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Is it me? Is it real?

Personally do not think that a creature of that size could survive for any length of time without being spotted, and you say that to find another mate to breed would is another thing!!! Of course it is 'another thing' you cannot just hope that these things exist, beyond just a brief period of freedom, if that is the case, and then to actually find a mate, breed, and rear cubs, total fantasy.
You then in your soh way wouldn't mind some humans falling prey to the cats!
Good Lord!

While you ask for evidence of the existence of these creatures in the wild you put no evidence forward of why they could not exist, have you any evidence that they couldn't beyond what you think?

As for finding a mate to breed, if you cared to read my post properly instead of looking for point scoring opportunities you would have seen that I think it would be difficult but not impossible I rule nothing out until it is proven to be impossible.

Again if you were not looking to score infantile points you would have noticed that my line about "some humans" also ended with an emoticon which to others may have been an indication of it being tongue in cheek.

I have absolutely no idea what SOH means so I am unable to comment on that.

I am afraid that there are a few of a dying species left in this world making sightings of the creature rarer than sightings of large cats and although I personally have never seen one I have no doubt whatsoever that they continue to exist.

 
Wild cats.

SOH


Sense of Humour .....

BTW ( By the way ) Graham. I am quite sure that some breed of cats , larger than the biggest domestic animals are at large in the English countryside.
I live on the edge of the Yorkshire Moors,and there are what must be a couple of hundred square miles or more of moorland, farmland, woods,streams, glens and tors to wander over if I choose, there are quite a few old stone quarries near to my home, overgrown, and populated with rabbits, nobody ever wanders there, as there are no public footpaths, no nearby roads or houses, in fact the quarries are just another part of the hundreds of miles of moorland. The quarries belong to a local farmer, who I know , he allows me to wander his land, and rough shoot if I want to.I may see the occasional sheep that has wandered away from its mates , but thats all .One early morning, about 28 years ago, I had finished my night shift at 6.00 am, arrived home at about 6.20, and as usual took the dog, a border collie bitch out for her morning walk, I usually let her run on the fields at the back of the house, this particular day we decided to go a bit further it was a nice morning, dry, clear and warm. I found myself approaching the above quarries, I never really bother with the quarries at all, as there are better and easier places to walk etc, this day , for no other real reason,I decided to go and have a look, maybe there would be a few bunnies worth looking at later..there was a way down into one of the quarries, overgrown, but quite easy to negotiate, Greta was at my side, and left, I saw a few rabbits scrattling around on the grass as I entered the quarry bottom, the place was littered with large rocks, and there were several rock"shelves" probably between 6 to 12 feet from the quarry base, suddenly I realised that Greta was behaving very strangeley, she had obviously gone into "hunting " mode lying close to the ground, head down but looking intently ahead and..... upward toward the rock shelves.
I thought at first she was stalking the rabbits, but rabbits dont climb vertical rocks as far as I know..but suddenly I heard a low feline growl, and looking up I saw that only about 10 feet away from me and just above my eyline there was a large .. very large, cat, it was bigger than my dog, she was of an average size, so I would put the cat at about the size of an Alsation dog. The cat was crouched on the edge of one of the rock shelves, it was a sort of tawny red colour shot through with darker markings,its hair was quite long compared to a normal domestic cat, but not as long as say a Maine Coon cat,this cat was bigger than a Main Coon by at least half again, it had tassells on its ear tips, and it had a long tail that was slowly moving from side to side its tail was striped and quite long for the size of the cat.It seemed at first the cat did not know we were there as it was looking down at the rabbits,I had a clear unobstructed view of this animal from the side,To say I was suprised is an understatement, I stayed very still, and watched for quite a few seconds, the cat was intently watching the rabbits, and very slowly edging forward toward the edge of the rock shelf.
Suddenly Greta started to bark loudly, the cat turned stood up, "snarled" at us, mouth open , turned away and ran off along the rock ledges , I had a clear view of it, it was quite deep in the body, but very agile, it jumped down into the quarry bottom, and disapeared into the jumble of rocks, Greta was off like a shot after it, but the cat was very quick and I only fleetingly saw its tail as it made off amongst the rocks.

I was...... shocked , suprised, flabberghasted, and suddenly it dawned on me that should the cat return it would make mincemeat of Greta,and probably me as well, I chased her across the quarry bottom, managed to catch her , put her on her lead and we quickly left.. on the way home I made a detour to the local farm about two miles away, that owned the quarries, I knew Mally, the farmer quite well, I found him in the milking parlour, and asked him if he had ever lost any lambs or sheep he said that he had lost a couple of lambs earlier in the year, but never found the carcasses, so he put it down to either theft or just that the lambs had wandered off.
I then asked him if he had ever had reason to think there was a predator on his land , he just looked at me, and said .

