• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

otters

Or men with names like Ash psml :D

said from a Townie to a Townie
 
Hi
excuse me, Sir Retard to you ;)
 
stop bitching Ash and do somthing useful like making a donation.

Or post somthing that helps others,

Or just carry on with your stupid Townie thing and add some smileys like this :rolleyes:

In the meantime people might want to discuss " otters " ?
 
Mike Webb said:
Where did I say that we had no right to be on a river? Putting otters in rivers that previously held a population is not interfering with an ecosystem, in my view. Also, I don't loathe myself, but neither do I happen to see things in black and white like many anglers do. Anglers good, conservationists bad.

cheers
Click to expand...

Can't remember what I was replying to Mike, apologies if I misread your post.

Putting otters in rivers that previously held a population is not interfering with an ecosystem provided that river currently has the means to sustain them without seriously damaging fish stocks. If it doesn't, then I'm afraid it is interfering. You may well respond that many fish stockings also interfere with a river or lakes eco-system and of course you would be right. Everyone get's it wrong sometimes but I have yet to hear one of the Otter trust or EA reps admit that things could have been done differently, with a bit more research or dialogue with those affected; i.e angling clubs & fishery owners.

Neither do I see things black and white, not all conservationists are bad the same as not all anglers are good. Both have a healthy population of idiots and fanatics in their ranks. Many anglers on here however, speak in defence of the otter which they are fully entitled to. But how often do we hear anyone from the otter trusts claiming to see things from the anglers perspective?
 
Last edited:
Neil Smart said:
It has been stated that the Eels was supposed to be the food of preference for Otter was simply never the case, Otter have a catholic choice of food and really are opportunists, and this was unveiled to the Barbel on the Ouse where such a event was well recorded and such the Otters reputation was probably set amongst many anglers.
However consider this!! the Otter can benefit the Barbel population/quality of species in that only the fittest will survive, that is the crux of improving DNA, cam you say that those Ouse fish would have quality DNA?
Click to expand...

Some noble efforts to put a positive slant on all this Neil:) But unless you are a fish biologist who has done the necessary research how can you comment on the DNA of the Ouse fish? Speculation at best.

I love your line about sweetening the pill by enjoying seeing otters around. Do you think that might work with football? If your teams geeting a beating then don't be miserable and frustrated, just switch support to the team whose hammering them!! Sorted..:D

Joking aside Neil, you make some interesting points.
 
Last edited:
Alex Gowney said:
Some noble efforts to put a positive slant on all this Neil:) But unless you are a fish biologist who has done the necessary research how can you comment on the DNA of the Ouse fish? Speculation at best.

I love your line about sweetening the pill by enjoying seeing otters around. Do you think that might work with football? If your teams geeting a beating then don't be miserable and frustrated, just switch support to the team whose hammering them!! Sorted..:D

Joking aside Neil, you make some interesting points.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Alex, I guess when the rivers are in the fields I have to indulge myself. However my point about DNA was referencing all Barbel not just Ouse fish, I suspect Ouse fish were easy pickings for the Otter, as they were rather pampered.?
No, my point was regarding all Predators vs Prey in that the prey do adapt as a consequence and if we Barbel fish because of the fighting quality of the species then perhaps I have a a reasonable argument for the Otter.

Of course we need a healthy balance of predators and prey but some still view the Pike as the enemy, as we now consider the Otter.
Indigenous species I have no problem with, after all the Otter managed out waterways without wiping out the fish population for millions of years, it would not be in their interest to do so, however in truth we have seen a unnatural surge in Barbel numbers, the like that was never seen when the Otter was a common factor, so it would seem reasonable the the Barbel would appear to suffer the most at this point in time.

However it's all well and good me expounding the virtues of the Otter without me feeling deep regret for those that have seen their local River wiped clean of Barbel, I know the likes of Mark & Sue Anderson, Terry Christopher and many others now have to look further afield, but given time I would bet anything when things settle down Barbel will return fitter and stronger then ever.

Perhaps I am a dreamer, but I do like to see the Otter, for it is a magnificent specimen I cannot say the same for Cormorants, but that's another problem.

However for me the real threat to our River is not animal predation, it is the likes of those that have a plan to install small Hydro Generators to our weirs, I am currently fighting the 'Greens' tooth and nail, can you imagine the the devastation these schemes would cause? The flow would decrease up to
90 %!!! and these naive schemes are funded by the Government, that is the real problem my fellow Anglers.
 
John Young said:
stop bitching Ash and do somthing useful like making a donation.

Or post somthing that helps others,

Or just carry on with your stupid Townie thing and add some smileys like this :rolleyes:

In the meantime people might want to discuss " otters " ?
Click to expand...

