Stephen Crowhurst
Senior Member
Possibly because the barbel market segment is a bit nieche, whereas Carp makes a huge market share of angling.
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Thoughts on Barbel wising up to rigs
- Thread starter Neil Lumby
- Start date
Keith Humphreys
Senior Member & Supporter
Because, as you know Terry, it's not rocket science mate, although you could be forgiven for thinking it is. Location and feed are the key elements, after that if you have a decent bait on a decent rig, in the right place , it will catchGreat post Chris ... thanks. The only 'thing' (question) that I'd add (just in from the pub) is .... there are SO many great barbel anglers out there making so many 'catching' videos and pushing so many must-have products. There are guys catching so many doubles, consistently. But none of them is saying "This rig is best", "THIS is the dog's..." or "That rig is rubbish" or "use this gizmo and you'll catch more barbel". None, which I find weird. How come the likes of Korum etc aren't coming out with books, booklets, diagrams, of 'barbel rigs' in the same way as so many suppliers/anglers/'specialists' do re. carp? Why is it only us on BFW (apparently/mostly) that are doing all the "We're being done" navel gazing?
N.b.. I love playing with rigs but in all honesty I don't think it makes the slightest difference in 'hook-up rates'.
Chris Belcher
Senior Member & Supporter
Thanks Terry - I also don't think rigs 'per se' make a huge difference either - especially with barbel that are arguably more ravenous feeders and easier to hook / connect to in general. Most of my barbel rig tinkering is for my own convenience / speed but was just wondering whether fish 'cuteness' (irrespecitve of species) is just fish that are feeding tentavively and mouthing / dropping baits more than usual - and on a longer hooklink in a moving river this could be more damning? . . .any rig will catch and this def applies to carp however a rig that 're sets' automatically is an edge IMO as it means it can effectively be left in place for longer and with confidence.Great post Chris ... thanks. The only 'thing' (question) that I'd add (just in from the pub
N.b.. I love playing with rigs but in all honesty I don't think it makes the slightest difference in 'hook-up rates'.
I have recently started to use D rig kickers on my barbel rigs / hooks - the fluro whipped D is a very simple and effective carp rig thats caught me a lot of carp (I rarely use anything else as this also 're sets'), the idea being a bait that still has movement but one that doesn't have the limitations / tangles of a long braided hair on missed takes / occurences etc - too soon to know whether it actually catches any more barbel however!
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Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
Not where your concerned damian…
Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
I’m using something similar and initial results are promising although I haven’t fished at all during The hot weather I’ll compare results at the end of the season…I’m not trying to get more bites rigs won’t give you that I’m trying to make sure they can’t eject my rig
All I’m trying to achieve is if a fish picks my bait up it converts into a hooked fish … it has eliminated the little taps and knocks and takes are now from motionless tip to full wrap round (including chub) which is what I set out to do
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Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
If a barbel mouths my bait it's usually hooked.
My hook point is usually near as damn alongside the bait.
Correct Bait size, hook size, hooklength and hair length
( minimum) works for me.
My hook point is usually near as damn alongside the bait.
Correct Bait size, hook size, hooklength and hair length
( minimum) works for me.
Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
But what if you could change usually into definitely……no rig can give you 100% hook ups but what if you could increase the chances can you really be 100% sure your hooking all the barbel that pick up your bait ..we have all had those big plucks and pull rounds that turn into nothing the usual excuse is chub ….. but is it ?
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Yes, the fact I hook so many chub tells me it works well
No 100pc rig.
No 100pc rig.
Paul Bullinger
Senior Member & Supporter
I'm enjoying this post about how we can discuss different rigs and their application and would like to add my sixpeneth.
I used to do a lot of fly fishing years ago and you wouldn't believe the number of flies I have tied/bought to try and fool trout. I have boxes and boxes of the things. I have a whole box of just black flies, large ones, small ones, large hackle, no hackle... all for one aim...to fool the fish!
In retrospect I think I was the one fooled, as the money I have spent over the years on flies and fly tying gear is considerable!
