otters

[Neil Smart]

A few years ago it was rainbows Neil, more recently brownies. The low levels were a lot worse ten years ago than recently I can assure you, and there were plenty of fish. The fish population, barbel and chub in particular, has plummeted since otters have become more common. That is a fact Neil and not a theory, I used to fish the river regularly. From the footbridge at the start of the Newlands stretch right up to the quarry entrance you would see at least 20 barbel just by walking the banks. Spinning for trout would produce almost a chub a cast. Now you never see a barbel and many spinning trips two years ago turned up one chub about 8oz. The fish have vanished since the otters arrived. Make of that what you will.

Alex, if it the Otter and to be honest from what you say the culprit does seem to be Mr O. Have you any data regarding Otter population? For what ever reason I feel sorry for you and the River Windrush I have known of it's demise for some time, it's a beautiful little River and the abiding image I have of that valley is one of the sort of place that demands to be fished.

I realise that Barbel were never prolific, but it was always good for Chub, it's a real pity, but the River will bounce back I am sure, in the meantime you have sparked an interest in me trying to find out more.

I have also fished the Cherwell another local River that has it's problems I believe. I fished the Cherwell a lot, many years ago at Kings Sutton (in laws lived nearby) and the fishing was superb.

 

[Alex Gowney]

Alex, if it the Otter and to be honest from what you say the culprit does seem to be Mr O. Have you any data regarding Otter population? For what ever reason I feel sorry for you and the River Windrush I have known of it's demise for some time, it's a beautiful little River and the abiding image I have of that valley is one of the sort of place that demands to be fished.

I realise that Barbel were never prolific, but it was always good for Chub, it's a real pity, but the River will bounce back I am sure, in the meantime you have sparked an interest in me trying to find out more.

I have also fished the Cherwell another local River that has it's problems I believe. I fished the Cherwell a lot, many years ago at Kings Sutton (in laws lived nearby) and the fishing was superb.

No, I have no data regarding the Windrush but twice saw one on the stretch and others had seen it(them?) too. In fact Neil, that particular stretch was very prolific with both barbel and chub, the chub perhaps slightly edging it.

The Cherwell is a shadow of the river it was just 6 years ago. I haven't fished it for barbel probably for ten years as I had caught many there in the 90s and moved to other rivers. However, I continued to chub fish it and while the average size went up considerably the stock of fish almost collapsed. The Thames and it's tributaries are very tough going these days.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

I am with Des on this one

Anglers call for cull of otters over fish havoc - Telegraph

Never in a million years will the culling of Otters be sanctioned . For one thing it would be political suicide for the party that backed it . In popular opinion Otters are lovely creatures long persecuted by man , Joe public couldn't give a monkeys about the demise of a few fish . Grim as it is we will just have to grin and bear it . As usual man has sown the seeds and now reaps the rewards , good or bad depending on your viewpoint .

 

[Andy Bebbington]

Got to agree with mike on this one and as much as i don`t like what otters are doing to are rivers they are here to stay and there is only one chance of ever getting rid of them and that`s no chance.
Andy
Think it`s time to move on lads as were stuk on the round about lol

 

[Paul Dowgill]

Mike is probably right but when one reads the river threads much of it is depressing reading with what seems to be dwindling fish stocks - which will lead to balancing of the otter population as there will be no food, but this will take some time and of course there will be fewer fish.
So in the meantime pressure on the EA to undertake some serious surveys, river re-stocking, AT getting off the fence .. or are we heading down the road to a position that Graham Marsden wrote about some time ago - stillwater barbel

 

[Neil Smart]

Never in a million years will the culling of Otters be sanctioned . For one thing it would be political suicide for the party that backed it . In popular opinion Otters are lovely creatures long persecuted by man , Joe public couldn't give a monkeys about the demise of a few fish . Grim as it is we will just have to grin and bear it . As usual man has sown the seeds and now reaps the rewards , good or bad depending on your viewpoint .

Well summed up Mike, I have to remain positive, you know, 'every cloud... Anglers have no rights over species, well not in Rivers anyway, as I said earlier if we over manage our fish and Rivers, well we might just as well fish the commercials.
We as Anglers should ensure that the future of our Rivers are not threatened by man's hand not the Otters paw.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men,

Neil , managing rivers and the fish ?, in that case most of the fish you , and me , fish for would not be there naturally ?, don't stop you fishing for them !. Barbel in particular need a bit of a helping hand at the mo , the EA know it , and get one of their officers off record and they will tell you so . They ate stocking thousands of them , and they may be the fish our grandchildren fish for at this rate , don't make them " commercial " barbel , it makes them lucky barbel .

Hatter

 

[Neil Smart]

Hi men,

Neil , managing rivers and the fish ?, in that case most of the fish you , and me , fish for would not be there naturally ?, don't stop you fishing for them !. Barbel in particular need a bit of a helping hand at the mo , the EA know it , and get one of their officers off record and they will tell you so . They ate stocking thousands of them , and they may be the fish our grandchildren fish for at this rate , don't make them " commercial " barbel , it makes them lucky barbel .

Hatter

By managing I was alluding to managing the predators for the sake of the Barbel, which would be counter productive in my opinion. The natural restocking of our rivers mostly occur naturally I believe unless I have been living under a stone
My point is mark that Barbel should not be treated as as special case, over any other species. Hence the'commercial' comparison.
Hope you and Sue are well, been you know where a few times and really getting amongst them, so different to previous seasons with all this water.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men,

Agreed Neil , all fish should be treated with the same respect , but the EA know that barbel stocks are really struggling , hence natural restocking ain't working , which is why they are spending our money breeding / stocking fish into my area ( along with others ) .

