Combi rig components

[Terry Simner]

. . .compared to some Carp rigs this is simple.

I reckon to those barbel anglers that think "...each to their own", it's those few words that will be the most significant. I'm sure it is simple compared to some carp rigs, and some pike/shark/tuna etc rigs, but for barbel?? Highly effective in some conditions maybe, but "simple" it ain't (IMO).

 

[Chris Belcher]

Get maybe where you are coming from Terry - us carpers have too much time on the bank to 'invent' complication most of the time - especially with the latest fandango rig!

However the OP asked for combi rig examples and this is arguably not only simple (some struggle with the albright ) but also easier on the bank (in terms of speed) to change when conditions dictate which for short day sessions I find a massive advantage. Its also a rig that in my (lesser) barbel experience is highly effective!

Personally don't use combi rigs a whole lot these days for carp fishing (the only one I do use is called a 'slip D', which incidentally also uses an albright connection to fluro AND a looped braid section) and that's a whole lot more complex in terms of fiddly ness. I'm a big adage for KISS (keep it simple, stupid) in most things fishing and rigs and presentation is generally one of them, however for a combi rig I urge all barbelist naysayers to give it a try . . .they've got a whole close season to perfect it!

If it helps this rig was shown to me at a show by Terry Hearn over 20yrs ago . . .it was his preferred 'go anywhere' bottom bait rig at the time . . .if its good enough for Tel etc . . .

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Take it as one will but and I’m generalizing when I say this.
A lot of people chuck random tosh into barbel rigs that simply isn’t needed.
barbel are very hard feeders capable of dragging their breakfast from between rocks and gravel. Primarily they are shoal feeders along side other barbel, greedy chub and bream as well so they can’t mess about if they don’t want to miss out.
Tackle shy they ain’t!
yes they have rules with tackle but extra links, kickers, beads, swivels, fluro here joined to braid joined to mono etc ain’t giving anyone any advantages with this formidable river bed hoover.
pin a bait hard on the deck and keep the incoming main line either as low as possible or far away as possible and you’ve created the perfect ledgered barbel rig.

The each time their own statement is very true and If the rig is safe then it doesn’t matter what people use but personally I can’t see a complicated rig out fishing any of the simple rigs that have proved themselves for decades.
if she’s there and feeding then she’ll find and eat it

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Can someone explain ,[ and trust me I am not being a smart arse here] , but what is the advantage of using a combi rig ?

 

[Chris Belcher]

Take it as one will but and I’m generalizing when I say this.
A lot of people chuck random tosh into barbel rigs that simply isn’t needed.
barbel are very hard feeders capable of dragging their breakfast from between rocks and gravel. Primarily they are shoul feeders along side other barbel, greedy chub and bream as well so they can’t mess about if they don’t want to miss out.
Tackle shy they ain’t!
yes they have rules with tackle but extra links, kickers, beads, swivels, fluro here joined to braid joined to mono etc ain’t giving anyone any advantages with this formidable river bed hoover.
pin a bait hard on the deck and keep the incoming main line either as low as possible or far away as possible and you’ve created the perfect ledgered barbel rig.

The each time their own statement is very true and If the rig is safe then it doesn’t matter what people use but personally I can’t see a complicated rig out fishing any of the simple rigs that have proved themselves for decades.
if she’s there and feeding then she’ll find and eat it

Agree with a lot of this in principle - and in essence the same applies to most other species. However in some instances rigs are either designed to resolve a specific 'problem' or to provide the angler with an advantage etc whether that be speed of being able to change something or a better bait presentation given the conditions / fish mood etc (this is particularly relevant in match fishing as an example)

I'm sure plenty of barbel get caught with simple mono links tied direct to a large hook impaled in a quarter tin of meat and a simple running lead. Plenty of carp / chub certainly get caught with equally 'simple' rigs . . .does this mean they are necessarily 'better' or more effective just because they have less components? In terms of the combi rig described I've no idea whether it outfishes a more 'simple' variant, and without seeing confirmed underwater evidence I probably never will . . . however I do know the rig described works (tick) hookholds are good (tick) it pins itself to the deck (tick) the braid section presumably 'wafts' naturally and maybe better than a stiff fluro (tick) the hook end presentation can be changed without tying knots on the bank and in seconds (tick), the component parts are minimised and therefore more cost effective in terms of use in the long run (tick) . . . . . .what's not to like lol?

Maybe I'M generalizing, but its interesting and somewhat amusing to me that it feels there's a certain 'distaste' in anything over exuberant in some barbel circles, whilst this is also true in some carp circles it seems to be the total opposite in general and the search for even a minimal percentage edge is seen as an advantage. Have the most successful barbel anglers already ditched their overly complex hair rigs on this basis? . . . .methinks not. Anyway . . . . who actually cares as long as we're having fun . . ?!!