So ''I just don't like them'' (Otters) when I posted what I thought was a reasonable reply to you yesterday ...was helpful?:D

Anyway John let's not fall out, especially as you fish the Severn, and we may not be Townie savvy with a sharp wit to match,:rolleyes: but some of us do take time to think things through before condemning a species because it might take a few Barbel.
And your asking for a donation (again)...how much do you want?:)
 
Lets also remember that barbel are not indigenous to many rivers in the uk and were introduced by man into ecosystems that already had otter populations. If that's not interfering with an ecosystem then I don't know what is.
I think we have to accept that otters are in our rivers where they belong and that they will make their presence felt as the apex predator. As Neil has just said, it is not in their interest to wipe out their prey and I suspect that otters will starve to death or, more likely, move on before they have eaten every barbel in a river. Until the otters returned we were living with an unbalanced ecosystem, with no apex predators, except perhaps for the cormorants and mink which came along to plug the gap.
The only situation that would see me arguing for the control of otters would be if they were competing with us for food, and they aren't.

cheers
 
MIke

"with no apex predators"

Excepting those foreigners who see them as a food source.:mad: Here and overseas.

That should quiet things down....:eek:;)
 
I believe that's called 'throwing the cat amongst the pigeons' Graham.

:)
 
Mike Webb said:
Lets also remember that barbel are not indigenous to many rivers in the uk and were introduced by man into ecosystems that already had otter populations. If that's not interfering with an ecosystem then I don't know what is.
I think we have to accept that otters are in our rivers where they belong and that they will make their presence felt as the apex predator. As Neil has just said, it is not in their interest to wipe out their prey and I suspect that otters will starve to death or, more likely, move on before they have eaten every barbel in a river. Until the otters returned we were living with an unbalanced ecosystem, with no apex predators, except perhaps for the cormorants and mink which came along to plug the gap.
The only situation that would see me arguing for the control of otters would be if they were competing with us for food, and they aren't.

cheers
Click to expand...

Otters do not "move on'. They are territorial and will fight to the death to protect their territory.
 
Look on the bright side, if they turn up on an old industrial river they will be helping to clean up the heavy metals by taking them out of the food chain.

I have not seen any mink for a good while on my local river - the last one I saw was feeding it's litter with signal crayfish.
 
Neil Smart said:
So ''I just don't like them'' (Otters) when I posted what I thought was a reasonable reply to you yesterday ...was helpful?:D

Anyway John let's not fall out, especially as you fish the Severn, and we may not be Townie savvy with a sharp wit to match,:rolleyes: but some of us do take time to think things through before condemning a species because it might take a few Barbel.
And your asking for a donation (again)...how much do you want?:)
Click to expand...

Hi Neil

i thought you would find my posts, and i will join you on using the undermining smiley :rolleyes:
I joined a forum to help other catch fish and also to promote my charity event and sorry for asking for donations again
Aaron is 19 suffered with cancer for 2 years and today was told there is nothing else they can do and allocated him a McMillan nurse :( please visit the website and read the Aarons progress written by his Dad,
so yes i will keep asking give if you want but please dont mock me for asking or i might just get my back up ;)
Carry on the otter thread and please Neil less of the following me around, i might think you fancy me :D

i will let you know next time i am on the severn just in case you want to visit for some tips

regards
 
Last edited:
John Young said:
Hi Neil

i thought you would find my posts, and i will join you on using the undermining smiley :rolleyes:
I joined a forum to help other catch fish and also to promote my charity event and sorry for asking for donations again
Aaron is 19 suffered with cancer for 2 years and today was told there is nothing else they can do and allocated him a McMillan nurse :( please visit the website and read the Aarons progress written by his Dad,
so yes i will keep asking give if you want but please dont mock me for asking or i might just get my back up ;)
Carry on the otter thread and please Neil less of the following me around, i might think you fancy me :D

i will let you know next time i am on the severn just in case you want to visit for some tips

regards
Click to expand...
As much as I support any worthy cause, however I dislike the Moral High Ground sentiments you seem to be enjoying, and believe me I am not following you around and my orientation is not towards men, and I am happy to blunder on without your gems of wisdom regarding the Severn.
You seem to have a knack of upsetting folk on here, and in a record time, so please wind it in, and stop hiding behind sentiment, i have as we all have similar tragic stories such as Arron's in that a close friend and my brother in-law are both terminally ill.
And yet though your efforts are to be applauded your lack of a civil manner on here will not help.
Now, care to start again...
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Otters do not "move on'. They are territorial and will fight to the death to protect their territory.
Click to expand...

Hi Chris. This topic excites passions does it not?:)
Ok, otters will extend their territory to up to 20km to secure a food supply (apparently - had to look it up :)) and the young will move on out of their parent's territory, which itself is dependent on the food supply.
Anyway, I don't like to see large fish killed or barbel populations tumbling, but otters belong in our rivers and have a right to eat. That's my view anyway.

cheers
 
Mink definitely like eating crayfish. A near-dried up river in Spain had mink living there and although there were pockets of water full of trapped trout, all the bankside evidence was crayfish shells whilst the trout continued to survive unmolested. Definitely mink on the Loddon. Perhaps the otters will eventually keep the crayfish in check? Then all we need is a few good recipes for spit roast cormorant to keep other evolutionary apex predators happy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top