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Combi rig components

David Craine said:
Not had occasion to need one for my little pony Joe, it is well behaved ,however, I could (with a deal of financial encouragement ) be persuaded to make a technically advanced stripped back critically balanced “ combi crop “ for those who ride the Clydesdales and Percherons, obviously it would take a good half a tree, and months of testing by well thought of media savvy Carpers AND Barbel anglers , then , with luck, I could market it via a well known tack ( le) brand endorsed by the testers, and make a wad of money .

Oh , hang on , that sounds familiar doesnt it 🤣🤣🤣🤣.



David
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Think that combi-crop idea has already been patented by Passier . . .?
 
Terry Simner said:
Joe, seeing as you're one of the good guys, I'll let you in on my secret barbel attractor. The method is .... rig above, but with mackerel feathers as 'bait' :eek:
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Terry Simner said:
Joe, seeing as you're one of the good guys, I'll let you in on my secret barbel attractor. The method is .... rig above, but with mackerel feathers as 'bait' :eek:
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Help required with gangions please . . .are they necessary or overkill?
 
Chris Belcher said:
Help required with gangions please . . .are they necessary or overkill?
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Only you know Chris ... if it feels right, then it's right for you. You'll feel the force, it's all part of waterwitchcraft, which can only be learnt from having endured as many blanks as me (just ensure that if you're caggie then invest in left-handed gangions).
 
Very interesting . I have read through the whole thread and come to the conclusion that these rigs have too many knots and bits and bobs [ swivels etc] , more knots to me equals more chance of failure as the knot inevitably is a weak link . I will stick to mono, a hook, and a ledger with a ledger stop . I really don't get the braid thing, it seems to be unpredictable in terms of breaking strain , durability and very knot sensitive as it were .
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Very interesting . I have read through the whole thread and come to the conclusion that these rigs have too many knots and bits and bobs [ swivels etc] , more knots to me equals more chance of failure as the knot inevitably is a weak link . I will stick to mono, a hook, and a ledger with a ledger stop . I really don't get the braid thing, it seems to be unpredictable in terms of breaking strain , durability and very knot sensitive as it were .
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Whilst I agree with your thoughts on weaknesses created by 'over-engineering' rigs (my first thought is always ... do I really need it?), I don't fully agree on your thoughts/doubts re. braid, especially re. knot sensitivity. Whilst mono and fluoro crimp, braid does not. For example, braid could be passed though the eye of a swivel 2 or 3 times and then just granny-knotted without reduction in strength of the rig (I'm not advocating granny knots though!). Conversely, passing mono or fluoro through anything more than once immediately creates a weakness, as there's a very high likelihood of crimping. Due to this, the 'capstan effect' of 'more than once through/around' cannot be taken advantage of if you're using mono/fluoro lines. Re. breaking strain ... yes there are cheapo braids that are weaker than stated, but with most high quality braid this is not true (some braids being stronger than stated). Then there's snap/shock resistance ... how do we measure that accurately? Re. abrasion resistance ... many factors go into what they term "abrasion resistance", and how this is tested can greatly effect the comparative findings/results. A huge factor is the diameter/thickness of a line. So yes, as braids are generally thinner than monos/fluros, they will (generally) have lower abrasion resistance. And by the same token, pre-stretched monos/fluoros (what they laughingly call "Double Strength") will have much lower abrasion resistance than lines that aren't pre-stretched. The worst abrasion resistance I've ever come across is in the lines many anglers having been looking for for many years, that is, soft/limp fluorocarbons. In most cases at least, for every extra strength a certain line gives us, there's an added (and obviously unadvertised) weakness, so it's a balance (you don't get owt for nowt). Otherwise we'd all be using the same line.
Anglers are still using Maxima and Perlon, and swear by the lines they've used since the 60's (I think one or two on here may still be using cut-gut 😂) . And that's fine in my book. We all should use only what we feel comfortable with, and only change if we have (or think we have) got a problem, or think our rig(s) might be improved. But also make sure we keep an open mind.
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Very interesting . I have read through the whole thread and come to the conclusion that these rigs have too many knots and bits and bobs [ swivels etc] , more knots to me equals more chance of failure as the knot inevitably is a weak link . I will stick to mono, a hook, and a ledger with a ledger stop . I really don't get the braid thing, it seems to be unpredictable in terms of breaking strain , durability and very knot sensitive as it were .
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I think a knot free adage is a dependable one by logic alone (not sure about the use of an assumed old skool ledger stop, they crimp line?) - however with the quality of todays terminal tackle and rod blanks I don't believe its as relevant - barbel 'only' run to 20lb (and that's if you're a lucky one) which means they are not shark or nile perch sized - a 'set' of quality knots on a christmas tree rig (that perform an assumed specific function) can handle a LOT more stress than this so maybe that's why daft types like me feel confident in creating and using them . . .?
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Very interesting . I have read through the whole thread and come to the conclusion that these rigs have too many knots and bits and bobs [ swivels etc] , more knots to me equals more chance of failure as the knot inevitably is a weak link . I will stick to mono, a hook, and a ledger with a ledger stop . I really don't get the braid thing, it seems to be unpredictable in terms of breaking strain , durability and very knot sensitive as it were .
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Opened a can of wurrums there Mike,