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

Before I knew they were called combi rigs I saw it as a way to prevent tangles. The stiff fluorocarbon helps to stop the soft braid from wrapping round the lead. The weight of the fluoro in theory acts as a “front lead” like the opposite to a back lead.

Supposedly the difference in materials makes it harder for the fish to eject the hook bait... apparently.

Personally I don’t think using a bit of flouro in the hook length (which is all a combi is really) is in any way or shape complex.

Whilst I appreciate that Barbel when feeding confidently and competing aren’t tackle shy, I’ve witnessed a small group move in over the bait picking up virtually everything but the hook bait before buggering off.

 

[Keith Humphreys]

For me in general the rig offers a combination of stiff abrasion resistant mono boom with a flexible and more natural / inconspicuous braided bait presentation (mono or flouro depends on water clarity, substrate (eg rocks, gravel, silt).

There are many ways to tie the mono to braid and I use Albright for heavier mono (15-20lb) or back to back uni knot/grinner for lighter (10-14lb).

As with an earlier post I rarely use short mono booms for Barbel, instead preferring 18-24" mono/flouro, to 3-4" braided end section.

 

[Wayne Pevy]

Take it as one will but and I’m generalizing when I say this.
A lot of people chuck random tosh into barbel rigs that simply isn’t needed.
barbel are very hard feeders capable of dragging their breakfast from between rocks and gravel. Primarily they are shoul feeders along side other barbel, greedy chub and bream as well so they can’t mess about if they don’t want to miss out.
Tackle shy they ain’t!
yes they have rules with tackle but extra links, kickers, beads, swivels, fluro here joined to braid joined to mono etc ain’t giving anyone any advantages with this formidable river bed hoover.
pin a bait hard on the deck and keep the incoming main line either as low as possible or far away as possible and you’ve created the perfect ledgered barbel rig.

The each time their own statement is very true and If the rig is safe then it doesn’t matter what people use but personally I can’t see a complicated rig out fishing any of the simple rigs that have proved themselves for decades.
if she’s there and feeding then she’ll find and eat it

Hallelujah

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Agree with a lot of this in principle - and in essence the same applies to most other species. However in some instances rigs are either designed to resolve a specific 'problem' or to provide the angler with an advantage etc whether that be speed of being able to change something or a better bait presentation given the conditions / fish mood etc (this is particularly relevant in match fishing as an example)

I'm sure plenty of barbel get caught with simple mono links tied direct to a large hook impaled in a quarter tin of meat and a simple running lead. Plenty of carp / chub certainly get caught with equally 'simple' rigs . . .does this mean they are necessarily 'better' or more effective just because they have less components? In terms of the combi rig described I've no idea whether it outfishes a more 'simple' variant, and without seeing confirmed underwater evidence I probably never will . . . however I do know the rig described works (tick) hookholds are good (tick) it pins itself to the deck (tick) the braid section presumably 'wafts' naturally and maybe better than a stiff fluro (tick) the hook end presentation can be changed without tying knots on the bank and in seconds (tick), the component parts are minimised and therefore more cost effective in terms of use in the long run (tick) . . . . . .what's not to like lol?

Maybe I'M generalizing, but its interesting and somewhat amusing to me that it feels there's a certain 'distaste' in anything over exuberant in some barbel circles, whilst this is also true in some carp circles it seems to be the total opposite in general and the search for even a minimal percentage edge is seen as an advantage. Have the most successful barbel anglers already ditched their overly complex hair rigs on this basis? . . . .methinks not. Anyway . . . . who actually cares as long as we're having fun . . ?!!

There’s a lot to go at here Chris but the gist of it is a simple confidence thing. That’s all.

im not saying your rig doesn’t work I’m saying it’s over engineered for what it’s got to do.
It’s a lovely carp rig. Very neat, very fancy but mostly unnecessary if used to catch barbel.
you cannot compare carp and barbel fishing to be anything alike. Or the species themselves to be anything alike.
Carp are often stocked in hole in the floor. They get leads chucked at their faces all day every day so they wise up and tricky complicated rigs with perfectly balanced bait presentation is often the only way to tempt those clued up fish to touch a bait.

now I love barbel more than any other fish that swims and I’ve targeted them for well over 25 years (only 38) but no point sugar coating the fact that they aren’t the most clued up fish that swims. In fact far from it.
For a start their favorite time to feed is either in a flood or under the stars and in either case your fancy rig goes completely unnoticed as other senses take over.

