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Winter Suits

Jon Elliott said:
Has anyone ever fallen in wearing all of this clobber...
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I think you would get wet Jon...I don't think it's THAT waterproof :p

Seriously though, I guess you mean 'Will it be heavy when soaking wet, and so possibly cause you to drown? I have never tried it, and wouldn't want to, but I don't think it actually makes any odds while you are in the water. It's much like the wader thing, people think you would drown if you fell in with waders on, because the weight of the water would drag you down. Seems to make sense, because once out of the water, waders full of water weigh half a ton. However, the fact is, while you are in the water, that weight becomes negative buoyancy.....it is exactly the same as the water you in/surrounded by...hey presto, equilibrium...it weighs nowt :D

There was a piece about this way back when, by a famous river keeper/angler whose name escapes me (an age thing :D) This fella used to throw himself into the (deep and fast flowing) river, with heavy clothing and waders on, to demonstrate his point. The video showed him floating down the river like a cork, laying on his back watching the world go by, untill he came to an area of bank where he could climb out easily. Obviously, the scrambling out bit is no doubt a struggle...because the weight of the water comes into play again and makes that part hard work :rolleyes:

Cheers, Dave.
 
I'll have a little further dig around for something then. Not too fussed about the waterproofing, just something warm and doesn't feel like you've got one of them sumo suits on.
 
This is the sort of quality stuff you want for serious cold weather fishing. Jacket and sallopettes about £350 after discount. Once you have this kit, you can use it for all sorts of activities, walking, skiing etc or just impressing in the supermarket car park. I can't see anyone being impressed with a fishing suit with a label Super Glacier TXi Fishing! Incidentally, I have a Paramo jacket and bought it on Sir Ranulph's recommendation. Below is the current offer from Paramo.

Hello from Páramo,
LAST CHANCE TO BUY THIS OFFER!

We are very proud that our Aspira Smocks and Salopettes have been selected to go on The Coldest Journey with Sir Ranulph Fiennes, when he attempts to cross Antarctica in winter in 2013.

Now you can invest in the same gear - currently used by the British Antarctic Survey too - and SAVE upto 30%.

Combine any of the Aspira upper garments with any Aspira legwear to face all environments with confidence -
and SAVE upto £155!

Aspira Smock or Jacket + Aspira Legwear for £365.00 – you save upto £155.00 on RRP - Buy Now |Find a retailer


Offer ends on 4th November 2012.

Keep warm and dry this autumn!
 
I have a paramo pajaro jacket , 15 minute walk to the station , 45 minutes on a train and 15 minute walk to work is bout as much as I would expose it to the elements. 245 quids worth of rubbish.
 
David Will said:
I have a paramo pajaro jacket , 15 minute walk to the station , 45 minutes on a train and 15 minute walk to work is bout as much as I would expose it to the elements. 245 quids worth of rubbish.
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Well, I'd best start to pen Sir Ranulph's obituary now. Sound as though he won't make it to his front door let alone crossing Antartica!
 

There was a piece about this way back when, by a famous river keeper/angler whose name escapes me (an age thing ) This fella used to throw himself into the (deep and fast flowing) river, with heavy clothing and waders on, to demonstrate his point. The video showed him floating down the river like a cork, laying on his back watching the world go by, untill he came to an area of bank where he could climb out easily. Obviously, the scrambling out bit is no doubt a struggle...because the weight of the water comes into play again and makes that part hard work


David, could it be you remember that famous sea trout angler Hugh Falkus launching himself into the river wearing waders?

My age thing is that I can't remember what TV programme this was in.
 
I think you are probably right Martin. The REALLY scary bit is that you mentioning his name prompted my memory a little...and I have a horrible feeling we are going to show our age...'cos I think the programme we are trying to remember was dear old Jack Hargreaves country life/angling series 'Out of Town'.

Cheers, Dave :D
 
Well you mentioning out of town didn't ring any bells for me David although like most anglers around my age, I did watch Jack religiously. After a bit of head shaking trying to stimulate the remaining brain cell, I did come up with something.

By the magic of you tube, here's the very programme,

Salmo the Leaper Hugh Falkus Part 2 - YouTube

The famous launch is at something like 10 minutes into the film:D
 
Jim the jacket I have is not the only example of their clothing I have, sadly I have wasted a lot of money and I do fear for Sir Ranulphs safety if he is relying on the gear they produce. That said he may be relying on a big bung for promoting their clothing that will be spent on something that works.
 
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I had a peruse and came across a review of Paramor clothing. There's an interesting sentence in the 'disadvantages' section which Sir Rannulph needs to be made aware of;):

Advanced Moisture Management - ParamoThis is a membrane where the outer layer sheds most of the water. When water penetrates the outer it comes into contact with the “pump liner†or drop liner, which forces any moisture back out of the jacket. The “pump liner†effectively dries faster than it can get wet as the waterproof element is within the lining.


Paramo works like the fur of an animal whereas conventional waterproofs work more like a sheet of plastic. There are three constituent components: two layers of fabric and a waterproofing agent. The fabric is impregnated with Nikwax TX Direct treatment that leaves a water-repellent finish on each individual fibre so that the outer layer, as well as being fully windproof, will deflect at least 90% of water that hits it.


This unique system of water transfer control, insulation and waterproofing is derived from observations of how an animal’s fur works. The inner layer is a very short-haired fleece which is reversed, so that as water enters the fleece and moves down towards the base of the fibres, it comes under increasing pressure; eventually it cannot get any further and is pushed back up the fibres.


In addition, the waterproofing treatment causes the garment to treat water directionally, so that any water that hits it is deflected. It also means that any moisture that is created on the inside will be drawn away.


