• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Thoughts on Barbel wising up to rigs

Clive Kenyon said:
Don't want pick an argument. But don't you think that carp anglers are striving for a self-hooking rig that works whether they are sat by their rods or asleep in a bivvy? Whereas barbel anglers for the most part are sat by their rods and strike into the fish or at least instantly respond to a bite or knock.

As for fashion: I see carp anglers using the latest hi-tech rigs and baits that have been designed for huge pressurised carp when they are fishing for much smaller wildies or in virtually unfished waters.

Are these new rigs necessary? Yes. But only to some anglers. Not all.
Click to expand...
clive it doesn’t matter how close you are sitting to your rods .. if a barbel ejects your rig there’s nothing you can do about it .. there are plenty of pressured barbel in the country too…all i’m saying is we need to be a bit more forward thing like carp anglers…. we can’t even get a tackle company to design a decent rod hold-all for christ’s sake
 
Tim Marks said:
As in most types of fishing there are ‘good’ carp anglers and then there are the rest.

My definition of good doesn’t just revolve around ’who catches the biggest fish’ - any old fool can catch a big fish IF they sit there long enough.

The good anglers (in my book) are the ones who consistently catch big fish (of whatever species) AND they catch them quickly .

One facet of that (one of many) is using good rigs. I won’t bore you with my take on the others…..

I fail to see why that logic doesn’t apply to barbel fishing.
Click to expand...
One facet Tim, one of many that you may apply in your fishing, some important, some less so.
 
Terry Harman said:
clive it doesn’t matter how close you are sitting to your rods .. if a barbel ejects your rig there’s nothing you can do about it .. there are plenty of pressured barbel in the country too…all i’m saying is we need to be a bit more forward thing like carp anglers…. we can’t even get a tackle company to design a decent rod hold-all for christ’s sake
Click to expand...
What is forward thinking? By what measure do you assess the need to think again?
From a little millpool where the ducks are doubtless being fed constantly with bread, the barbel have managed to tap into an easy food source, I'm not sure how that can be used to highlight a need to look at using combi rigs and the like. Forgive me.
 
for one it’s not just a millpool it’s a very fast flowing inlet next to a bridge on the upper lea and for two you have answered your own argument again the angler has read the situation and changed his method accordingly…. so therefore if he sees barbel taking bread off the surface he’s not going to use a combi rig or any bottom rig for that matter therefore he is thinking about his tactics … exactly the same as if you think barbel are ejecting your baits ( which they are ) then tweak your rigs so they can’t …. and when they learn to eject that one tweak it again
if you want to use the same old rigs time and time again that’s up to you but don’t dismiss anglers who want to think about they’re fishing a bit more……. do you drive a ford cortina by any chance ?
 
When I first fished the Lot for barbel my end rig was a very simple running ledger, size 6 hook and a bit of cooked prawn threaded around the hook bend. I had a couple of fish and missed a lot of good bites!

Reading these forums got me using hair rigs and boilies. Once I got past a few blanks (on some very duff rock hard boilies!) and my old buddy in Scotland sent me some Slayer Triple S boilies I started catching regularly.

Looking back though, it seems I often caught the biggest barbel in a new swim at my first visit. Sometimes on my first cast!

After 4 years here this seems to be a repeating story. After catching a few of the bigger barbel in a stretch of river it seems they never return to my hook. I am left with the "average" size fish on return sessions.

This is on a completely unpressured fishery. So I am left thinking that the few exceptional sized barbel in a stretch may become wary of a bait and presentation very quickly indeed!

Anyway, I enjoy "tweaking" my rigs and reading these forums often gives me ideas to improve bait presentation. So many different boilies to try as well, again sometimes they only work well for one session. Is it just landing lucky once on a ravenous shoal - or do the fish really "wise up"???

Recently I whipped fine braid hairs to hook shanks to allow more flexibilty between the hook and bait. I am pretty convinced now that there are times when barbel are put off by the weight of the hook being felt directly on picking up the bait, when using standard mono/fluoro knotless knot rigs. That stiff link to the hook means the fish lifts the hook at the moment the bait is found. More of the gentler bites are being turned into hooked fish with a flexible hair (I think!)