But I tend to agree with you .

👍



David
 
Chris Belcher said:
barbel 'only' run to 20lb (and that's if you're a lucky one) which means they are not shark or nile perch sized - a 'set' of quality knots on a christmas tree rig (that perform an assumed specific function) can handle a LOT more stress than this so maybe that's why daft types like me feel confident in creating and using them .
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A proper one in a low clear river when she burys her head has got the potential to destroy 15lb mono like play dough. Not much can test your tackle and knotts like a mid double that’s just caught sight of your net
 
Richard Isaacs said:
A proper one in a low clear river when she burys her head has got the potential to destroy 15lb mono like play dough. Not much can test your tackle and knotts like a mid double that’s just caught sight of your net
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Agree they fight like trains (even single figure fish) but a break via abrasion would make no difference fishing straight through or xmas tree stylee. A 30lb lean common steaming for the snags will do the same if not worse!

Do any of you guys use leadcore (I have seen articles on barbel anglers using 4ft lengths of it behind the hooklink) on this basis or is this going from the sublime to the ridiculous?
 
Chris Belcher said:
Agree they fight like trains (even single figure fish) but a break via abrasion would make no difference fishing straight through or xmas tree stylee. A 30lb lean common steaming for the snags will do the same if not worse!

Do any of you guys use leadcore (I have seen articles on barbel anglers using 4ft lengths of it behind the hooklink) on this basis or is this going from the sublime to the ridiculous?
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Yeah an abrasion break is a totally different thing. Any thing half decent that gets the chance to pull your tackle across a rough object can bust you off.
im saying even though they “only” get to 20lb, at 12lb in favourable conditions they are natural born tackle smashers. They don’t need abrasion on their side, they just need a Johnny 5 thumbs thumbling around with his drag knob to not react quickly enough and that’s it...... grown man in tears
 
Chris Belcher said:
Agree they fight like trains (even single figure fish) but a break via abrasion would make no difference fishing straight through or xmas tree stylee. A 30lb lean common steaming for the snags will do the same if not worse!

Do any of you guys use leadcore (I have seen articles on barbel anglers using 4ft lengths of it behind the hooklink) on this basis or is this going from the sublime to the ridiculous?
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I have done but if you'll get some stick on here if you say you use it !!😉
 
