• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Thoughts on Barbel wising up to rigs

Returning to this thread after some time having become addicted to looking at rigs.
Late last season I decided to try something to see whether or not I was having baits picked up but not catching. I did this by threading a stop on the line via a fine baiting needle to create a loop in my hooklength. The number of times the loop had been pulled out and the stop pulled from the line without indication was surprising in the extreme.
Following that, an extended period of looking at carp fishing you tube videos looking at rigs and their applications during the close season has me absolutely addicted at looking at rigs.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Returning to this thread after some time having become addicted to looking at rigs.
Late last season I decided to try something to see whether or not I was having baits picked up but not catching. I did this by threading a stop on the line via a fine baiting needle to create a loop in my hooklength. The number of times the loop had been pulled out and the stop pulled from the line without indication was surprising in the extreme.
Following that, an extended period of looking at carp fishing you tube videos looking at rigs and their applications during the close season has me absolutely addicted at looking at rigs.
Click to expand...
Why is it surprising ?

We aren’t as good as some of us think we are. Fish pick up baits and ‘get away with it’ all the time. Even barbel.

You should have seen some of the rigs I tried to catch some crafty old chub last Winter……
 
I guess it's surprising because in spite of that the simplest of rigs will still catch the wiliest of fish.
I have to say I still don't buy in to this kind of conscious knowledge on the part of our quarry, that they know they are being angled for and apply measures accordingly, just that when they are feeding warily there are changes that can be made to increase our chances.
Chub in particular are very good at avoiding being caught using the standard hair rig as most will know, as I'm sure barbel will too to some extent, but learning about some of the carp rigs and applying them in those situations has been very interesting.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I guess it's surprising because in spite of that the simplest of rigs will still catch the wiliest of fish.
I have to say I still don't buy in to this kind of conscious knowledge on the part of our quarry, that they know they are being angled for and apply measures accordingly, just that when they are feeding warily there are changes that can be made to increase our chances.
Chub in particular are very good at avoiding being caught using the standard hair rig as most will know, as I'm sure barbel will too to some extent, but learning about some of the carp rigs and applying them in those situations has been very interesting.
Click to expand...
Some on here are time served carp/chub etc etc anglers and we still get ‘done’ by barbel.

As I’ve said on this thread already, fish seem to be able to work rigs out - eventually. Maybe some fish work it out quicker than others…..

Maybe also if a fish is feeding hard (for whatever reason) it might be a bit easier to fool. That is one reason why I tend to only go barbel fishing when I think they are feeding hard……
 
Les Daniels said:
I'm unsure if fish actually do "suss" out a rig or its mechanics, they most certainly do get warier as they mature and it is this very behavior that I believe leads us to think that a particular;lar rig has blown.
Click to expand...
I think it could be classed as anthropomorphising.
 
Les Daniels said:
I'm unsure if fish actually do "suss" out a rig or its mechanics, they most certainly do get warier as they mature and it is this very behavior that I believe leads us to think that a particular;lar rig has blown.
Click to expand...
How long does it take for a fish to ‘mature’ ?

Here is an example of what I’m getting at. At Sywell in 1985 we first started using short hook link bolt rigs for tench and I reckon we caught nearly every fish that picked up the bait. It was ridiculous -we went from having our hooks bitten off with no indication to catching bags of 7lb plus fish. BUT within 2 weeks everybody there was using that rig and the fish worked out how to spin our reels and somehow not get hooked.

We didn’t change things, but the fish did. So that rig stopped being super effective. Then the ball was back in our court - so the rig got refined over the years and it still works today. But it’s not as effective as it was that first fortnight.

Think of the original Lenny Middleton hair rig and what that did to capture rates…then think about the last 40 odd years and the variations that have been devised to try and replicate that success rate……
 
Slightly off topic, but thought I’d share anyways.

I was fishing the Hants Avon a few weeks back. The river is teaming with silvers this year, even by its own standards and my double superglued 10mm pellets were being whittled down to next to nothing within 40 mins or so of each chuck. At least the taps and plucks were keeping me entertained. I’d seen a Barbel or three in the spot and was hopeful that one would get to the hook bait before it was decimated.

Half an hour or so into a new cast, I’d had the same thing as the previous attempts, a more or less constant load of knocks and plucks.

I started thinking about winding in to put a fresh couple of pellets on. Then I started thinking (almost an internal monologue, actually); ‘I wonder how many times over the years have I picked up the rod to wind in just as a Barbel was about to pick up the bait? What’s the closest one has been? Inches? Feet? Or maybe it’s never happened at all…’

I finished my pondering and picked up the rod to wind in, but noticed a little loop on the spool. I slackened off the clutch and pulled a couple of feet of line off and goodbye loop. I tightened back up to wind in…

Then the rod went off in my hand! If it hadn’t have been for that loop on the spool…

Never mind wising up to rigs, that particular 5lber was sentient, had the ability to read minds and showed a nice bit of charity too! 😂
 
Seen it so many times over the years and just put it down to catching a number of Barbel on the same rigs in quick time, a bit like a bait blowing. It can happen within a week if you are catching numbers from the same area. Change your rig or bait and your catch rate can go back to normal. Back in the 1980's on a very low Summer Bristol Avon at Kelaways sight fishing I learned how quick Barbel could learn. Back in those days my rigs were not very advanced. One week two casters on a twelve hook, 8lb line over hemp caught 8 Barbel from one swim in a couple of hours. My mate Pete caught a similar amount from a swim upstream. A week later casters on a twelve hook in the same swims could not get a pick up, (probably fishing for the same fish). I changed to a 14 and round the rod went and continued to do so, my mate changed and also caught. A week later the size 14 sat untouched with Barbel hoovering up around it. Change to a 14 with a 1lb mono hair and casters on a fine wire bent back 20 hook and round the rod went, my mate had the same result.
 