I believe barbel can be just as "shy" as any other fish. That makes fishing much more interesting than just chucking out a bait on any-old rig and waiting for something to hook itself!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Terry Harman said:
for one it’s not just a millpool it’s a very fast flowing inlet next to a bridge on the upper lea and for two you have answered your own argument again the angler has read the situation and changed his method accordingly…. so therefore if he sees barbel taking bread off the surface he’s not going to use a combi rig or any bottom rig for that matter therefore he is thinking about his tactics … exactly the same as if you think barbel are ejecting your baits ( which they are ) then tweak your rigs so they can’t …. and when they learn to eject that one tweak it again
if you want to use the same old rigs time and time again that’s up to you but don’t dismiss anglers who want to think about they’re fishing a bit more……. do you drive a ford cortina by any chance ?
Click to expand...
I will not argue against choosing a method based on what you can see vs making wholesale changes against what you can't. So we come to the crux of the matter - that is, your starting point for the basis of you making those changes namely the indications you get and your perceiving them to be what you do, is not something I agree with, thus I don't feel the need to change.
Its rather strange that applying some logic based on what I have seen when I am fishing brings about accusations of being stuck in some kind of time warp.
'Plurality should not be posited without necessity'
William of Ockham
 
I showed the examples of the German rig mainly because i know there are people on here who are interested in rig development and thought they may find it useful to them or even find that there are some already using it but after reading some of the comments after my post i dont know why i bothered . Most of barbel anglers developments come from the carp world and we use /adjust certain technics for our needs but what i do notice on the carp forums is that if anyone puts up a rig/ bait etc up for discussion its normally discussed and ideas are pinged back and forward on how it could be improved or adjusted for certain venues /water conditions etc. On here if anyone puts up any thoughts/theory's on rig /baitdevelopment there met with the same old same old of " is it necessary , are we overthinking, not needed for barbel etc which is so negative and counter productive on advancing techniques that might put a few extra fish on the bank . If your happy using methods and dont see the need to change then happy days crack on but dont come on here and and kill the thread with negativity , just leave it to those who are interested in more complex ideas that we find interesting and may put a few extra fish in our net. In future any rig ideas/thoughts i have i will share with the few on here who share the same mindset privately rather than read the same old negative response to any forward thinking that kills the thread
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I will not argue against choosing a method based on what you can see vs making wholesale changes against what you can't. So we come to the crux of the matter - that is, your starting point for the basis of you making those changes namely the indications you get and your perceiving them to be what you do, is not something I agree with, thus I don't feel the need to change.
Its rather strange that applying some logic based on what I have seen when I am fishing brings about accusations of being stuck in some kind of time warp.
'Plurality should not be posited without necessity'
William of Ockham
Click to expand...
it’s not based on what i perceive i have watched barbel feeding at very close quarters on the upper lea in very clear water that’s why i know barbel are picking up your bait without getting hooked

you get out what you put in … ignorance gets you nothing
Terry of Stevenage
 
Chris Thomson said:
Perhaps we need a separate section on BFW called Rigs where anyone who has any thoughts/ideas can post on with a view to discussing and sharing ideas and at least if anyones not interested in rigs or rig mechanics they dont have to go into that section and leave us who are alone
Click to expand...
Can I have a section for those who fish with tank aerials and bent pins and drive Ford Cortinas? 🙄😂
 
