David Hall
Senior Member
it's amazing that so many people are up in arms about water meter's, but quiet happy with gas and electric meters.:confused:
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Flooding and drought?
- Thread starter Graham Elliott
- Start date
Nigel Gray
Senior Member
Ain't that the truth Ray.
The Great Weir on the Royalty had all gates fully open on Tuesday.
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Colin Bridger
Senior Member
We have lived in three houses with water meters, on the Isle of Wight (where every property has a meter), Norfolk, and Essex. We are: me, my wife, and teenage daughter, and have found water bills much cheaper than non metered.
Howard Hutchins
Senior Member
NB: heritage does not mean living in the past at all.[/QUOTE]
n] hereditary succession to a title or an office or property
2.[n] any attribute or immaterial possession that is inherited from ancestors; "my only inheritance was my mother's blessing"; "the world's heritage of knowledge"
3.[n] practices that are handed down from the past by tradition; "a heritage of freedom"
4.[n] that which is inherited; a title or property or estate that passes by law to the heir on the death of the owner
Really,wonder how you worked that out
n] hereditary succession to a title or an office or property
2.[n] any attribute or immaterial possession that is inherited from ancestors; "my only inheritance was my mother's blessing"; "the world's heritage of knowledge"
3.[n] practices that are handed down from the past by tradition; "a heritage of freedom"
4.[n] that which is inherited; a title or property or estate that passes by law to the heir on the death of the owner
Really,wonder how you worked that out
Ray Walton
Senior Member
Tone Quote:Legal point - Water is free. You can have as much as you like
However, if you want it collected, treated, delivered, surplus taken away etc, i'm afraid you have to pay. Bummer, i know. But there we have it.
Not totaly free Tone! In the UK, you have to apply for an Environment Agency river, lake borehole water 'Abstraction License' for raw untreated water and there is a pretty huge cost adding up fees, depending on how much you want to take i'm afraid. Taking of surface and borehole water is well regulated and the EA must advertise each application in the public domain for objections to the abstraction! http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/regulation/38809.aspx
and check the water abstraction calculator:http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Business/Abstraction_charge_calculator.xls
Obviously different if you collect it in your garden butt though!
However, if you want it collected, treated, delivered, surplus taken away etc, i'm afraid you have to pay. Bummer, i know. But there we have it.
Not totaly free Tone! In the UK, you have to apply for an Environment Agency river, lake borehole water 'Abstraction License' for raw untreated water and there is a pretty huge cost adding up fees, depending on how much you want to take i'm afraid. Taking of surface and borehole water is well regulated and the EA must advertise each application in the public domain for objections to the abstraction! http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/regulation/38809.aspx
and check the water abstraction calculator:http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Business/Abstraction_charge_calculator.xls
Obviously different if you collect it in your garden butt though!
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Nigel Gray
Senior Member
Not quite right there Ray, i'm pretty sure you only need a licence if you extract more than 4,000 gallons (20 cubic metres) a day.
Ray Walton
Senior Member
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
Tone's post above makes a lot of sense. Unlikely therefore to convince those who live in a world of conspiracy theories sadly.
I would add that water remains too cheap in the UK. The full costs of providing water are still subsidised in many ways by the hard pressed taxpayer. UK based investors have been unwilling to invest in water companies (hence our almost complete reliance on overseas investors) as they can make far higher profits from property and banking.
People who seem to think it immoral in some way to actually seek to make a profit from their investments are welcome to give me their cash and I will give them nothing in return.
Until our basic industries are able to generate profit for investors at a rate higher than the returns that can be got from building supermarkets and cardboard houses then we will rely on German and Chinese capital countries which take a longer term view.
Or we could let George Galloway run the country, a plan that was so successful in the old Soviet Union and present day North Korea.
I would add that water remains too cheap in the UK. The full costs of providing water are still subsidised in many ways by the hard pressed taxpayer. UK based investors have been unwilling to invest in water companies (hence our almost complete reliance on overseas investors) as they can make far higher profits from property and banking.
People who seem to think it immoral in some way to actually seek to make a profit from their investments are welcome to give me their cash and I will give them nothing in return.
Until our basic industries are able to generate profit for investors at a rate higher than the returns that can be got from building supermarkets and cardboard houses then we will rely on German and Chinese capital countries which take a longer term view.
Or we could let George Galloway run the country, a plan that was so successful in the old Soviet Union and present day North Korea.
