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The river closed season debate

Steve Williams said:
That would be fine Ray, if 'everyone else' was kept off the rivers and banks too, but sadly walkers, boaters, canoeists, fly fishermen etc can all access the river and its banks while we sit at home, obeying an outdated pointless rule.

Steve
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Exactly my point Steve. I have nothing against the fly fisher, i indulge myself now and again, but this whole 'give the environment a break' argument is flawed with so many other users of the river given open access.
 
Confused here.... what would be the point of keeping canoeists, walkers, boaters etc, off the banks and river, during the closed season???
 
Damian Kimmins said:
There is no case with the eastern europeans Adrian, nor the canoeists or the dog walkers. You must argue for the principle of the close season if you are to use something other than it's principle for it's abolition, it's a case of simple logic. If you disagree with the principle of the close season you must argue against that principle, not against something unrelated.
Like I said, if you argue that eastern europeans are the issue in taking fish for the pot, you are actually arguing for the close seasons overiding principle, and, therefore must logically look to have it policed, not abolished!
It's akin to having an offence removed from legislation on account of there being too many committing the offence - well, it's not akin is it, it's precisely the same! We don't require the police to remove offences from law do we, we ask them to get out there and catch some criminals!
We pay our taxes to the fund the NHS but we still donate to causes relating to our good health! We still pay our licence fees to fish, yet we still donate to causes relating to the upkeep of our rivers. Here, in this situation, with little alternatives coming to mind, we need to act ourselves to protect our fishing.

Regards

Damian
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Damian, with all due respect, you make patrolling the banks and doing something about it ourselves sound so simplistic. You may live very close to your local river, unfortunately i don,t. My nearest river is approx 40 miles away. If i,m lucky, i can take one day a week off work. Should i spend £25 on fuel for a round trip, and walk the banks in the closed season, hoping to catch a rogue group of eastern europeans illegally fishing, or should i spend it with my family ? Honest answer please. It sounds as though you fish small intimate rivers, that see a lot of pressure. The rivers that i would normally fish are the Severn or the Ribble, big rivers, that don,t receive the same amount of pressure. On occasions, there have been days when i,ve never seen another angler, even when roving with a rod and landing net. Would you not even consider, letting the controlling club of a particular stretch, decide when to stop fishing for spawning purposes, which maybe outside of the current closed season ?
 
Jon Frisby said:
Confused here.... what would be the point of keeping canoeists, walkers, boaters etc, off the banks and river, during the closed season???
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John, canoeists and boaters both damage spawning grounds, whether it be open or closed season, without a second thought. Where as an angler would think twice if he/she saw the spawning taking place, a boat/canoeist would just carry on regardless.

Dog walkers, especially the dogs, trample the ground that is supposed to be " RECOVERING " from angling pressure. Who would you say takes the most care ? a wild frisky dog, or a responsible angler ?
 
Derek,

Have you seen the Ribble in the close season, it's a joke.
And yes, before you ask, it has all been reported many times before to the EA and police.
Then again, it's a joke in the fishing season also. People fishing 6 (or more) rods on some streches! Litter, fires, drunken mayhem, wanton vandalism.
I'm astounded that the land owners still put up with it.

Regards,

Jeff
 
Let me tell you firstly, Derek, I may come across as wholly immodest when simply viewed, but I wish no one to view me as different to anyone else, I just say things as I see them and feel them to be.
I travel 85 miles to fish on the banks of the Avon, and travel the same distance to work there too.
I have an intense dislike for where I live, in London, and have no family of my own to consider. These, it has to be said are most definitely factors in allowing me to decide what I do with my leisure time. If my situation were different I may well be spending time with a family or decorating the house.
However, spending time on the river at this time of year and listening to those who don't, whilst realising we may be talking about different rivers of the country, there most certainly are discrepancies between what I experience and what I hear. How can we be certain our rivers are plagued by dog walkers, canoeists and eastern europeans if we are not on the banks. It's a defeatist attitude by those who espouse such really, who might just as well say, 'the reason I have for the abolition of the close season is because I couldn't care less', 'they're out there, so why not me'?
I might be lucky where I fish Derek. Largely, the Avon, with it's status as a SSSI (site of special scientific interest (in fact it has two- one for the valley and one for the river)), any activity on it's banks is quite closely monitored, and it's most likely a close season would remain because of that. Elsewhere, without that designation, clubs would be free to decide what it is they want, yes. For me however, it's clear that most clubs, if not all, would manage to view the abolition of the close season to their advantage - year round fishing would mean either a potential increase in income for them, or a desistance from likely to lose them members - which would you chose?
The EA's point (note, Adrian) is quite clear:
While sound scientific evidence was available to support the case for removing the close season on canals, it was not available in respect of rivers. Because all river coarse fisheries have a close season, it is virtually impossible to gather the required evidence - a scientific comparison similar to that done for canals would be needed. Our view is that in the absence of scientific evidence, we must take a precautionary approach towards rivers, retaining the current close season.