it would be lovely if a change of rig could be the difference between a blank and a right result but the reality is a change of location or general feeding and fishing tactics are far more likely to make that happen.
going back to the confidence thing. That’s important and if such a rig fills an angler with confidence then yes he should stick with it because if your not second guessing what’s out there, your likely to leave it out there.
my rig is a single length of coated braid stripped back a couple inches and a knotless knot. It’s caught a lot of barbel. When I blank The rig is last thing I think of blaming.
It’s more likely that this dumbass went and parked his arse in the wrong spot

 

[Cliff Turner]

I used a combi rig for a season on the Wye, caught lots of fish and couldn’t fault it ..but.. I couldn’t honestly say it out fished my usual fluro hook length approach. As the latter is much simpler and quicker to tie on the bank that’s what I prefer.

 

[Chris Belcher]

There’s a lot to go at here Chris but the gist of it is a simple confidence thing. That’s all.

im not saying your rig doesn’t work I’m saying it’s over engineered for what it’s got to do.
It’s a lovely carp rig. Very neat, very fancy but mostly unnecessary if used to catch barbel.
you cannot compare carp and barbel fishing to be anything alike. Or the species themselves to be anything alike.
Carp are often stocked in hole in the floor. They get leads chucked at their faces all day every day so they wise up and tricky complicated rigs with perfectly balanced bait presentation is often the only way to tempt those clued up fish to touch a bait.

now I love barbel more than any other fish that swims and I’ve targeted them for well over 25 years (only 38) but no point sugar coating the fact that they aren’t the most clued up fish that swims. In fact far from it.
For a start their favorite time to feed is either in a flood or under the stars and in either case your fancy rig goes completely unnoticed as other senses take over.

it would be lovely if a change of rig could be the difference between a blank and a right result but the reality is a change of location or general feeding and fishing tactics are far more likely to make that happen.
going back to the confidence thing. That’s important and if such a rig fills an angler with confidence then yes he should stick with it because if your not second guessing what’s out there, your likely to leave it out there.
my rig is a single length of coated braid stripped back a couple inches and a knotless knot. It’s caught a lot of barbel. When I blank The rig is last thing I think of blaming.
It’s more likely that this dumbass went and parked his arse in the wrong spot

Hi Richard - I think we are in general agreement here . . .I'm not saying this rig is the be all and end all it was just a reply to the OP in a combi rig variant that I have used for an age, initially for carp in a shortened form and now in a 'stretched' elongated version for Barbel. I totally agree, barbel are not carp - although both are hoover machines they don't feed in exactly the same way and once they're on it the rig itself (whatever it is) has done its job - a sharp hook, smelly bait and where you chuck it is probably the biggest edge!

Your coated braid combi rig (I assume you use an SSG / Putty as a pivot point at the end of the stripped section?) is EXACTLY the same as my rig in terms of mechanics, albeit there are no knots or intermediate parts between the coated and uncoated section . . .my rig just has the speed advantage of being able to change the braided section only (new hook / size / hair / whatever) in seconds and without having to replace (or store) a complete 4-5ft length. . . .that's it!

I'm sure you have plenty of 4-5ft lengths in a rig bin to be able to also change quickly, however I'd guess that's an expensive way of doing it compared to my variant. Q - Once you've had a fish / your hook is blunted, do you bin the entire length of coated braid. . .? We could get onto hook sharpening (another OCD carpy trait of mine) but that's a whole other conversation . . .!!!

 

[Chris Belcher]

Just to annoy everyone (as this is now the rig of controversy) I've done a picture . . .(too much time on my hands today) . . ! This evening I'll be using up the spool of braid and tying rig end sections in readiness for June 16th . . .lol

)

 

[Joe Winstanley]

Just to annoy everyone (as this is now the rig of controversy) I've done a picture . . .(too much time on my hands today) . . ! This evening I'll be using up the spool of braid and tying rig end sections in readiness for June 16th . . .lol

View attachment 14525)

In principal that is pretty much the set-up I use about 95% of the time, except I use one strand of either 12 or 15lb braid, and 10-12lb mono instead of Fluoro, and a slightly smaller swivel and no tungsten bead. I’ve been using it for over 10 years now and won’t be changing anytime soon.

 

[Mark Harridence]

For fans of coated braid over fluoro or mono you could do the same, and attach the braid business end with the hook to the coated braid with either a rig ring or swivel. This again would mean you would only need to replace that, if the hook was damaged, rather than the whole hook length.