Chris Thomson said:
I showed the examples of the German rig mainly because i know there are people on here who are interested in rig development and thought they may find it useful to them or even find that there are some already using it but after reading some of the comments after my post i dont know why i bothered . Most of barbel anglers developments come from the carp world and we use /adjust certain technics for our needs but what i do notice on the carp forums is that if anyone puts up a rig/ bait etc up for discussion its normally discussed and ideas are pinged back and forward on how it could be improved or adjusted for certain venues /water conditions etc. On here if anyone puts up any thoughts/theory's on rig /baitdevelopment there met with the same old same old of " is it necessary , are we overthinking, not needed for barbel etc which is so negative and counter productive on advancing techniques that might put a few extra fish on the bank . If your happy using methods and dont see the need to change then happy days crack on but dont come on here and and kill the thread with negativity , just leave it to those who are interested in more complex ideas that we find interesting and may put a few extra fish in our net. In future any rig ideas/thoughts i have i will share with the few on here who share the same mindset privately rather than read the same old negative response to any forward thinking that kills the thread
Click to expand...
Chris Thomson said:
I showed the examples of the German rig mainly because i know there are people on here who are interested in rig development and thought they may find it useful to them or even find that there are some already using it but after reading some of the comments after my post i dont know why i bothered . Most of barbel anglers developments come from the carp world and we use /adjust certain technics for our needs but what i do notice on the carp forums is that if anyone puts up a rig/ bait etc up for discussion its normally discussed and ideas are pinged back and forward on how it could be improved or adjusted for certain venues /water conditions etc. On here if anyone puts up any thoughts/theory's on rig /baitdevelopment there met with the same old same old of " is it necessary , are we overthinking, not needed for barbel etc which is so negative and counter productive on advancing techniques that might put a few extra fish on the bank . If your happy using methods and dont see the need to change then happy days crack on but dont come on here and and kill the thread with negativity , just leave it to those who are interested in more complex ideas that we find interesting and may put a few extra fish in our net. In future any rig ideas/thoughts i have i will share with the few on here who share the same mindset privately rather than read the same old negative response to any forward thinking that kills the thread
Click to expand...
brilliant post chris… the way i see it is the very best anglers at the top of there game are innovative and think about every aspect of there fishing… they will try different things be it baits or rigs sometimes it doesn’t work but other times it does… then after a time they share it with us through magazines or forums etc and then we follow
i like to be a bit innovative and try new things if i found a successful method i would share it on here so others could try it for themselves…
the people who say there’s no need to change anything are probably using the hair rig so have already succumbed to change… so their argument is flawed….. quoting english philosophers doesn’t put more fish on the bank either
 
A few more thoughts to add to the debate . There are a few comments as to fish being able to see rigs and to mitigate against this attempts are made to camouflage the end rig to make it less visible to the Barbel . Given that the bait/end rig is usually on the river bed, can Barbel actually see it at all ? The position of their eyes would suggest that their forward and sideways vision would be at best limited . I think most of the barbels ' seeing' is done with its mouth and barbules . Another thought ; most of the comments on the thread seem to relate to using boilies , pellets and bits of meat etc as bait , perhaps the Barbel are spooking on the bait ,associating certain baits with danger , perhaps they might spook less on natural baits like worms which they must encounter all the time , has anyone seen the spooking phenomena with natural baits?
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
A few more thoughts to add to the debate . There are a few comments as to fish being able to see rigs and to mitigate against this attempts are made to camouflage the end rig to make it less visible to the Barbel . Given that the bait/end rig is usually on the river bed, can Barbel actually see it at all ? The position of their eyes would suggest that their forward and sideways vision would be at best limited . I think most of the barbels ' seeing' is done with its mouth and barbules . Another thought ; most of the comments on the thread seem to relate to using boilies , pellets and bits of meat etc as bait , perhaps the Barbel are spooking on the bait ,associating certain baits with danger , perhaps they might spook less on natural baits like worms which they must encounter all the time , has anyone seen the spooking phenomena with natural baits?
Click to expand...
i don’t think it’s a sight thing mike for me it’s one step further than that what i’m trying to achieve is once the barbel has picked up my rig it can’t eject it …. it’s as simple as that .. good point about them being less cautious on naturals though
 
Perhaps another thing to consider would be the use of moving baits i.e. the trundling/ rolling approach ,as the bait passes the feeding barbel it has little chance to '' examine'' the bait /rig and has to grab it or lose it , also this method would be a closer replication of how Barbel encounter food , namely coming to them in the current . Obviously this method would not work as well in slow flow conditions as hard to keep the bait on the move as it were
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Perhaps another thing to consider would be the use of moving baits i.e. the trundling/ rolling approach ,as the bait passes the feeding barbel it has little chance to '' examine'' the bait /rig and has to grab it or lose it . Obviously this method would not work as well in slow flow conditions as hard to keep the bait on the move as it were
Click to expand...
in slow flow that’s where something like the german rig would come into play ..by using a wafter ..although it’s a static bait the wafter gives a certain degree of movement and sometimes that’s just enough
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top