Not been on our bit yet , but have a weeks holiday soon , will meet up .


Hatter

 

[Stu Morgan]

I would try to convince the local Eastern Europeans that otters taste lovely, much better than carp and zander.

 

[Robert Richbell]

what bothers me about the otter situation, is it has been acknowledged by EA, Natural England etc. that otters can have a serious impact on small rivers but that they dont know why. They have introduced an apex predator and admit they have no idea how many there are,they think thousands, or how to count them due to the nomadic nature of otters. On my local river, the Kennet where there have been otters for many many years, i had only seen 1 big barbel with a missing lobe of its tail although i am sure there were more. Last year i saw 5, this year so far 4 of the last 5 doubles i have seen on the bank on 1 stretch have tail damage. Something has changed, and from a barbel angling point of view its not looking good. The people i know who used to fish the BA and other rivers where barbel numbers plummeted say this is how it started there. I hope they are wrong but they think the Kennet could become effectively devoid of Barbel within 2-3 years.

 

[Ray Walton]

Personally speaking Robert..I don't think that that the tail damage mentioned is down to Otters, but more of a water quality issue. ie Bacterial Infection that eats through the bone rays. It is common nowadays on many rivers. If an otter wants to catch, rip its throat and guts out and eat a barbel, ...it usually does without many escaping, as goes with all other species.

 

[Ian Crook]

I agree Ray, the last few years on the Kennet with very low water and high temps would have created a really superb environment for a boom in bacteria of all kinds. That shallow water together with hugely increased boat traffic would not help. Let's also remember the pressure the Kennet gets from anglers these days, not al will be the best at handling fish. And then add the fact that matches take place all year and Barbel go into keepnets!!

 

[Ash Gould]

Personally speaking Robert..I don't think that that the tail damage mentioned is down to Otters, but more of a water quality issue. ie Bacterial Infection that eats through the bone rays. It is common nowadays on many rivers. If an otter wants to catch, rip its throat and guts out and eat a barbel, ...it usually does without many escaping, as goes with all other species.

Thats very interesting, most Barbel caught on the Ouse have some sort of tail damage and most anglers (me included) put it down to a close encounter with an otter.

 

[Clive Shipman]

I personally believe that otters do damage barbel tails. Imagine how barbel can really tuck themselves up in snags and tree roots I would think the only part an otter could get to would be its tail. On my local stretch of the Bristol Avon 3 years ago when otters started to be more frequent we started to notice fresh wounds in the tails (top and bottom lobes completely missing sometimes both). There were no small wounds no indication of a gradual loss. And in the space of 2 years most of that big barbel was gone with no boat traffic and no real angling explanation for a tail loss I find it hard to believe it’s just a bacterial infection.

 

[Adrian Williams]

I remember watching a nature documentary a few years ago where the adult otters, when teaching the young how to hunt, were deliberately maiming fish by nipping bits off the tail to make them easier for the juveniles to hunt and catch.
I'm not suggesting that this is the cause of all tail damage, only that it does happen and is documented.

 

[Craig Wood]

The big problem is when they reintroduced the Otters, they did so in big numbers as they believed most would perish...WRONG..The EA sat back and watched whilst various Angling clubs and organisations working very hard to improve the riverine enviroment and increase fish stocks over many years, makes you think if even back then they were thinking of reintroducing Otters at a further date, so were quite happy to let us improve food stocks for future VERMIN aka the Otter..Some venues will never be the same after the damage the VERMIN have done, and not just to fish either..

 

[Chris Fox]

I personally believe that otters do damage barbel tails. Imagine how barbel can really tuck themselves up in snags and tree roots I would think the only part an otter could get to would be its tail. On my local stretch of the Bristol Avon 3 years ago when otters started to be more frequent we started to notice fresh wounds in the tails (top and bottom lobes completely missing sometimes both). There were no small wounds no indication of a gradual loss. And in the space of 2 years most of that big barbel was gone with no boat traffic and no real angling explanation for a tail loss I find it hard to believe it’s just a bacterial infection.

I didn't have a Barbel on the BA with nipped tails until that time. Then, just as I began to see an otter quite regularly (and I'm a skeptic about otters), I began catching and seeing Barbel caught with tail damage. I agree with Shippo on this.

 

[Robert Richbell]

Ray, i suspect all sorts of nasties are in the rivers now days but if it were bacteria or boat it wouldn't just be the lobes of the tail fin. Quite often its chunks missing, quite a clean cut/break, the last 1 just had a couple of centimetres missing at the bottom of the lower lobe. No wear of damage or appearance of fraying etc which i would expect if it was a bacterial infection some have almost no lower lobe
1 last week looked very fresh and had a bit missing from some spines another spine was broken and hanging by a thread but otherwise looked healthy. (are spines the right word ??)
Also seems to only be larger Barbel at this time which i believe was the pattern followed on the BA amongst others.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Ray, i suspect all sorts of nasties are in the rivers now days but if it were bacteria or boat it wouldn't just be the lobes of the tail fin. Quite often its chunks missing, quite a clean cut/break, the last 1 just had a couple of centimetres missing at the bottom of the lower lobe. No wear of damage or appearance of fraying etc which i would expect if it was a bacterial infection some have almost no lower lobe
1 last week looked very fresh and had a bit missing from some spines another spine was broken and hanging by a thread but otherwise looked healthy. (are spines the right word ??)
Also seems to only be larger Barbel at this time which i believe was the pattern followed on the BA amongst others.

They are called rays not spines. Personally I think that predators are the cause of a fair bit of damage to tails and also dorsal fins. I once watched a 15lb plus barbel being chased underwater by a cormorant which was snapping at its tail, so I don't put it all down to otters.