Personally, I believe it comes down to confidence, confidence in the rig you're using and confidence in its presentation.
That confidence is normally brought about by success. Once you've had a few successful sessions using a particular rig, apart from dramatic changes in river conditions, why change?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I used to do a lot of fly fishing years ago and you wouldn't believe the number of flies I have tied/bought to try and fool trout. I have boxes and boxes of the things. I have a whole box of just black flies, large ones, small ones, large hackle, no hackle... all for one aim...to fool the fish!
In retrospect I think I was the one fooled, as the money I have spent over the years on flies and fly tying gear is considerable!
Personally, I believe it comes down to confidence, confidence in the rig you're using and confidence in its presentation.
That confidence is normally brought about by success. Once you've had a few successful sessions using a particular rig, apart from dramatic changes in river conditions, why change?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
D
Deleted member 2708
Guest
Being fairly new to barbel angling I have been following everything I can find to ensure I can stick the hook into them!
What I am now realising is that if they are feeding a simple fluoro trace (of almost any B.S), with the usual simple hair rig tied in gets them without any problem. They hook themselves !
There have been days when I have had many strong bites but failed to hook up. So I often use a 3 oz quiver tip in the summer low flow conditions, then I catch the odd chub and bream and often the gudgeon size barbel that are occasionally around in nuisance numbers.
But the last time I used the quiver tip I was getting lots of slight pulls and eventually struck into the jab - to find I had hooked a good sized carp! Big boil on the surface as this carp raced the 10 metres into weed and rocks - game over!
Not expecting this would happen again I carried on with the quivertip and smallish boilie bait. Same sequence of events with small bites resulting in my finally striking into another good carp. My new hook length had been upped to 15 lb and I kept the fish out of the weeds but he then bolted downriver and into a sunken tree.
So now I wonder just how often these small bites I put down to "chub" might actually have been carp?
As for the barbel I am pretty sure, whatever end rig I decide to use, when they are hungry they WILL hook themselves!
What I am now realising is that if they are feeding a simple fluoro trace (of almost any B.S), with the usual simple hair rig tied in gets them without any problem. They hook themselves !
There have been days when I have had many strong bites but failed to hook up. So I often use a 3 oz quiver tip in the summer low flow conditions, then I catch the odd chub and bream and often the gudgeon size barbel that are occasionally around in nuisance numbers.
But the last time I used the quiver tip I was getting lots of slight pulls and eventually struck into the jab - to find I had hooked a good sized carp! Big boil on the surface as this carp raced the 10 metres into weed and rocks - game over!
Not expecting this would happen again I carried on with the quivertip and smallish boilie bait. Same sequence of events with small bites resulting in my finally striking into another good carp. My new hook length had been upped to 15 lb and I kept the fish out of the weeds but he then bolted downriver and into a sunken tree.
So now I wonder just how often these small bites I put down to "chub" might actually have been carp?
As for the barbel I am pretty sure, whatever end rig I decide to use, when they are hungry they WILL hook themselves!
Confidence is great - but how do you generate it IF you are on a sparsely stocked (or even empty) bit of river?
Last winter I got 0 (zero) barbel takes (that I’m aware of !). The year before I got 2. Just for reference my fishing mate did catch 3 or 4 last year on a different stretch - so our method does work. We just need to find some fish !
I could I suppose go and fish an easier river - but to my mind it wont be the same. Competitive feeding, different flow conditions, more angling pressure etc etc, so what would I learn ?
I like experimenting, but it’s very difficult when you have so little data…..
So I’m working on the basis that I use the best rig I can (taking inspiration from carp and other species fishing) and hope for the best….
Is that confidence ?
Paul Bullinger
Senior Member & Supporter
I feel your pain!!!
As an old angling mate of mine once said "If it was easy it would be called catching, not fishing". I think he nicked that quote from somewhere, I cant believe he thought it up!!!
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Thames Tim?
Terry Simner
Senior Member & Supporter
I reckon misplaced confidence is much worse than no confidence at all... and controlled impatience is much better than patience.