David , stay away from the quarries ....he refused to be drawn further.

So Neil, call me a liar, call me delusional, say I am confused, say I made it up, say all these things, all I will say is that the above is true. I do not know what kind of cat it was, it had a long tail, and looked similar to a Canadian Lynx.

I have read this thread with interest, but until now have not wanted to be put in the same box as the others who have seen similar incidents, and be called confused etc etc.
But, I know what I saw, and the others who have seen similar things should know there are not alone.
So far as I can tell I am the only person on here to really get up close to what appears to be a non native species, I have scoured the internet many times over the years to identify the type if cat it was, as I say, the nearest I can get to it is a Canadian Lynx, but this cat was stockier.

So.... I know that these creatures can live virtually undetected near to humans, I know that at least one farmer is ( was) aware of the cat . I know that there are enough open wild acres with enough food where I live to be home to one of these creatures.

I am now waiting and wondering what replies I will get to this post.

Dave
 
David , well done for been brave enough to put this account up of your sighting . I too would be interested to see the responses , up to now nobody in the sceptic camp have responded directly to any of the first hand accounts that have been posted on this thread . Reason ? Because it would take a very confident sceptic to state outright that an individuals account of a sighting of this nature is fiction or the work of an over active imagination . Short of a technicolor high resolution film of such a beast this report is yet more confirmation that these large cats are out there
 
Thanks for the SOH explanation Dave I don't speak text speak at all fluently.

There will be those on here that will totally disbelieve your experience, there will be those that will say you saw what you wanted to or that you didn't really see what you thought you saw but the fact is that a number of people have been lucky enough to experience a sighting of a large none domestic cat, some of them have told others of their sighting while others have probably stayed quiet for fear of ridicule, I just as you did know what I saw.

I wonder if there is anyone among those that would say any of the above that would have the fortitude to admit seeing a large cat should they be fortunate enough to see one.
 
If it was 28 years ago then could mean it was one of the animals released in the 70's and early 80's. I think a lynx can live for over 12 years. Bob cats look a lot like Lynx and I believe they can hybridise. Lynx are unlikely to hang around in open moorland areas though, they are very much a woodland animal and seek cover. I think that's the case with a lot of big cats.
 
SOH


Sense of Humour .....

BTW ( By the way ) Graham. I am quite sure that some breed of cats , larger than the biggest domestic animals are at large in the English countryside.
I live on the edge of the Yorkshire Moors,and there are what must be a couple of hundred square miles or more of moorland, farmland, woods,streams, glens and tors to wander over if I choose, there are quite a few old stone quarries near to my home, overgrown, and populated with rabbits, nobody ever wanders there, as there are no public footpaths, no nearby roads or houses, in fact the quarries are just another part of the hundreds of miles of moorland. The quarries belong to a local farmer, who I know , he allows me to wander his land, and rough shoot if I want to.I may see the occasional sheep that has wandered away from its mates , but thats all .One early morning, about 28 years ago, I had finished my night shift at 6.00 am, arrived home at about 6.20, and as usual took the dog, a border collie bitch out for her morning walk, I usually let her run on the fields at the back of the house, this particular day we decided to go a bit further it was a nice morning, dry, clear and warm. I found myself approaching the above quarries, I never really bother with the quarries at all, as there are better and easier places to walk etc, this day , for no other real reason,I decided to go and have a look, maybe there would be a few bunnies worth looking at later..there was a way down into one of the quarries, overgrown, but quite easy to negotiate, Greta was at my side, and left, I saw a few rabbits scrattling around on the grass as I entered the quarry bottom, the place was littered with large rocks, and there were several rock"shelves" probably between 6 to 12 feet from the quarry base, suddenly I realised that Greta was behaving very strangeley, she had obviously gone into "hunting " mode lying close to the ground, head down but looking intently ahead and..... upward toward the rock shelves.
I thought at first she was stalking the rabbits, but rabbits dont climb vertical rocks as far as I know..but suddenly I heard a low feline growl, and looking up I saw that only about 10 feet away from me and just above my eyline there was a large .. very large, cat, it was bigger than my dog, she was of an average size, so I would put the cat at about the size of an Alsation dog. The cat was crouched on the edge of one of the rock shelves, it was a sort of tawny red colour shot through with darker markings,its hair was quite long compared to a normal domestic cat, but not as long as say a Maine Coon cat,this cat was bigger than a Main Coon by at least half again, it had tassells on its ear tips, and it had a long tail that was slowly moving from side to side its tail was striped and quite long for the size of the cat.It seemed at first the cat did not know we were there as it was looking down at the rabbits,I had a clear unobstructed view of this animal from the side,To say I was suprised is an understatement, I stayed very still, and watched for quite a few seconds, the cat was intently watching the rabbits, and very slowly edging forward toward the edge of the rock shelf.
Suddenly Greta started to bark loudly, the cat turned stood up, "snarled" at us, mouth open , turned away and ran off along the rock ledges , I had a clear view of it, it was quite deep in the body, but very agile, it jumped down into the quarry bottom, and disapeared into the jumble of rocks, Greta was off like a shot after it, but the cat was very quick and I only fleetingly saw its tail as it made off amongst the rocks.