 

[Terry Simner]

Just to annoy everyone (as this is now the rig of controversy) I've done a picture . . .(too much time on my hands today) . . ! This evening I'll be using up the spool of braid and tying rig end sections in readiness for June 16th . . .lol

View attachment 14525)

I can't see a lot wrong with that (that is, I'm sure it'll catch fish) ... but if I was confronted with that rig I'd be asking myself :

1. Do I really need 2 swivels in my rig?
2. What do I need a tungsten bead for?
3. Do I really need an anti-tangle sleeve when I can just feather-down?
4. What is the advantage in using 2 x 8lb b.s. braid as opposed to using a single length of (say) 12-14lb b.s? If/ when I could justify the use of those 4 bits of gear, only then would I be quite happy to use that rig.​

 

[Chris Belcher]

IMHO the most complex or fiddly thing on this rig is tying the knotless knot . . as the braid is 'doubled' you are doubling the diameter so when you complete the whipping part and thread it back through the eye it can be difficult (dependant on braid diameter and hook size / relative hook eye size) and refuse to go through . . .

As previous the easiest way to do this is to wet the braid with saliva, lay the hook on a flat surface (eg closed laptop) hold down the hook with one finger and thread the braid back through the eye before pulling tight. Don't know why this works but it just does . . . with practice you can make a multitude of differing lengths and presentations . . .just don't go too short on the braid or you wont be able to loop the braid onto the swivel / ring and push the hook & hair through the loop etc . . .

 

[Chris Belcher]

I can't see a lot wrong with that (that is, I'm sure it'll catch fish) ... but if I was confronted with that rig I'd be asking myself :

1. Do I really need 2 swivels in my rig?
2. What do I need a tungsten bead for?
3. Do I really need an anti-tangle sleeve when I can just feather-down?
4. What is the advantage in using 2 x 8lb b.s. braid as opposed to using a single length of (say) 12-14lb b.s? If/ when I could justify the use of those 4 bits of gear, only then would I be quite happy to use that rig.​

Let me answer that lol -

1 - No. As per Marks post you could swop out the small swivel for a simple circular or teardrop ring (as long as its strong enough)

2 - Again optional. This acts as a pivot point (Martin Bowler rig) and an effective 'front' backlead. It could easily be replaced with an SSG / Putty or simply nothing at all as per Joes post. I prefer the tungsten as its neater, the swivel sits inside and the knot is protected, and unlike putty it cannot come off / get chewed by crayfish etc. You could also argue more swivels = more twist alleviation on the retrieve etc.

3 - No, optional. With a stiff boom like fluro you could just tie a longer loop to create the same effect . .again this is an additional anti tangle device and creates a neater connection / protects the knot. I also feather down - not matter what rig or what species I'm fishing for . . .

4 - This is the whole point of the rig . . .! You 'could' just tie the braid direct and without doubling with whatever knot you want, however you can't use a palomar on the braided side, so would need to be a strangulation knot or whatever. Also you are now tying this knot on the bank and guess-timating lengths etc. With the loop method pre-tied end sections can all be EXACTLY the same length with practice and can also be changed / looped on and off in seconds . .and the double / looped connection makes it FAR stronger than a single strand knot . . .as you know braid knots can slip if not tied perfectly . . .

Hope this helps / answers your concerns . . this is about 'convenience' as much as anything else - its not a massive edge compared to Richards coated braid rig or any other for that matter but it resolves another set of 'possible' bankside irritations and keeps you fishing effectively quicker / for longer. . . . . . . .welcome to the future . . .or maybe not . .!!!!!!

 

[Terry Simner]

You come across these Chris??
PS... great thread this

 

[Chris Belcher]

Diamond eye / hook eye threader . . ? Is that the Queen or Will Shakespeare . . .? Lol . . .don't think that will help with the loop though . . .

Not trying to upset the applecart on this thread - its only a rig idea ffs . . . .!!!!!!

 

[Chris Belcher]

Whilst I'm on a roll (or not lol) here's another potential combi idea inspired from the darkside (carping) . . .

This one is based on the infamous 'multi rig' but is also known as the slip D . . .possibly simpler and for all those Albright knot fans out there.
Still utilises a doubled up looped section (but this time in reverse and no need to together with an overhand loop) and is effectively a braid D rig. Benefit of this is you can change the hook itself (only) in an instant without having to tie a new one on . . .you 'could' negate the silcone sleeve (stops the braid slipping prematurely) by using a coated braid for the hook section and then strip the rest before the albright connection or indeed strip just a small part of it . . .thinking about it this might struggle with a really heavy hookbait but would be ok if wrapped in paste etc . . .its fine with boilies and will not pull tight even on a 100yd thump cast . . .

Might try this next season . . .again very simple to tie IMHO . . .the hair rig is dead . . !

Tin hat ready . . . . .hahaha!!!!