Combi rig components

[Chris Belcher]

The stretches i fish you'd do well to get 10 fish a season !! Big barbel heavily fished for im sure can be a bit cagey and if i can stack the odds in my favour by tweaking rigs and borrowing ideas from the carp world i will

Ditto - 10 fish per session is cheating! I'm on a small private stretch of the otter ravished Warwickshire Avon and a fish a session would see me as Trefor West re-born. . .anything over 10lb is a beast . . .I'm going to use Terry's gangions rig if necessary!

 

[Paul Collins]

The point I was trying to make was that hook links make no difference whatsoever to Barbel captures.
If using some complicated hooklink construction gives you confidence, that's the best thing to increase your catch rate there can be.
Confidence in your method is the most important thing in angling.
I've found that plain nylon hooklinks are as good as anything else.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Mid doubles are rare things round this neck of the woods , I have caught Barbel to 12lb and I have always found the larger ones to be a bit ploddy in the fight , however an 8lb or 9lb Nidd nutter now they can shift . I have dragged whole tree branches out of the river with 12lb big game line, it takes some busting ,I look forward to be tested my a mid double , one can but dream ....

The conditions and river type make the difference to how she responds. I’ve had one or two exceed the 12lb mark in 4foot of crystal clear water on tiny little rivers and backwaters and they shift with an immense amount of power. It’s anything but a plod. My friend this season hooked one on 15lb korda sublne in the swim next to me with a (moment of madness) completely locked up clutch and it obliterated him in less than 5 seconds. Coloured dark or deep water where their vision isn’t at their strongest they tend to be a bit more easy on the gas.

 

[Neil Smart]

'

The point I was trying to make was that hook links make no difference whatsoever to Barbel captures.
If using some complicated hooklink construction gives you confidence, that's the best thing to increase your catch rate there can be.
Confidence in your method is the most important thing in angling.
I've found that plain nylon hooklinks are as good as anything else.

100% Paul.

 

[Chris Thomson]

"The point I was trying to make was that hook links make no difference whatsoever to Barbel captures." says Paul


Thats quite a sweeping statement , i dont agree but im not going to argue/debate as it looks as though those who favour simple rigs are entrenched in their belief as i am that thinking outside the box can work in my favour and nothing i say will alter that , my original post was a question on the pros and cons of different materials not on whether a nylon hooklink is preferable to a combi rig

 

[Paul Collins]

Like I said, the rig you use and the confidence in it is the most important factor in catching any fish. If you think using a certain material hooklink catches you more fish that's likely going to be as important as anything else.
In an unusual situation I've found that rigs make virtually no difference at all
Location is the key.

 

[Paul Collins]

Like I said, the rig you use and the confidence in it is the most important factor in catching any fish. If you think using a certain material hooklink catches you more fish that's likely going to be as important as anything else.
In an unusual situation I've found that rigs make virtually no difference at all
Location is the key.

 

[Paul Collins]

Like I said, the rig you use and the confidence in it is the most important factor in catching any fish. If you think using a certain material hooklink catches you more fish that's likely going to be as important as anything else.
In an unusual situation I've found that rigs make virtually no difference at all
Location is the key.

 

[Terry Simner]

Like I said, the rig you use and the confidence in it is the most important factor in catching any fish. If you think using a certain material hooklink catches you more fish that's likely going to be as important as anything else.
In an unusual situation I've found that rigs make virtually no difference at all
Location is the key.

Well if I was catching 10 barbel per hour like you are Paul ... 1/. I'd not change my location and 2/. I'd only fish for an hour

 

[Paul Collins]

It's after dark in December, off at 6.00pm and I don't do it very often. Maybe once a year to test out some new tackle.
If you've got a severe Barbel itch it's a great place to sooth it.
It is a great place to test rigs though.

 

[Chris Belcher]

Like I said, the rig you use and the confidence in it is the most important factor in catching any fish. If you think using a certain material hooklink catches you more fish that's likely going to be as important as anything else.
In an unusual situation I've found that rigs make virtually no difference at all
Location is the key.

So good you said it thrice lol! I agree with the confidence bit totally - we should all repeat what we've had the most consistent success with - and with rigs that is always usually the best policy. However I'm not sure I totally agree with this edict - especially the use of mono hooklinks used blanket fashion for all situations / waters.

You and others infer you don't believe barbel are picky and therefore simple mono vs complex xmas tree rigs make zero difference in terms of bite conversion? Fine - I'll take that point . . .

However, the abrasion resistance of mono is lesser than that of a decent fluro of the same diameter. It is also less abrasion resistant than a coated braid of a lesser diameter. On the premise that a hard fighting fish 'could' take you into snags / wrap round a rock / pull you into a reedbed, why would you risk using it . .? As stated the two other materials have % advantages - fluro sinks better (think pinning everything down mentioned by Richard) and will take more abuse - coated braids (eg sinking variants like Sink link) also sink better, are thinner (maybe more natural) and are also more abrasion resistant.

If hooklink materials genuinely make no difference to either presentation or bite conversion but the above two materials are more hardy, then why on earth would you not use them . . .even if you save one fish from snapping you off in 100 its still a % difference and therefore an edge / advantage . . . .!!!

