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otters

Not sure whether or not you missed the sarcasm in my post Neil :D

Regarding eating everything, it is a well documented fact that a Dog otter will protect a territory for it's bitch/pups and will drive it's own mature pups out of that territory. The size of that territory is dependant on the size of the larder, i.e. a larder with a low density of fish will lead to the otter protecting a bigger territory, at this point they kill each other.......... Natural control!!

Thank you for that Ian.
 
I cant imagine for one moment than any one is going to sanction the culling of Otters / Cormorants .
Once the various wild life organisations / RSPB and the general public etc etc get wind of whats going to happen .
We as anglers would become public enemy number one .

How often when you watch wild life progames on the tv . Do you see films of fish and the envirement that the live in ?

I wonder if you were to ask people there list of favorite wild life .
How many would say fish ? That swim in our rivers , Lakes and Canals and the sea .

Its funny when I tell people that I go fishing , The first question I get asked , Do you eat the fish you catch and I tell them I put them back .
They tend to look at me in a odd sort of way :(
 
Ian...Not sure if that documented stuff applies to hand reared introduced otters! Down here, they hunt in packs. and you will see them on virtually every mile of the Dorset Stour. Originally, scientific info states that the territory can be 10-20miles/KM for 'one' pair of otters, but it aint the case in dorset. It's like different batches of otters every mile or so!
 
Ian...Not sure if that documented stuff applies to hand reared introduced otters! Down here, they hunt in packs. and you will see them on virtually every mile of the Dorset Stour. Originally, scientific info states that the territory can be 10-20miles/KM for 'one' pair of otters, but it aint the case in dorset. It's like different batches of otters every mile or so!

I'm not sure neither Ray but it may be that the larder has a plenty.......... I can't imagine the instinct of any animal allowing their food supply to become completely depleted, the same applies to humans, just look at cases like the plane crash in South America years ago, it didn't take them long to start killing each other as the food ran out!! :eek:
 
I'm not sure neither Ray but it may be that the larder has a plenty.......... I can't imagine the instinct of any animal allowing their food supply to become completely depleted, the same applies to humans, just look at cases like the plane crash in South America years ago, it didn't take them long to start killing each other as the food ran out!! :eek:

I cant imagine the instinct of an animal having any concept what-so-ever as to how much food they have at their disposal.

To suggest such a thing implies animals have notions of quantity and can count which is far to an abstract a concept for basic stimulus response animals to have any notion of.

Changing resources as a result of another food source being depleted is basic survival instinct.
 
I cant imagine the instinct of an animal having any concept what-so-ever as to how much food they have at their disposal.

To suggest such a thing implies animals have notions of quantity and can count which is far to an abstract a concept for basic stimulus response animals to have any notion of.

Changing resources as a result of another food source being depleted is basic survival instinct.

Oh, ok, I guess I had better stop watching David Attenborough then :rolleyes:
 
with regards to the numbers witnessed by Ray, is it because these were "reared" and some of the natural instincts are dulled or given that i think i read otters actually have quite short lives, these are "wild" otters who for whatever reason are behaving what seems to be abnormally. They also seem far less shy than they used to be, until a couple of years ago, it was only ever a glimpses of otters, now they almost pose for pictures. Bit of a vague post but even the "experts" don't seem to have the answers.
 
with regards to the numbers witnessed by Ray, is it because these were "reared" and some of the natural instincts are dulled or given that i think i read otters actually have quite short lives, these are "wild" otters who for whatever reason are behaving what seems to be abnormally. They also seem far less shy than they used to be, until a couple of years ago, it was only ever a glimpses of otters, now they almost pose for pictures. Bit of a vague post but even the "experts" don't seem to have the answers.

Robert,

As Crooky said, wild mink in the natural state have territories that they defend, to the extent that they will kill young offspring or intruding males if they can't frighten them off. However, the otters that were bred and raised in captivity were obviously forced, by space limitations, to live in groups in tiny enclosed areas or pens. It is said this completely unnatural situation forced them to loose their natural instincts, a case of accept a completely alien crowded situations....or die. As a result, the reintroduced otters run in packs, as they did when being raised from pups in pens, and are not the same beasties as their wild brethren. I have no idea whether this is fact or not...but some of the reports coming in would certainly seem to support that claim.

Initially, the importance of this claim was dismissed on the basis that even if true, the numbers of captive raised otters was so small when compared to the numbers of existing wild otters that the effect would be minimal. However, there have been many claims that the ACTUAL number of released captive bred otters (and injured or starving youngsters that had been gathered up and bought in, kept until healthy again, and then re-released) has been deliberately and wildly underestimated, and that the true figures may never be known. Even the authorities now admit that there were probably many more than those admitted to...and in fact in some areas it is still going on to a certain extent to this day.

Whatever, if this claim of unnatural behaviour IS true, we can only hope it doesn't take TOO long for the otters to return to their traditional way of life. I suppose that would depend on whether that type of behaviour is genetically ingrained...or a learned pattern passed on from father to son, as it were.

As for life expectancy, a study done in the late nineties suggested that due to the large number of accidental deaths, four years was a reasonable average age at death for wild otters. However, one member of their sample group was found to be sixteen years old. I assume then captive otters would grow to to a fairly venerable age....but that the wild lot are incredibly accident prone!

Time will tell.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Apparently they don't like bream, carp or tench either, otherwise some of the many unprotected gravel pits along the Kennet would be suffering losses from otter kills and they aren't, it would seem only the barbel in the river are being killed! They must like the most difficult targets, a challenge maybe :)

Rob, previous comments were aimed at the internet moaners, not specifically yourself.

cheer Ian, you are right that anglers are great at putting the world to right on forums but ask them to volunteer some of their time to help their club, or fisheriey etc or paying a bit of money and it all changes. lol
 
cheer Ian, you are right that anglers are great at putting the world to right on forums but ask them to volunteer some of their time to help their club, or fisheriey etc or paying a bit of money and it all changes. lol

Rob, never a truer word said
 
Then again, there are the self righteous lot who come on forums merely to condemn all other anglers (sometimes the whole of humanity it seems :rolleyes:) making sweeping generalisations about one and all. How they can justify such accusations without knowing anything about the folk they pour scorn upon has always been a mystery to me. But then, that sort of person usually doesn't see a need to justify their actions in my experience. Hey ho, never mind :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Then again, there are the self righteous lot who come on forums merely to condemn all other anglers (sometimes the whole of humanity it seems :rolleyes:) making sweeping generalisations about one and all. How they can justify such accusations without knowing anything about the folk they pour scorn upon has always been a mystery to me. But then, that sort of person usually doesn't see a need to justify their actions in my experience. Hey ho, never mind :D

The Irony :)
 
aren't forums fun, totally different to when we meet on the bank, put an angler in its natural enviroment and its a a much friendlier more helpful creature than forums might lead you to believe I think computers are bad for anglers :D
 
Can we just drop the otter debate, it depresses me. (just the word 'otter' and I turn green and uglier than I am already)
 
If only they were veggies!
 
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