great, more power to their elbow.

But I would suggest that having a look at some of the old fashioned (or is it just out of fashion) ways of doing things might offer an enjoyable alternative, making use of the best of the old and the best of the new can be a lot of fun and may just make fishing a little bit more enjoyable!

One thing that has not changed, for me at least, is when that fish slips over the lip of the waiting net, my heart is still racing!!

And that is one thing that I hope never changes!!

Tight Lines.

 

[Dave Durrant]

Amen!



Keith, 1.21am???? Couldn't you sleep, or did it take you a while to type that marvelous post?

 

[Colin Bridger]

Once again another article from Keith that is easy to read and full of interest.
Keith you should write a book, I would be first in line to buy it.

ATB
Colin

 

[Jim Foxall]

Once again another article from Keith that is easy to read and full of interest.
Keith you should write a book, I would be first in line to buy it.

ATB
Colin

Agreed, a lovely post which takes you there. Well done.