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Stephen Whyte
Senior Member
No mention of Cuba Pete, that usually gets chucked into that mix so that we can see how generous and wonderful greedy b@stards are.
Joe Fletcher
No Longer a Member
Nigel its seems that you are correct in your statement .
You only need a licence if you are extracting more than 4,000 gallons a day .
Environment Agency - Do you need a licence?
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
I quite like Cuba...the sun, sea and old cars always made up for the lack of consumer goods and when I last visted it wasn't as beurocratic as the UK! However my travels in real living socialist countries, back in the 1980's made me more than happy to live in the capitalist west
Stephen Whyte
Senior Member
I quite like Cuba...the sun, sea and old cars always made up for the lack of consumer goods and when I last visted it wasn't as beurocratic as the UK! However my travels in real living socialist countries, back in the 1980's made me more than happy to live in the capitalist west
"Old cars", is it not necessary to chuck stuff away these days and keep the wheels of the capitalist west well "oiled"
Everyday i learn something new I like Cuba too, the old cars and the Rum mainly
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
The people up in arms are always those who use loads and loads of water and enjoy being subsidised by those who use little. I saved quite a bit when I had a meter fitted, however I still see neighbours who use loads of water for car washing, watering the lawns etc and they don't have a meter. Make them and we will soon see water usage go down.
It is usually the same people who moan about water meters as moan about re cycling. They can't be bothered to re cycle, so want their bins collected every five minutes and I have too pay for it! I'd introduce rubbish metering as well
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Pete. re Cycling.
Every day down my road cars are queued up, pumping out fumes, behind someone thinking they are saving the world on a bike. Should be stopped.
Tone. You only want water for that loveboat........eek: ) Hipe to see you next season out with the heavyweight again.
Every day down my road cars are queued up, pumping out fumes, behind someone thinking they are saving the world on a bike. Should be stopped.
Tone. You only want water for that loveboat........
eek: ) Hipe to see you next season out with the heavyweight again.Mick Holtom
Senior Member & Supporter
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Every day down my road cars are queued up, pumping out fumes, behind someone thinking they are saving the world on a bike. Should be stopped.I wish I had been following a bike when I got pinched for speeding a
100 yards past your house Graham
Micky
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Mick. So did I. And My neighbour...twice. and 3 of my pals.......
Clever. Immediately you hit the 30 limit from 40mph if you have not got down to that speed within 20 yards...Bang from the van hidden around the bend!
I was doing a grand speed of 34mph m'lud! Guilty of course but a very unpleasant smell and hard to feel pro the Law!
Lost lots of middle England and respect through that type of sneaky approach anyway I'm afraid.
Clever. Immediately you hit the 30 limit from 40mph if you have not got down to that speed within 20 yards...Bang from the van hidden around the bend!
I was doing a grand speed of 34mph m'lud! Guilty of course but a very unpleasant smell and hard to feel pro the Law!
Lost lots of middle England and respect through that type of sneaky approach anyway I'm afraid.
David Gauntlett
Senior Member
The people up in arms are always those who use loads and loads of water and enjoy being subsidised by those who use little. I saved quite a bit when I had a meter fitted, however I still see neighbours who use loads of water for car washing, watering the lawns etc and they don't have a meter. Make them and we will soon see water usage go down.
It is usually the same people who moan about water meters as moan about re cycling. They can't be bothered to re cycle, so want their bins collected every five minutes and I have too pay for it! I'd introduce rubbish metering as well
Pete, I have to say I am always impressed by your post's....but none more so than this masterpiece
So..."The people up in arms are always those who use loads and loads of water and enjoy being subsidised by those who use little."......
Just in case these villains are still unsure whether you are talking about them (possibly because you may have worked out for yourself that the fairly ordinary folk you were insulting may somehow have failed to identify with the monsters you describe) you have kindly offered a few more clues....it seems they are the very same people "who moan about re cycling. They can't be bothered to re cycle, so want their bins collected every five minutes and I have too pay for it!" I won't swear to it Pete, but I think you may have nailed it mate....cough
My oh my....what a very, very nasty lot we complainers are fella. I honestly had no idea that I was that feckless. Ah well, all I can do is apologise....really, I do....but I fear I am too old to change the habits of a lifetime now. However unspeakable it may seem, I shall just carry on taking showers (I haven't taken a bath for years) turning the tap off while I am cleaning my teeth, cleaning the wife's car twice a year or less (with a bucket), watering my garden rarely, and never with a hose (done all that for years as well)...not flushing when I pee....and all that other wasteful stuff.