PS... I'm desperately trying to control my impatience at the mo...leaves, canoeists, and a possible blank in the making.Controlled impatience is exactly how I fish.I reckon misplaced confidence is much worse than no confidence at all... and controlled impatience is much better than patience.
Stephen Crowhurst
Senior Member
You also want to believe that if a pick up does come your as likely as possible to connect to that fish. If I think I can get an extra 20% I’m going to take it.
Ady Brayshaw
Senior Member & Supporter
Ironically you may learn more from going and fishing the 'easier' river.
Damian Kimmins
Senior Member
There is another element to that if you don't mind me saying, and that is the fish's propensity to feed - in my mind this is the variable that can leave open to interpretation the value of looking at rigs or not.Because, as you know Terry, it's not rocket science mate, although you could be forgiven for thinking it is. Location and feed are the key elements, after that if you have a decent bait on a decent rig, in the right place , it will catch
On one day a fish, or several fish, may not be willing to feed in earnest and looking at your rig may offer a better efficiency. On another day it really wouldn't matter!
David Craine
Senior Member & Supporter
Basically I think commercially made rigs catch more anglers than fish , after all they would not be made unless there was a market for them, and boy there must be a market because there seem to be thousands.
All you need to make an effective rig is Mono and a hook IMO. I manage fine with minimal rig bits, as far as just a hook and bait on occasion .If I catch its down to me and not the rig, likewise if I fail,.
I have that much confidence in the simple rigs I make myself from mono and hook I do not buy any additional bits except for bait bands occasionally .
But if buying a commercially made rig or rig part is what you want to do go for it,If you think it increases your catch rate why not ? After all without a customer these companies would go bust.
David .
All you need to make an effective rig is Mono and a hook IMO. I manage fine with minimal rig bits, as far as just a hook and bait on occasion .If I catch its down to me and not the rig, likewise if I fail,.
I have that much confidence in the simple rigs I make myself from mono and hook I do not buy any additional bits except for bait bands occasionally .
But if buying a commercially made rig or rig part is what you want to do go for it,If you think it increases your catch rate why not ? After all without a customer these companies would go bust.
David .
David Desmitt
Member
Forgive me in advance if my comments are difficult to understand because English is not my mother tongue:
It seems to me that most of the line twitch and other "aborted touches" are caused by fish bumping into the wire or touching the feeder. The barbel, which swims with the pectoral fins extended and the champion in this context. If you don’t believe me, I suggest you remove the hook link and relaunch your line on the spot. Some shots are incredibly powerful, up to trigger the baitrunner! There are also the small fish that pull the bait, but I don’t think that’s a big problem.
A set-up adapted to the conditions of the moment is relatively effective (I spent hours in the trees watching the carp and barbel prick to be convinced). I use the semi fixed rig when the flow is not powerful enough to make the fish self-supporting. I do not hesitate, when it is possible to use a flying back lead or to fish slack line because I have confidence in my rig. The size of the bait, the length of the hook link and the sharpening of the hook are also decisive. I sharpen my hooks with the Jag Kit during fishing and I throw a hook when it no longer suits me. Even if my friend still wants to fish with lol.
It seems to me that most of the line twitch and other "aborted touches" are caused by fish bumping into the wire or touching the feeder. The barbel, which swims with the pectoral fins extended and the champion in this context. If you don’t believe me, I suggest you remove the hook link and relaunch your line on the spot. Some shots are incredibly powerful, up to trigger the baitrunner! There are also the small fish that pull the bait, but I don’t think that’s a big problem.
A set-up adapted to the conditions of the moment is relatively effective (I spent hours in the trees watching the carp and barbel prick to be convinced). I use the semi fixed rig when the flow is not powerful enough to make the fish self-supporting. I do not hesitate, when it is possible to use a flying back lead or to fish slack line because I have confidence in my rig. The size of the bait, the length of the hook link and the sharpening of the hook are also decisive. I sharpen my hooks with the Jag Kit during fishing and I throw a hook when it no longer suits me. Even if my friend still wants to fish with lol.