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Combi rig components

Chris Belcher said:
Diamond eye / hook eye threader . . ? Is that the Queen or Will Shakespeare . . .? Lol . . .don't think that will help with the loop though . . .

Not trying to upset the applecart on this thread - its only a rig idea ffs . . . .!!!!!!
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??? No, as I said, I think it's a great thread ...and I'm sure most, if not all, will agree with that sentiment. There may be some wry smiles, and thoughts of "Why?", but contributions/discussions like these is what BFW is all about, IMO.
 
Chris Belcher said:
Hi Richard - I think we are in general agreement here . . .I'm not saying this rig is the be all and end all it was just a reply to the OP in a combi rig variant that I have used for an age, initially for carp in a shortened form and now in a 'stretched' elongated version for Barbel. I totally agree, barbel are not carp - although both are hoover machines they don't feed in exactly the same way and once they're on it the rig itself (whatever it is) has done its job - a sharp hook, smelly bait and where you chuck it is probably the biggest edge!

Your coated braid combi rig (I assume you use an SSG / Putty as a pivot point at the end of the stripped section?)
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No there is no additional putty or weight or pivot point on my rig. Just stripped coated braid. It doesn’t need anything else.
Chris Belcher said:
is EXACTLY the same as my rig in terms of mechanics, albeit there are no knots or intermediate parts between the coated and uncoated section . . .my rig just has the speed advantage of being able to change the braided section only (new hook / size / hair / whatever) in seconds and without having to replace (or store) a complete 4-5ft length. . . .that's it!

I'm sure you have plenty of 4-5ft lengths in a rig bin to be able to also change quickly, however I'd guess that's an expensive way of doing it compared to my variant. Q - Once you've had a fish / your hook is blunted, do you bin the entire length of coated braid. . .?
We could get onto hook sharpening (another OCD carpy trait of mine) but that's a whole other conversation . . .!!!
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Depends on the severity
If the hook point is just dulled off I’ll replace the rig to get back out fishing and re sharpen the effected hook in my own time.
 
Terry Simner said:
??? No, as I said, I think it's a great thread ...and I'm sure most, if not all, will agree with that sentiment. There may be some wry smiles, and thoughts of "Why?", but contributions/discussions like these is what BFW is all about, IMO.
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. . .Have enjoyed the contributions - I'm having wry smiles of my own . . .lol. I've yet to hear enough of a convincing reason for 'Why not' . . ?
 
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Richard Isaacs said:
No there is no additional putty or weight or pivot point on my rig. Just stripped coated braid. It doesn’t need anything else.

Depends on the severity
If the hook point is just dulled off I’ll replace the rig to get back out fishing and re sharpen the effected hook in my own time.
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Hey Richard - what's your thought on zero weight at the hookbait end? I'm not sure it 'pulls' the hook home (akin to a weighted / counterbalanced carp rig) but surely it helps with the 'pin everything down' theory you mentioned . . .? And if barbel are not rig specifically shy then maybe its an edge . . ? What's your reason for not using a putty pivot point . . .?

I've yet to use backleads for barbel (but sometimes use up 3x in some carp situations) but can see this being useful in the summer / when the river flow is a bit more settled and the water is clearer . . .same principle . . ? Or is the use of a backlead in barbel fishing just to facilitate the use of a shorter hooklength . . ?
 
I have just read over this entire thread ( wrye smile) .

I just cannot help thinking that the whole christmas tree of a rigs as outlined is massivley over thought , over engineered and not required. Richard has put the reasons for >>>> not <<<<< needing them very succinctly, I will not go over them again , the only thing about Richards own rigs is that he uses braid.... even that is a step too far for me.

They do however give many people hours of fun re inventing the wheel, albeit with disc brakes ..... plus, manufacturers such as Korda, etc would not have half so many goodies to sell if the whole of the angling world was like me . I would like to know how much tackle companies make from selling gadgets to build rigs , it must be profitable otherwise they would not bother .

I have caught , well, quite a few Barbel on the very simplest of rigs, in all river conditions from slow clear, to the fast and swollen, deep and shallow ,snag pits and gravel bottoms.... the only knots I ever use are tucked blood knots and figure of 8 loops, so far in a lot of years they have never let me down.

IMO watercraft will out do fancy rigs 10 times out of 10 ...

And long may that last, well,for me anyway , the saying old dogs and new tricks is a very fitting way to finish .