Advantages of Paramo
Paramo is extremely breathable: no matter how hard the wearer works, or how much they sweat, body moisture will be moved away. Due to the way it functions, and the type of fabric used, fewer layers of clothing are required underneath. Paramo jackets do not appear to have a finite life: as long as they are periodically reproofed (about every 12 months) by washing with either TX Direct or Granger’s Extreme and then tumble-dried, they will keep on working.


For comparison, a Gore-Tex or other membrane jacket will have about an eight-year life and a coated jacket five or six years, before they are worn out. Punctures do not harm the material and rips can be easily repaired.


Disadvantages of Paramo:
The material is comparatively heavy. It is questionable whether it is sufficiently durable to be recommended for serious mountaineering use. It has no hydrostatic head. When it needs reproofing water can be pushed through the fabric, e.g. by the weight of a rucksack; however the water will disappear soon after the pressure is released.
 
I'm glad that David and Will have entered into the spirit of this debate. I can assure you that Sir Rannulph is an honourable man and would never consider any skulduggery. I've known him ever since we were at boarding school and if he says he'll do something he'll do it. If he says he is wearing Paramo he'll wear it. Might have the odd tweak here and there. If there were any expeditions at school, Ranulph (he wasn't knighted then), would invariably lead them. I can remember some of his merry japes which I'll share with BFW members another time. When Sir Ranulph returns he will be giving me some of his Paramo kit that is still serviceable. I'll then be in a better position to comment on the durabilty of the clothing.
 
Martin Gregory said:
Well you mentioning out of town didn't ring any bells for me David although like most anglers around my age, I did watch Jack religiously. After a bit of head shaking trying to stimulate the remaining brain cell, I did come up with something.

By the magic of you tube, here's the very programme,

Salmo the Leaper Hugh Falkus Part 2 - YouTube

The famous launch is at something like 10 minutes into the film:D
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The very one Martin...well found young man :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Will said:
I have a paramo pajaro jacket , 15 minute walk to the station , 45 minutes on a train and 15 minute walk to work is bout as much as I would expose it to the elements. 245 quids worth of rubbish.
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Out of interest, David, what's wrong with the jacket? Does it leak?
 
Andy yes , it is the most breathable jacket I have had but despite regular washing and re proofing with nikwax products it won't stand much more than a light shower. It has been like this since the first 6 months i had it but lack of rain disguised it.Shoulder area worst but I did notice the incursion of rain in a very heavy shower on the lower arm area.it is a nice commuting jacket but I don't think that is what the makers had in mind. I will have had the jacket 3 years this coming Xmas.
A pair of shorts from paramo were designed for a human with no backside and a reversible light fleece just does not do what it is supposed to do ie not wind proof. Staff are not very welcoming in the Covent Garden store . I will not be buying anything else which is a shame because as it is a British company (I think) I would like to support it. My fishing jacket is now a ECWCS jacket from military 1st , very waterproof and breathable as evidenced to me on a few occasions already this late summer and autumn. Shame it's an American product.
 
David Will said:
Andy yes , it is the most breathable jacket I have had but despite regular washing and re proofing with nikwax products it won't stand much more than a light shower. It has been like this since the first 6 months i had it but lack of rain disguised it.Shoulder area worst but I did notice the incursion of rain in a very heavy shower on the lower arm area.it is a nice commuting jacket but I don't think that is what the makers had in mind. I will have had the jacket 3 years this coming Xmas.
A pair of shorts from paramo were designed for a human with no backside and a reversible light fleece just does not do what it is supposed to do ie not wind proof. Staff are not very welcoming in the Covent Garden store . I will not be buying anything else which is a shame because as it is a British company (I think) I would like to support it. My fishing jacket is now a ECWCS jacket from military 1st , very waterproof and breathable as evidenced to me on a few occasions already this late summer and autumn. Shame it's an American product.
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I appreciate that we have had a bit of fun on this issue, but if their garments are that bad they need to know about it irrespective of age. If I were the CEO I would want to know if my products were not performing and especially at that price.
 
I'll add my pennies worth here, been through a lot of garments in the past and in fact have a sundridge suit hanging in the shed that has not been used for a couple of seasons now. I found it was good but way too bulky to allow enough freedom of movement.
Nowadays I use layers, my base layer was expensive at £80 but boy does it make a difference, no more sweating when walking to swims. Over this I wear a Nordic shirt, followed by one or two fleeces depending on how cold it is, then over the top a breathable, waterproof jacket, it is lined but not padded and hence very light.
I wear a pair of fleece trousers over the base layer and top that up with another pair if needed.Over these i wear breathable waterproof trousers.

The whole lot is light and packs away into a Korum rucky.


With this system you can tailor what you wear to suit the conditions, since using it I am never cold.
You do need some decent socks and boots and a neck fleece and hat to compliment the lot and with these I am toasty warm whatever the weather.

Not though for the tackle tarts as the jacket is just a plain dark green and the trousers do not match, but hey I wnat to keep warm not look tarty !!!
 
Jim see below.
"Dear David

Thank you for your enquiry and sorry to hear that you have experienced this problem with your Pajaro.

Because you have already tried to treat the garment with the Nikwax products yourself I would suggest that you send it in to us to have a look at for you.
I have attached a questionnaire – please print this off, complete it with as much detail as possible and return it with the garment to the address shown.
I’d suggest sending the parcel by special delivery so that it is insured and trackable (we will refund your postage costs) and mark the outside of the parcel “FAO Nikwax Customer Services”.
Once we have the garment we will aim to turn it around within 5 working days of receipt.".
 
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