 

[Richard Isaacs]

@Chris Thomson why are you getting so defensive because not everyone agrees a combi rig is necessary. So what if people like to keep things simple and offer valid points as to why that is. You are only doing exactly the same in the for combi rig camp and I certainly ain’t offended by that.
There is nothing wrong with the thread you’ve started or any of the posts that have been put in it. The whole thread has remained on topic, in good friendly spirit afew jokes and a bit of harmless Micky taking but more importantly I’m finding the content from both sides of the fence good to read.

 

[Neil Smart]

So good you said it thrice lol! I agree with the confidence bit totally - we should all repeat what we've had the most consistent success with - and with rigs that is always usually the best policy. However I'm not sure I totally agree with this edict - especially the use of mono hooklinks used blanket fashion for all situations / waters.

You and others infer you don't believe barbel are picky and therefore simple mono vs complex xmas tree rigs make zero difference in terms of bite conversion? Fine - I'll take that point . . .

However, the abrasion resistance of mono is lesser than that of a decent fluro of the same diameter. It is also less abrasion resistant than a coated braid of a lesser diameter. On the premise that a hard fighting fish 'could' take you into snags / wrap round a rock / pull you into a reedbed, why would you risk using it . .? As stated the two other materials have % advantages - fluro sinks better (think pinning everything down mentioned by Richard) and will take more abuse - coated braids (eg sinking variants like Sink link) also sink better, are thinner (maybe more natural) and are also more abrasion resistant.

If hooklink materials genuinely make no difference to either presentation or bite conversion but the above two materials are more hardy, then why on earth would you not use them . . .even if you save one fish from snapping you off in 100 its still a % difference and therefore an edge / advantage . . . .!!!

But I is abrasion really a thing? Given that a competent angler will continually check the viability of the end rig, I don't see why we have to worry about adding so much extra furniture to our rigs. For me the goal is to present a bait to a fish that acts in a natural manner, i.e. a free offering that unless they snaffle, another fish will.
It's called Angling.

 

[Chris Thomson]

@Chris Thomson why are you getting so defensive because not everyone agrees a combi rig is necessary. So what if people like to keep things simple and offer valid points as to why that is. You are only doing exactly the same in the for combi rig camp and I certainly ain’t offended by that.
There is nothing wrong with the thread you’ve started or any of the posts that have been put in it. The whole thread has remained on topic, in good friendly spirit afew jokes and a bit of harmless Micky taking but more importantly I’m finding the content from both sides of the fence good to read.

The beauty of fishing somewhere like the hants avon is the clear water gives me opportunities of watching at close quarters barbel feeding and im amazed at how often a barbel can pick up and drop a baited rig , dont forget some of these big barbel have been caught before , more than a few times some of them , and they are not necessarily the "grabbers" that you suggest they are . Somewhere like the wye or severn or trent then perhaps a simple mono hooklink may suffice but i find the statement that a simple mono rig as the be all and end all of rigs as underestimating how cute pressured big fish can be. I try and tip the balance in my favour by using rigs that may be more complicated in the slim hope it might just grab hold in the mouth either going in or being ejected and give me a hookhold, so i get a bit defensive when some posters suggest these over engineered rigs are unnecessary and not needed when in my humble opinion they are in some circumstances . If i think leadcore will give me an advantage i will use it, ive done the research and i know the dangers of incorrect use and make sure the safety angle is covered , ive had some success using wafter hookbaits which again i think might tip the balance in my favour as the mechanics of how a wafter works as opposed to a standard bottom bait suggests that the bait may be taken further back in the mouth and that it may improve the hooking capability . In short im fishing for big pressured fish that may or may not just be more suspicious of hookbaits than say a wye or severn fish and i'll adapt my rigs and bait accordingly. If a simple type rig works every time for you on the waters you fish then happy day s but where i fish i need an edge and more involved rigs may give me the results im after, if i thought a pop up would increase my chances i'd use it , if i thought using the carp anglers " ronnie " rig would nail them every time id be on it, im very open minded to the advances made in carp fishing to see if they can be utilised in barbel fishing and try and reap the rewards .

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

I think I’ve touched on this in this thread but I’ve certainly talked about it on BFW before. The fish were targeting on the Avon have a feeding method that I’ve witnessed on numerous occasions, they often don’t follow the feeding pattern of returning to baited area for longer and longer and becoming more confident, I’m sure they do but I’ve regularly witnessed this not being the case. Instead upto half a dozen fish move into the baited area and carefully pick the bottom over the period of about 10 minutes, they then leave and do not return. If you failed to get a hook up at this stage, your not going to. Personally I think because as you state, they’re pressured fish they’ve learnt to rush in on the prebait and then bugger off before you get the rig in. So I, like you, want to load the dice as best as possible so when my ten minutes of possibility arrives a picked up bait is a hooked fish.
Im currently reading Quest for Barbel, some of which even mentions stretches I fish, I cannot help but feel though that the methods employed by them then, some 20 years or more back wouldn’t actually help catch more Barbel.