Terry Simner said:
Whilst I agree with your thoughts on weaknesses created by 'over-engineering' rigs (my first thought is always ... do I really need it?), I don't fully agree on your thoughts/doubts re. braid, especially re. knot sensitivity. Whilst mono and fluoro crimp, braid does not. For example, braid could be passed though the eye of a swivel 2 or 3 times and then just granny-knotted without reduction in strength of the rig (I'm not advocating granny knots though!). Conversely, passing mono or fluoro through anything more than once immediately creates a weakness, as there's a very high likelihood of crimping. Due to this, the 'capstan effect' of 'more than once through/around' cannot be taken advantage of if you're using mono/fluoro lines. Re. breaking strain ... yes there are cheapo braids that are weaker than stated, but with most high quality braid this is not true (some braids being stronger than stated). Then there's snap/shock resistance ... how do we measure that accurately? Re. abrasion resistance ... many factors go into what they term "abrasion resistance", and how this is tested can greatly effect the comparative findings/results. A huge factor is the diameter/thickness of a line. So yes, as braids are generally thinner than monos/fluros, they will (generally) have lower abrasion resistance. And by the same token, pre-stretched monos/fluoros (what they laughingly call "Double Strength") will have much lower abrasion resistance than lines that aren't pre-stretched. The worst abrasion resistance I've ever come across is in the lines many anglers having been looking for for many years, that is, soft/limp fluorocarbons. In most cases at least, for every extra strength a certain line gives us, there's an added (and obviously unadvertised) weakness, so it's a balance (you don't get owt for nowt). Otherwise we'd all be using the same line.
Anglers are still using Maxima and Perlon, and swear by the lines they've used since the 60's (I think one or two on here may still be using cut-gut 😂) . And that's fine in my book. We all should use only what we feel comfortable with, and only change if we have (or think we have) got a problem, or think our rig(s) might be improved. But also make sure we keep an open mind.
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I will have to watch out for the capstan effect Terry . I fundamentally don't trust braid , it's largely the unpredictable breaking strain that puts me off . Your right , stick with what you are comfortable with , it's just fishing at the end of the day . Right I had best go now and re dress my silk line
 
Difficult for me to get past braid mainline and nylon hook links. ALWAYS using a Palomar knot to attach the swivel to the braid which must be a sensible diameter, say .30 mm which is usually about 30lb B.S. and is relatively abrasion resistant, but not bulletproof. It's about the same diameter as 8lb normal nylon. Newest braids have increased B.S. to nearly 60lb for the same diameter. 10lb braid will be about as thick as 3lb nylon and just as abrasion resistant.
Grinner knot gives around 50% B.S. Palomar around 70%.
I fish one of the most heavily populated Barbel fisheries in the country and the plain nylon hook links work every time. No hairs, no leadcore, no complicated rigs at all. 8lb Bayer perlon, 12 hook, 6mm pellets with a cage feeder. I've not lost a Barbel to a break ever there.
Don't overcomplicate things.
If they want it they'll find it, prime feeding conditions can sometimes get 10 in an hour.
Not boasting because anyone could do the same, just making the point that complicated rigs are just not necessary for Barbel at all. They're just a hangover from Carp fishing.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
A proper one in a low clear river when she burys her head has got the potential to destroy 15lb mono like play dough. Not much can test your tackle and knotts like a mid double that’s just caught sight of your net
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Mid doubles are rare things round this neck of the woods , I have caught Barbel to 12lb and I have always found the larger ones to be a bit ploddy in the fight , however an 8lb or 9lb Nidd nutter now they can shift . I have dragged whole tree branches out of the river with 12lb big game line, it takes some busting ,I look forward to be tested my a mid double , one can but dream ....
 
Chris Thomson said:
I have done but if you'll get some stick on here if you say you use it !!😉
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. . .lol. Would seem to solve a problem if swims are that snaggy! As you know Chris I'm already a confirmed heretic so may keep some stashed in the tackle pouch just incase . . .to be honest if pinning everything down (in some form) is an edge then why not?
 
Paul Collins said:
Difficult for me to get past braid mainline and nylon hook links. ALWAYS using a Palomar knot to attach the swivel to the braid which must be a sensible diameter, say .30 mm which is usually about 30lb B.S. and is relatively abrasion resistant, but not bulletproof. It's about the same diameter as 8lb normal nylon. Newest braids have increased B.S. to nearly 60lb for the same diameter. 10lb braid will be about as thick as 3lb nylon and just as abrasion resistant.
Grinner knot gives around 50% B.S. Palomar around 70%.
I fish one of the most heavily populated Barbel fisheries in the country and the plain nylon hook links work every time. No hairs, no leadcore, no complicated rigs at all. 8lb Bayer perlon, 12 hook, 6mm pellets with a cage feeder. I've not lost a Barbel to a break ever there.
Don't overcomplicate things.
If they want it they'll find it, prime feeding conditions can sometimes get 10 in an hour.
Not boasting because anyone could do the same, just making the point that complicated rigs are just not necessary for Barbel at all. They're just a hangover from Carp fishing.
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The stretches i fish you'd do well to get 10 fish a season !! Big barbel heavily fished for im sure can be a bit cagey and if i can stack the odds in my favour by tweaking rigs and borrowing ideas from the carp world i will
 
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