🎣🎣🎣

David
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Can someone explain ,[ and trust me I am not being a smart arse here] , but what is the advantage of using a combi rig ?
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From my perspective I like the combination of a long (2-5') mono boom for abrasion resistance, with 3-4" inch of supple braid at the business end. I like fishing in low clear conditions during the day using particles and have found that longer hooklengths work better for me (I don't think it matters as much at night or in coloured water). I like the suppleness of braid but I wouldn't dream of use anything longer than 5-6" for fear of abrasion. So mono works for me as a boom - it's relatively inconspicuous and it's cheap. I 'think' the small swivel helps pin things down as well.

I don't have the head space for chopping and changing rigs and hooklengths etc, I have found a rig with I know works for the way I fish and I have 100% confidence in it.
 
Hi, just to add my two pennyworth as i started the thread, my original question was asking for opinions on what materials/ combinations users of combi rigs recommended as there are quite a few different ones not whether the combi was viable or worthwhile ! The thread drifted into a pro v negative one on whether or not barbel fishing justified using such a rig . All i can say is if your happy using "simple " rigs happy days , if you like to experiment with rigs/baits etc again happy days , what gets me is the negativity towards those of us who like to tinker around and see if adaptations from the carp world benefit our branch of the sport , i love messing around with milk protein baits but i dont decry those who stick with plain old meat , sometimes the comments on here when someone puts up something a bit different to the norm im sure puts some people off from posting on here . We see it if someone mentions bite alarms etc , i appreciate those who have responded to my post positively and given me food for thought .
 
Joe Winstanley said:
It always amuses me when people imply that other anglers who employ methods that they themselves deem too complicated/fancy/unneccessary (add adjective of choice) must be lacking in watercraft. Even with something as trivial as a hooklength...

Must be bloody hard to fish stealthily on the back of such a high horse...😂
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I never implied anything of the sort Joe,and never said that anybody is lacking in watercraft , I just said, as you will no doubt have read.

IMO watercraft will out do facy rigs ten times out of ten....

it is just my thoughts on the subject... I have no doubt that some very fine and far more skilled anglers than I use christmas tree rigs ..... lets not forget though, it is eminently dooable to go out and catch a specimen with the most basic of equipment and end rigs.
Watercraft is something you cannot buy,or make from bits and bobs.... again I will quote from Tony MIles and Trefor West..
..Quest For Barbel.... two anglers who I think have no need to prove their credentials.

0784F1F5-EC4A-454F-A3EB-712B815D9A06.jpeg


I would say that elswhere in the book there is a quick mention of using braid for hooklengths occasionally ..

Anyway... those are my thoughts on the subject, now I am off to ride my Shetland down to the Tackle shop and hitch it to the rail alongside those Clydesdales and Percherons belonging to ..............

As ever ....and happy that you are amused Joe..... 😋

David.
 
Chris Thomson said:
Hi, just to add my two pennyworth as i started the thread, my original question was asking for opinions on what materials/ combinations users of combi rigs recommended as there are quite a few different ones not whether the combi was viable or worthwhile ! The thread drifted into a pro v negative one on whether or not barbel fishing justified using such a rig . All i can say is if your happy using "simple " rigs happy days , if you like to experiment with rigs/baits etc again happy days , what gets me is the negativity towards those of us who like to tinker around and see if adaptations from the carp world benefit our branch of the sport , i love messing around with milk protein baits but i dont decry those who stick with plain old meat , sometimes the comments on here when someone puts up something a bit different to the norm im sure puts some people off from posting on here . We see it if someone mentions bite alarms etc , i appreciate those who have responded to my post positively and given me food for thought .
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Well said Chris . . .bang on the money. Its a known fact that people called Chris are generally the most level headed / broad minded . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (!)

To be fair I'm new to the forum but not new to angling by any stretch . . .over the years I've seen the cross pollination of a multitude of ideas - from match anglers using carp techniques and visa versa to carp anglers using fly fishing and sea fishing techniques . . .that is the joy of angling to me, whether you love barbel, siamese carp or gudgeon . . .its all part of the same deal IMHO! At what point did the hair rig become 'defacto' ok for barbel . . .let alone using a tripod . . .heresy!

I'm finding the naysayers (that may be a little harsh) actually very well behaved and wouldn't continue with posts if I thought the doubters were actually not bothering to read them . . .if it gets people thinking / talking then I'll take that as a positive! The level of response is very 'above board' compared with some other more well known forums believe me . . .

As previous - I find the 'keep it simple cos we are river specialists and know better' (but without any clear explanation) adage fairly amusing - and whilst it actually makes total sense (KISS) there feels like a slight undertone of superiority. I assume you guys also all wear tweed and look like Des Taylor . . .? (!!!!) However, to infer using a technically different rig other than one found in the annals of mr crabtree means you automatically have a lesser level of watercraft is absolute tosh . . . . . . . . .