 

[David Maddison]

Can someone explain ,[ and trust me I am not being a smart arse here] , but what is the advantage of using a combi rig ?

Hi Mike. I've never 'proved' this, but when fishing small pellets (Single 8mm or 6mm) on the Ouse in summer when its low with little flow I've found the barbel can be a little tricky to catch as you know. With this rig the hair rig and small pellet is attached to a soft 'supple' 3 inch piece of braid so imo the hookbait would move more naturally if the barbel was above the bait, and sucking up other small pellets around the hookbait.
I like the stiff properties of fluorocarbon and if I needed a long link I'd be confident this rig would be less likely to tangle after I'd cast out!

 

[Jon Frisby]

Pro's
Stiffer link
Softer hooklink of braid
Ease of changing hook
Better turning and hooking qualities
Ease Of swapping baits rigs etc.

Cons
??
Once you have mastered the knot, well, thats it.

Imo

 

[Terry Simner]

but i find the statement that a simple mono rig as the be all and end all of rigs ,

I don't think anyone is really saying that Chris. Posters that don't use a combi rig have obviously never found a need for it, but maybe their results might improve if they did. Conversely there may be anglers who always use a combi rig when they actually have no need to. I think the OP was an excellent question (thanks) and has raised additional questions, as all really good OPs do. It's 'horses for courses' and all good anglers keep an open mind, IMO

so i get a bit defensive when some posters suggest these over engineered rigs are unnecessary and not needed when in my humble opinion they are in some circumstances

I think the 'over engineering' thing is a different question. The 'combi-bit' is just one part of some rigs, and I fully accept that that 'bit' may be beneficial in some situations. But beneficial in all situations? Maybe, just maybe. You'd need to have one of each rig cast to a very small area, at the same time with the same bait, and repeat that exercise many times ... to run a good experiment to find anything close to a definitive answer.

The only point I'd stand firm on is ... I personally feel the need to be able to justify to myself every extra bit of paraphernalia I add to my line. I'd be thinking to myself ... "Why am I adding that? What problem is it solving? Can that problem be solved by a better and/or simpler means?"
But before any of that, there will always be the question in my mind "Is it fish-safe". If it ain't, if it weakens my gear/rig, I won't use it.

N.b.. I used to fish the Teme up to 5 to 6 days a week and never used a combi there. But, from Hatter's feedback, I believe that Sue Anderson (Mark's [Admin] wife) always used one. Going by the success she achieved then she'd out-fish me most days. Was that down her rig of choice, or just better watercraft? Dunno.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

One could argue my own rig is semi combi minus a counter weight and additional knots.
I use a coated braid. Have done for years. I love it because it sinks like a brick and lays flat. But more importantly it takes some abuse.
I strip a couple inches round the hook for the softer properties. Gives the bait a flutter. Does it need it?...........no. There’s no difference in my hook up rates from using this material over a buried bait in mono. just my land up rates
I don’t use different materials or have any unnecessary links or knotts or weights.
ive come from using mono links and only changed to resolve one problem.
That change was made when I changed location and went from fishing medium sized northern spate rivers to very small southern slower more snaggy rivers.

there is from my experience no hook up differences at all.
every type of hook link will lay flat if you cast it correctly and use a suitable length for the conditions.
what I did resolve by going coated was I can extract a fish that’s giving me a hard time under a tree root. I also stepped up my main line too for the same reason.

im also fishing some rivers where barbel are regularly multi caught. The water is in parts gin clear and you can see everything. There is a relatively low stock of big fish.
trust me when I say I know what it’s like to work hard for a barbel. I don’t catch many compared to a lot of people. I stand by my belief that the rig is not the edge to getting a take. Getting something infront of her when she’s feeding and hiding your presence on these types of waters. That’s the edge!

 

[Chris Belcher]

I agree with the fish feeding pattern described by Stephen on the Avon . . .its certainly been the case in my recent experience on the WA and more akin to single hookbait carp fishing than trying to create a feeding response / multiple hit situation. Maybe this type of venue does require any % advantage you can glean in this respect - whether it be rigs or simply how much disturbance you make? My formative barbel experience on the Colne & Frays was completely different - they were much more prolific at the time and although smaller fish, once held up in a swim could be caught with a multitude of different methods from trotting, to freelining, to feeder, to bomb fishing . . .any method would work and all in the same session . . .!

I've got to say I'm with Chris on the some of the undertones in this post - I don't find them overtly negative but as previously stated could perceive them as dismissive. Not that this is a problem - I know myself (for carp fishing specifically) that I've been at it so long and tried and tested most rigs and approaches that experience dictates I generally use 1 of 2 rigs EVERYWHERE and fish in a similar, methodical and OCD type way . . .simply because this has bought me the most success and if it isn't broke why fix it. Doesn't mean I'm fishing it the best way though . . !

Change can be difficult for some - it took me an age to even consider using a zig rig let alone use one (or three!) in anger . . ! There are guys that are happy to fish an entire 72hrs on bottom baits when the fish are in the upper layers just because they don't believe in the method . . . .just sayin!