I think a lot of this comes down to doesn’t look or feel right as a free offering. Free line a bait and it’s often nailed.
It’s also worth noting that pulls could be from anything, there’s some clonking Dave on the Avon that bang away on the pellet.
 
The biggest current 'conclusion' in any carp rig (and for carp fishing at any rate) is that we get 'done' all the time irrespecitive of bait / location / conditions. Carp feed in different ways and with differing intensitites so when we do actually prick the fish it can be on the 2nd or 20th attempt by the fish to snaffle the bait. On this basis rigs that 're-set' are the most logical (hence the popularity of the ronnie rig) because in a game of percentages they are always fishing no matter how many times they've been previously investigated / moved etc. It also mitigates recasting disturbance when an 'obvious' opportunity has been missed (showing fish still in the area / clouded up bottoms / fizzing etc)

Obviously still water and stiff short hooklinks make 're-setting' a whole lot easier - if this premis also applies to feeding barbel (constant rejection / repositioning rigs to areas that are unfishable / presented poorly) other than recasting more frequently how can we create a moving water rig that effectively does the same thing? Are super long hooklinks actually the problem and do we need to create a much heavier weighted 'pivot' point closer to the hook itself to achieve a similar 're-set' effect?
 
Last edited:
7" of flouro hooklink and a kryston samson hair , the rig will reset itself and the fine flexible hair gives some movement around the hook
 
Terry Harman said:
I’m saying nothing … unusually
Click to expand...
Int that usual for you?!
Chris Belcher said:
The biggest current 'conclusion' in any carp rig (and for carp fishing at any rate) is that we get 'done' all the time irrespecitive of bait / location / conditions. Carp feed in different ways and with differing intensitites so when we do actually prick the fish it can be on the 2nd or 20th attempt by the fish to snaffle the bait. On this basis rigs that 're-set' are the most logical (hence the popularity of the ronnie rig) because in a game of percentages they are always fishing no matter how many times they've been previously investigated / moved etc. It also mitigates recasting disturbance when an 'obvious' opportunity has been missed (showing fish still in the area / clouded up bottoms / fizzing etc)

Obviously still water and stiff short hooklinks make 're-setting' a whole lot easier - if this premis also applies to feeding barbel (constant rejection / repositioning rigs to areas that are unfishable / presented poorly) other than recasting more frequently how can we create a moving water rig that effectively does the same thing? Are super long hooklinks actually the problem and do we need to create a much heavier weighted 'pivot' point closer to the hook itself to achieve a similar 're-set' effect?
Click to expand...
A more rigid hooklength?
 
Chris Belcher said:
The biggest current 'conclusion' in any carp rig (and for carp fishing at any rate) is that we get 'done' all the time irrespecitive of bait / location / conditions. Carp feed in different ways and with differing intensitites so when we do actually prick the fish it can be on the 2nd or 20th attempt by the fish to snaffle the bait. On this basis rigs that 're-set' are the most logical (hence the popularity of the ronnie rig) because in a game of percentages they are always fishing no matter how many times they've been previously investigated / moved etc. It also mitigates recasting disturbance when an 'obvious' opportunity has been missed (showing fish still in the area / clouded up bottoms / fizzing etc)

Obviously still water and stiff short hooklinks make 're-setting' a whole lot easier - if this premis also applies to feeding barbel (constant rejection / repositioning rigs to areas that are unfishable / presented poorly) other than recasting more frequently how can we create a moving water rig that effectively does the same thing? Are super long hooklinks actually the problem and do we need to create a much heavier weighted 'pivot' point closer to the hook itself to achieve a similar 're-set' effect?
Click to expand...
Great post Chris ... thanks. The only 'thing' (question) that I'd add (just in from the pub😂) is .... there are SO many great barbel anglers out there making so many 'catching' videos and pushing so many must-have products. There are guys catching so many doubles, consistently. But none of them is saying "This rig is best", "THIS is the dog's..." or "That rig is rubbish" or "use this gizmo and you'll catch more barbel". None, which I find weird. How come the likes of Korum etc aren't coming out with books, booklets, diagrams, of 'barbel rigs' in the same way as so many suppliers/anglers/'specialists' do re. carp? Why is it only us on BFW (apparently/mostly) that are doing all the "We're being done" navel gazing?
N.b.. I love playing with rigs but in all honesty I don't think it makes the slightest difference in 'hook-up rates'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top