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Fish killer - a surprising culprit, you say?

Graham Elliott said:
Otters eat fish along with other things.

There are more otters than there have been for a long time.

They tend to eat the rich oil contents first, like fish livers.

There have been a number of Incidents of fish dragged up the bank and the livers eaten.

The*re have been a number of incidents reported on this site of dead fish and fish with ripped tails.

If anyone else has seen half a dozen barbel come out of the water from 14ft deep chased by a big dog otter on the Severn, they will realise the impact the otter can potentially make on fish stocks.

On the smaller rivers the fish population has suffered. Kennet/Great Ouse/Bristol Avon/Wensum/Teme for example.

The larger rivers it seems have generally managed to see less of an impact.

The Otter population will even out according to food availablility, not withstanding inland raids on kept fish.

We have no real choice but to live with it.

Graham
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I agree entirely Graham.

The whole point of my arguments has always been that it's not the otters that are wrong, it's the timing thats wrong. if our rivers were returned to their once healthy state, it would automatically follow that we would soon have healthy fish stocks too. That being so, otters would be no problem at all, they would in fact be a very welcome part of the hoped for return of our countryside to it's natural state . Simples then? Should be, but the fly in the ointment is that this very desirable state is something that MAY come about some time in the future....but unhelpful numbers of otters is now!

There would seem to be too many vested interests to overcome, too many obstacles in the way for that happy state of healthy rivers to come about any time soon. It's absolutely worth fighting to try and bring it about, because it's certainly a worthy target to strive for, but I doubt I will ever see it.

So, for you guys who will continue to be affected by this issue, I fear Graham's final statemnt is most probably true. You will just have to learn to live with it.

Or....you could carry on shouting :D In fact, if you are a better man than me, you could get out there and do something that might REALLY make a difference.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Problem there Jason, because that would make me a better man than me...which would be a paradox. However, I would point out that forums are intended to be places where you can 'spout' as you put it...that is EXACTLY what they are for. So if it's OK with you, I will carry on putting this forum to it's proper use.

In the meantime, I shall enjoy reading the list of heroic things you have done to improve your hobby and the lot of anglers in general. Will it be soon though, because my tea is ready?

Cheers, Dave.
 
What i am struggling with is this halcyon past when rivers were in a so called better state...40 years ago fishing in Yorkshire certain rivers were unfishable eg the Don, the Calder was not much better or the Aire in Leeds - these are all so much better now. If we are talking of 10-20 years ago when we had the plethora of large barbel in what seems a limited number of rivers, I fished the upper Medway when it was the record water, perhaps this was not the norm and it was an anomaly down to who knows what, yet we now think it is what the rivers should be like - remember how long the record of 14.6 stood. The upper Medway has not as far as i know returned to the pinnacle of the 90's yet this is not due solely to otters. The whole picture to my mind is incredibly complex, with changes to the whole fresh water ecosystem, and 'we' seem to be focusing on one apex predator as the main culprit when actually although no doubt they have feasted on a number of, what some might argue are unnaturally, big fish (and why wouldn't they - bigger often means slower so easier to catch), the key as in all food chains starts at the bottom. Decimate level 1 and any ecosystem is going to struggle to survive with insufficient food in the subsequent trophic levels to feed those at the top, which of course is us in most cases. I would bet that if we could undertake the research required and compare rivers that somewhere like the Wye is a much healthier river than the Thames and this would have nothing to do with otters. Otters have become a visible red herring in the fight for better rivers it seems to me...
 
Oh dear Paul, we have been all through this SO many times we are in danger of rushing around in ever decreasing circles until we disappear up our own botties. NOBODY is claiming that otters are the main culprit responsible for the decline in barbel numbers, we all acknowledge that there are numerouse factors that contribute to the problem.


I would suggest that these are quite probably the stages through which one of the typical rivers of the type under recent discussion go through.

(1) Pollution levels will have damaged the fish, including some chemicals which can severly reduce their ability to spawn successfully. When they do have the will to spawn, they will often find their traditional gravel beds completely silted over.

(2) Should they find somewhere to spawn, the meager amount of viable spawn that is produced is, in many cases, decimated by carpets of non indigenous crayfish. Much of the rest will fungus due to the heavy biological pollutiuon load in the water.

(3) The fry from the few eggs that do hatch will face all the normal hazards, plus many new ones. Lack of the correct size of food items (because those critters too have succumed to the pollution), will kill off many of them. The crayfish will take many of them too.

(4) The fry that do make it through all this will have compramised immune systems, again due to the type of pollution they now face. Many will succumb to disease as a result.

(5) The tiny number that get this far will again face all the usual hazards, + some new ones. New types of pollution aside, there are relatively new predators to face too. Zander, mink, never before seen numbers of cormorants...even catfish in some cases, and no doubt a few I haven't thought of.

(6)There will at times be some entire years classes that never reach it to this stage, but those who do will be in a pretty unique position. There are so few of them that even the reduced levels of natural foodstuff now available will be more than enough to go round, and even better, they don't have to fight hoards of rivals to get to it...barbel nirvana = BIG fish.

(7)The final stage....the artificially accelerated return of Tarka the otter descends upon them. The vast majority of these barbel will never have seen one of these huge predators in their entire lives. Either way, they have NO defence against them. As a result, those few huge old warriors that remain will be wiped out entirely, in a very short space of time. They battled their way for all those years against all the man made horrors that they were faced with...and finally have their throats ripped out, because man has interfered yet again.

True, they were probably doomed to die out anyway...but it is just possible that the conditions in their river may have improved, as has happened elsewhere. They may then have been able to spawn successfully once more. Ah well, never mind.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Neil Smart said:
Surely before posting this you might understand that since 2004 it has been illegal to hunt with dogs for Mammals in this country.
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The local mink hounds were out on the Somerley Estate this month Neil.

rEujE44.jpg


Avon Diary 2015
 
Graham Elliott said:
So werre they doing something illegal as :rolleyes: has stated?
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They pose more threat to anglers lunch and bait according to the article, which also states the Mink Hounds?? are pretty much redundant as the Otter has sorted them out....see every cloud, every cloud Gaz. :)
 
It is , the article says they are just hunting rats and ''pinpointing '' likely places where the mink may be holed up . Totally innocent pastime .....:)
 
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