As someone said earlier - Each to their own . . .! (and I promise I won't post any more combi rig porn in future)
 
David Craine said:
I never implied anything of the sort Joe,and never said that anybody is lacking in watercraft , I just said, as you will no doubt have read.

IMO watercraft will out do facy rigs ten times out of ten....

it is just my thoughts on the subject... I have no doubt that some very fine and far more skilled anglers than I use christmas tree rigs ..... lets not forget though, it is eminently dooable to go out and catch a specimen with the most basic of equipment and end rigs.
Watercraft is something you cannot buy,or make from bits and bobs.... again I will quote from Tony MIles and Trefor West..
..Quest For Barbel.... two anglers who I think have no need to prove their credentials.

View attachment 14529

I would say that elswhere in the book there is a quick mention of using braid for hooklengths occasionally ..

Anyway... those are my thoughts on the subject, now I am off to ride my Shetland down to the Tackle shop and hitch it to the rail alongside those Clydesdales and Percherons belonging to ..............

As ever ....and happy that you are amused Joe..... 😋

David.
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That is basically the same rig I use 95% of the time, save for the last 3-4 inches of braid and a hair.

Do you make your own steamed ash riding crops? 😜
 
I've read through this thread again and I can't find that much 'negativity' (or naysaying really). I read "I do this", and "I do that", maybe "I don't do that", and "I keep it simple...". Where my personal view is coming from is .. my preferred method of catching fish is freelining, be it 'static' freelining, or rolling/trundling (and not just meat). So my ideal rig would be a hook on the end of my mainline. From this, every bit of hardware I add to this has to be fully justified. That is : what is the 'problem' I'm trying to solve (basically, why am I adding this gizmo to my line)? Can I solve this 'problem' without adding additional hardware to my line? (e.g. if you're rubbish at casting then yes, you probably do need anti-tangle sleeves etc)
Re. Watercraft. Those that don't use it are mostly relying on their 'chuck and chance it' skills. I believe watercraft is important, especially on small/medium sized river.
 
Chris Belcher said:
Hey Richard - what's your thought on zero weight at the hookbait end? I'm not sure it 'pulls' the hook home (akin to a weighted / counterbalanced carp rig) but surely it helps with the 'pin everything down' theory you mentioned . . .? And if barbel are not rig specifically shy then maybe its an edge . . ? What's your reason for not using a putty pivot point . . .?

I've yet to use backleads for barbel (but sometimes use up 3x in some carp situations) but can see this being useful in the summer / when the river flow is a bit more settled and the water is clearer . . .same principle . . ? Or is the use of a backlead in barbel fishing just to facilitate the use of a shorter hooklength . . ?
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I don’t have any weight attached to my rig at all. Hook end, pivot or anywhere else.
I don’t use it because I don’t need it to catch barbel.
that’s the only reason I’ve got for not using it. My rig consists of 1 piece of material. It’s got a hook on one end and a loop in the other. Barbel don’t feed like carp. You don’t need to worry about the rigs potential of pricking the fish. She will manage to do that all on her own with pretty much any set up where the hook point is exposed and more often than not she also manages to hook her self on buried baits too.
yes the barbel world does share a lot of tackle from the carp world but don’t confuse the two species thinking they behave the same when taking a bait.
 
Chris Belcher said:
Well said Chris . . .bang on the money. Its a known fact that people called Chris are generally the most level headed / broad minded . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (!)

To be fair I'm new to the forum but not new to angling by any stretch . . .over the years I've seen the cross pollination of a multitude of ideas - from match anglers using carp techniques and visa versa to carp anglers using fly fishing and sea fishing techniques . . .that is the joy of angling to me, whether you love barbel, siamese carp or gudgeon . . .its all part of the same deal IMHO! At what point did the hair rig become 'defacto' ok for barbel . . .let alone using a tripod . . .heresy!