Sadly, I will also probably be selfish enough to carry on recycling everything I can in the receptacles in the local car park, on our way to do our shopping, to save on petrol....despite the fact that this dreadful habit will only leave, at most, one half full black bag for the bin men to collect, with no bags at all fairly often
Can you imagine how unwanted that makes the poor souls feel?....damn, I feel Soooo guilty....how can you ever forgive me for these dastardly acts Pete Never mind mate, only pulling your leg. I am sure you are right. I mean, you wouldn't make wild accusations like that unless you were............no, lets not go there
Cheers, Dave.
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Nigel Gray
Senior Member
So if water metering results in water costing more, as some have suggested will be the case and I wouldn't argue against them, then I'd guess that people will become more aware of their household's consumption and will take steps to ensure that they don't waste water and start to think of it in the same way as they do electricity and gas instead of an unlimited resource that has a fixed cost to them.
As an angler and someone whose livelihood depends on heathy rivers I actually think that's a good thing. Reduced consumption equals reduced extraction.
As an angler and someone whose livelihood depends on heathy rivers I actually think that's a good thing. Reduced consumption equals reduced extraction.
Ray Walton
Senior Member
Nigel quote: Reduced consumption equals reduced extraction.
Nigel...So what would be the outcome of that to the Water Company income and profit.
Less water used yes = but less water sold! = Less income!
Also the poorer of British Public would suffer as they could not afford it, like gas and electric, petrol etc!
Again the Rich would use just as much as before because they can afford it!
As Pete Marshall has stated that he has ‘saved’ £250 a year by using a Water Meter for his house , if we all did the same, do you think that Water Companies and their shareholders would be prepared to sacrifice losing £6.25 Billion+ (minimum) of their annual income - plus the costs of installation of ‘free’ water meters in at least 25Million Homes in the UK. The loss figure of £6.25 Billion+ does not include business premises, office buildings, Industry and other commercial sectors which should be metered also, which will increase the loss to water companies and their shareholders many fold.
According to the report, climate change will lead to increased demand for water, causing a dramatic increase in water prices over the years. Many water companies are already moving away from fixed charges, instead charging their customers on the amount consumed. Water bills are now predicted to rise by as much as 5% a year for some households. The Foundation claims that these increases will make water unaffordable for some families.
Read More of this report : Four million households ‘water poor’ « The Water Guide
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Nigel...So what would be the outcome of that to the Water Company income and profit.
Less water used yes = but less water sold! = Less income!
Also the poorer of British Public would suffer as they could not afford it, like gas and electric, petrol etc!
Again the Rich would use just as much as before because they can afford it!
As Pete Marshall has stated that he has ‘saved’ £250 a year by using a Water Meter for his house , if we all did the same, do you think that Water Companies and their shareholders would be prepared to sacrifice losing £6.25 Billion+ (minimum) of their annual income - plus the costs of installation of ‘free’ water meters in at least 25Million Homes in the UK. The loss figure of £6.25 Billion+ does not include business premises, office buildings, Industry and other commercial sectors which should be metered also, which will increase the loss to water companies and their shareholders many fold.
According to the report, climate change will lead to increased demand for water, causing a dramatic increase in water prices over the years. Many water companies are already moving away from fixed charges, instead charging their customers on the amount consumed. Water bills are now predicted to rise by as much as 5% a year for some households. The Foundation claims that these increases will make water unaffordable for some families.
Read More of this report : Four million households ‘water poor’ « The Water Guide
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David Gauntlett
Senior Member
True enough Nigel, a very valid point....as far as it goes. But then, if we follow that logic, then why not put the price of food up to silly levels....make it so expensive that we could only afford the minimal amount to barely exist....that would solve the obesity problem in one hit wouldn't it
Wouldn't do much for the families already on the bread line, or the kids already officially rated as clinically under nourished....but hey, you can't please everyone all the time Seriously though, if I am following your logic correctly, you feel that the government should allow profit driven suppliers to put up the price of a product as they saw fit, as a means of restricting use to a level deemed to be acceptable, based on 'essential needs'. Inevitably then, that logic would soon lead to ALL non essentials being priced utterly beyond the reach of all but the very rich, on the grounds that they were luxuries. Of course, that would sadly mean that sales of fishing tackle and all other sporting goods would fall through the floor
Never mind though, can't be helped.....
Just my take on it fella
Cheers, Dave.