I was...... shocked , suprised, flabberghasted, and suddenly it dawned on me that should the cat return it would make mincemeat of Greta,and probably me as well, I chased her across the quarry bottom, managed to catch her , put her on her lead and we quickly left.. on the way home I made a detour to the local farm about two miles away, that owned the quarries, I knew Mally, the farmer quite well, I found him in the milking parlour, and asked him if he had ever lost any lambs or sheep he said that he had lost a couple of lambs earlier in the year, but never found the carcasses, so he put it down to either theft or just that the lambs had wandered off.
I then asked him if he had ever had reason to think there was a predator on his land , he just looked at me, and said .

David , stay away from the quarries ....he refused to be drawn further.

So Neil, call me a liar, call me delusional, say I am confused, say I made it up, say all these things, all I will say is that the above is true. I do not know what kind of cat it was, it had a long tail, and looked similar to a Canadian Lynx.

I have read this thread with interest, but until now have not wanted to be put in the same box as the others who have seen similar incidents, and be called confused etc etc.
But, I know what I saw, and the others who have seen similar things should know there are not alone.
So far as I can tell I am the only person on here to really get up close to what appears to be a non native species, I have scoured the internet many times over the years to identify the type if cat it was, as I say, the nearest I can get to it is a Canadian Lynx, but this cat was stockier.

So.... I know that these creatures can live virtually undetected near to humans, I know that at least one farmer is ( was) aware of the cat . I know that there are enough open wild acres with enough food where I live to be home to one of these creatures.

I am now waiting and wondering what replies I will get to this post.

Dave
From your account it was a Lynx...Look I am NOT disbelieving cats have been sighted, and the accounts on here are pretty convincing...HOWEVER my point is not that big cats have not had their freedom, of course that is feasible, what is NOT is their ability to survive let alone breed.
As a kid I had my hands on a Coypu, it was beside a small stream in Bristol, how it got there I don't know, I have also seen and held exotic non native Lizards, but they do not breed, as yet anyway.
I am totally not convinced that any large feline could live beyond a few months in the wild, and as said the evidence that they have done would be pretty convincing, as yet there is no clear evidence....is there? And that is the only certain thing about this debate!!
 
Fascinating account David, thanks.

The question of photographic evidence got me thinking, despite seeing hundreds of them I've never had a decent photo of an otter or of the half a dozen times that a kingfisher has landed on my rod tip.
 
Hi men ,

Pics of an otter is too easy , I had one that thought I was congratulating him while I clapped wildly above him as he dived over the baited spot on the Kennet , unfortunately Sue never found it so bloody funny , she cried , and she has all but given up fishing for barbel.

Kingfishers , that's slightly different , they play this game where they let you get your phone almost to the right height , squeak and wiz off . They get back to their nests and have a good laugh at teasing us so.

Big cats , they seem to dress in real tree camo :D


Hatter.
 
Thanks for the SOH explanation Dave I don't speak text speak at all fluently.

There will be those on here that will totally disbelieve your experience, there will be those that will say you saw what you wanted to or that you didn't really see what you thought you saw but the fact is that a number of people have been lucky enough to experience a sighting of a large none domestic cat, some of them have told others of their sighting while others have probably stayed quiet for fear of ridicule, I just as you did know what I saw.

I wonder if there is anyone among those that would say any of the above that would have the fortitude to admit seeing a large cat should they be fortunate enough to see one.

Graham for goodness sake the argument is not that cats have never been released into the wild, and it would follow that they have been observed, I am willing to concede that, although not as many as the more 'liberal' thinkers might want to satisfy there beliefs. The problem I have is survival of these poor creatures, I cannot see for one minute that they would be able to survive beyond a very short period before succumbing to the habitat that is the British Isles. Consider the road systems account for many kills, being mostly nocturnal hunters why is there no reported road kills?

The most rare of species die in this manner. You might see there is a pattern emerging here, you and others are adamant that they do exist/ breed without a shred of evidence, I think therefore the case for Big Cat should be filed alongside the likes of the Loch Ness Monster, the Headless Horseman and a picture of a Jeff Collins Barbel:)

They don't exist.....:p
 
Graham for goodness sake the argument is not that cats have never been released into the wild, and it would follow that they have been observed, I am willing to concede that, although not as many as the more 'liberal' thinkers might want to satisfy there beliefs. The problem I have is survival of these poor creatures, I cannot see for one minute that they would be able to survive beyond a very short period before succumbing to the habitat that is the British Isles. Consider the road systems account for many kills, being mostly nocturnal hunters why is there no reported road kills?