I'm finding the naysayers (that may be a little harsh) actually very well behaved and wouldn't continue with posts if I thought the doubters were actually not bothering to read them . . .if it gets people thinking / talking then I'll take that as a positive! The level of response is very 'above board' compared with some other more well known forums believe me . . .
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It’s all good debate I’m glad you agree. Every one is going have different opinions on rigs they prefer. Take myself and joe or Terry for example. We have completely different approaches on a lot of things but I can tell you I respect their knowledge in angling because they catch fish and neither one of them spends their days launching leads into prolific weirpools claiming a bad day cos they only got 12 barbel
Chris Belcher said:
As previous - I find the 'keep it simple cos we are river specialists and know better' (but without any clear explanation)
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I’d say the explanation may have gotten missed but it was clear if not quite short. I keep it simple because it works. If I catch some barbel on a rig that doesn’t have a swivel or putty on it why would I add those things at my expense. If I’m loosing or even not hooking fish that pick up my bait then yes I need to make some changes.
Chris Belcher said:
adage fairly amusing - and whilst it actually makes total sense (KISS) there feels like a slight undertone of superiority. I assume you guys also all wear tweed and look like Des Taylor . . .? (!!!!) However, to infer using a technically different rig other than one found in the annals of mr crabtree means you automatically have a lesser level of watercraft is absolute tosh . . . . . . . . .
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Nobody said that. Throwaway Comments like that take good threads off course. Water craft is the key to catching barbel over baits, rods, rigs, anything your likely to bring with you basically. Even pulling power has limits but sitting in the right place at the right time doesn’t. No one is saying other people don’t have the ability to understand it.
Chris Belcher said:
As someone said earlier - Each to their own . . .! (and I promise I won't post any more combi rig porn in future)
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Post away Chris. It’s not doing any harm and there might be people reading it that want to try your rigs. There’s no point in me drawing a picture of mine. It’s quite embarrassing really as it’s pretty much a wiggly line with a hair rigged hook. 🤣
 
Richard Isaacs said:
I don’t have any weight attached to my rig at all. Hook end, pivot or anywhere else.
I don’t use it because I don’t need it to catch barbel.
that’s the only reason I’ve got for not using it. My rig consists of 1 piece of material. It’s got a hook on one end and a loop in the other. Barbel don’t feed like carp. You don’t need to worry about the rigs potential of pricking the fish. She will manage to do that all on her own with pretty much any set up where the hook point is exposed and more often than not she also manages to hook her self on buried baits too.
yes the barbel world does share a lot of tackle from the carp world but don’t confuse the two species thinking they behave the same when taking a bait.
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Hey Richard- great replies!

For the record though I'm perfectly aware of how a barbel feeds / takes a bait compared to a carp. Agree with you that when in feeding mood they aren't picky but then weirdly or not carp aren't either . . .part of my own carping mantra is to create a 'confident' or even 'aggressive' feeding response - on the occasions that you do then any rig with a sharp hook will catch them . . .

The difference (IMHO) is that barbel are arguably a more naturally 'wild' species than a lot of the carp you find in pressured venues. Rig development in carping is usually to resolve a specific presentation problem / feeding trait, and when they become too wary to become aggressive in their feeding rigs can totally make the 1% difference in catching or blanking. Case in point - the bigger fish on my current lake simply don't bolt - once pricked they sit there and try to shift the hook by pivoting against the lead . . .you might get a single bleep as indication - I watch the tip, then strike to set the hook (much like river fishing) and its only then that they bolt . . ! A stiff rig causes them problems because they feed like this . . .a supple braided rig would simply get spat out every time . . . .

The combi rig I have faith in provides a function for me (primarily) in terms of convenience (I can't sit still at the best of times and am always looking to tweak and change much like a match angler, especially on barbel / day sessions for ANY species and especially when I'm not catching) This rig provides that function with the minimum of faff . . . as well as presenting a bait and hooking fish effectively.

Confidence (I think Terry mentioned this previously) must be the determining factor in all things fishing - no matter what rig you use or whether you indeed, do look like Des Taylor etc (sorry Des, no offence). . . . . . . .(!!)
 
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touche touche . . mange tout Rodney . .!

PS. Could tie that in nano seconds with loops . .
PPS. Looks remarkably like the carp rigs used on Rainbow . . .
PPPS. I've just consulted Mr Crabtree - even he doesn't mention 'gangions' . . .wtf?
PPPPS. Ignore that - I've just consulted Isaak Walton - he does . . .its a foot condition
PPPPPS. Scratch that - Des Taylor just rang me . . .its fine to use for barbel . . .phew
 
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Joe Winstanley said:
That is basically the same rig I use 95% of the time, save for the last 3-4 inches of braid and a hair.

Do you make your own steamed ash riding crops? 😜
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Not had occasion to need one for my little pony Joe, it is well behaved ,however, I could (with a deal of financial encouragement ) be persuaded to make a technically advanced stripped back critically balanced “ combi crop “ for those who ride the Clydesdales and Percherons, obviously it would take a good half a tree, and months of testing by well thought of media savvy Carpers AND Barbel anglers , then , with luck, I could market it via a well known tack ( le) brand endorsed by the testers, and make a wad of money .

Oh , hang on , that sounds familiar doesnt it 🤣🤣🤣🤣.



David
 
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