The most rare of species die in this manner. You might see there is a pattern emerging here, you and others are adamant that they do exist/ breed without a shred of evidence, I think therefore the case for Big Cat should be filed alongside the likes of the Loch Ness Monster, the Headless Horseman and a picture of a Jeff Collins Barbel:)

They don't exist.....:p


I thought of you this weekend as I was eating my chips from the Tewkesbury friar (very average chip shop) and I've offered to send you pictures of barbel caught. I don't quite know why you are so bitter or what you have against me, but that night I pulled in two good barbel and forgot it all.
Perhaps you should step away from the keyboard and do a bit of bank time......I'll even let you in on the secret of my success. ....


Time multiplied by effort equals rewards.

Your welcome kid
 
Fascinating account David, thanks.

The question of photographic evidence got me thinking, despite seeing hundreds of them I've never had a decent photo of an otter or of the half a dozen times that a kingfisher has landed on my rod tip.

Gavin i have photos of kingfishers as i went out to take them, as for otters i have not done this so do not have any photos but if i did in time i would get one...but there are people who are out there looking to take photos of big cats but as yet none have succeeded - why? I am sure that individuals have seen big cats as there is no dispute that some have been released/escaped in the past but if one extrapolated from this thread to the general population the number of sightings it would be a huge number and surely at least one person would have got a good image...
 
Paul, point taken, but, and it is a big but, how many photographers would invest time and money in trying for the almost impossible.... it was pointed out earlier that to make a TV programme about rare species takes months of work for seconds of viewable air time, given that non native species cats are at large, but almost impossible to pinpoint location, due to the dearth of reliable reports, the photographer would have to be a rare beast himself to spend that much time for an image he may or may not get.

Dave
 
I've just been reading about the Scottish Wild Action project which has placed 347 trail cameras in five specific areas in Scotland. In 60 days they identified at least 19 wildcats based on coat markings. That's pretty good going when you consider just how allusive Scottish Wildcats are, some experts reckon there are less than 100 of them left.

http://www.scottishwildcataction.org/latest-news/2016/august/news-scottish-wildcats-are-out-there/

Elsewhere, across the UK ecologists are using similar techniques to monitor Pine Martens, Badgers and other mammals.

So far no 'big cat' sightings.
 
From your account it was a Lynx...Look I am NOT disbelieving cats have been sighted, and the accounts on here are pretty convincing...HOWEVER my point is not that big cats have not had their freedom, of course that is feasible, what is NOT is their ability to survive let alone breed.
As a kid I had my hands on a Coypu, it was beside a small stream in Bristol, how it got there I don't know, I have also seen and held exotic non native Lizards, but they do not breed, as yet anyway.
I am totally not convinced that any large feline could live beyond a few months in the wild, and as said the evidence that they have done would be pretty convincing, as yet there is no clear evidence....is there? And that is the only certain thing about this debate!!

And your evidence for that very firm statement is?
 
Graham for goodness sake the argument is not that cats have never been released into the wild, and it would follow that they have been observed, I am willing to concede that, although not as many as the more 'liberal' thinkers might want to satisfy there beliefs. The problem I have is survival of these poor creatures, I cannot see for one minute that they would be able to survive beyond a very short period before succumbing to the habitat that is the British Isles. Consider the road systems account for many kills, being mostly nocturnal hunters why is there no reported road kills?

The most rare of species die in this manner. You might see there is a pattern emerging here, you and others are adamant that they do exist/ breed without a shred of evidence, I think therefore the case for Big Cat should be filed alongside the likes of the Loch Ness Monster, the Headless Horseman and a picture of a Jeff Collins Barbel:)

They don't exist.....:p

Can you point me to where I said they breed please as I don't remember that although I would never discount anything as not being possible in nature, the truth is that nobody knows.
 
Can you point me to where I said they breed please as I don't remember that although I would never discount anything as not being possible in nature, the truth is that nobody knows.

Then we agree, that these Cats might have probably have could have been released, I can concur with that, also that sightings would be a reasonable thing to expect, my point is that any long term survival and breeding is not reasonable to expect.

But your caveat is 'anything is possible in nature, and the truth is nobody knows'.
 
Then we agree, that these Cats might have probably have could have been released, I can concur with that, also that sightings would be a reasonable thing to expect, my point is that any long term survival and breeding is not reasonable to expect.

But your caveat is 'anything is possible in nature, and the truth is nobody knows'.

Lot of haves in that garbled blurb.;)
 
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