Regards

Damian
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
Derek,

Have you seen the Ribble in the close season, it's a joke.
And yes, before you ask, it has all been reported many times before to the EA and police.
Then again, it's a joke in the fishing season also. People fishing 6 (or more) rods on some streches! Litter, fires, drunken mayhem, wanton vandalism.
I'm astounded that the land owners still put up with it.

Regards,

Jeff
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You've shot your own argument down there Jeff.


Damian
 
Damian, Unless Natural England were to modify their stance on the closed season, I don't think they would allow fishing on any water be it stillwater or river within the boundaries of a SSSI site. Certainly there was a big issue with closed season fishing being banned on a muddy pool commercial fishery in Broadland a few years ago..... I don't remember the final outcome.
 
Sounds lovely where you fish Damian.

I think the Closed Season should be abolished and managed by the clubs, closing the 'spawning areas' when the fish look like they are beginning to get in the mood and then the area's can be bailiffed accordingly. I always feel the best people to bailiff a stretch of water are the the fishermen themselves, not a lot gets past some people.

The carp boys manage to get it right, some water close as soon as the fish start to spawn and stay closed for a decent amount of time, perhaps the river men should look at doing something similar.

The closed season is an outdated concept, in my humble opinion that is.
 
Really you can't use carp in any argument for or against the closed season as King carp rarely if ever successfully spawn in the UK and wild carp are already virtually extinct due to the impact of king carp.
 
Yes. When Zoo Fish are officially designated the only way to go, what you get is a Zoo run by Monkeys, certainly not Angling.
 
Hi men,

Just trying to sort out the dates for Redmire Zoo now , phoning the monkey that runs it , but it ain't peanuts to visit.

Hatter
 
I'm not saying it doesn't happen Steve, though in this neck of the woods, while the carp obviously spawn, recruitment levels are usually so low as to effectively be non-existent. Certainly this is the case in all the pits and larger lakes I know throughout the Southeast, and while I guess there must be exceptions, I cannot think of a single carp water that is populated by established natural recruitment.

Obviously this wasn't the case with traditional wild carp populations in small, warmer, waters but they have all gone the same way as crucians nowadays and I wouldn't have a clue where to fish for them, mores the pity.
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Damian, Unless Natural England were to modify their stance on the closed season, I don't think they would allow fishing on any water be it stillwater or river within the boundaries of a SSSI site. Certainly there was a big issue with closed season fishing being banned on a muddy pool commercial fishery in Broadland a few years ago..... I don't remember the final outcome.
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No, you're quite right Chris. Certainly stillwaters within the SSSI of the Avon valley remain closed at this time of year. I would say that I think the boundaries of some of those sites do not extend far enough though.
I don't know the circumstances surrounding Broadlands only to say that it seems to open now.




Jeff Edisbury said:
Sorry Damian, in what way?
I have never suggested being an advocate of the removal of the close season.

Jeff
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You're quite right Jeff, sorry.
A comment you made earlier made me think that you did, looking back however, I'm wrong.
The situation you've commented on highlights however that grievances with the close season activity on our rivers are not solved by any anglers presence later on.
We should not have policy dictated by a lowest common denominator of society, should we?
We should maintain pressure to have out of season anglers caught and prosectued, or take measures in conjunction with the clubs that we belong to deny illegal access.

Regards

Damian
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sorry Damian, you misunderstood me... I meant Broadland as the area encompassing the Norfolk Broads SSSI.
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Exactly my point Steve. I have nothing against the fly fisher, i indulge myself now and again, but this whole 'give the environment a break' argument is flawed with so many other users of the river given open access.
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So what you are saying Andrew is that we should 'all' join in with the boaters, dog walkers, canoeists etc and help contribute to the overall destruction and disturbance of the breeding wildfowl, wildlife, fish spawing and recruitment and to continue stopping bankside vegetation recovery which provides santuary and cover for everything along the riverine environment at this critical time.

I am sure a good deal of anglers agree with your way forward in jumping on the bandwagon of destruction for their own interests and just fishing to catch spawning fish, instead of fighting to protect what angling and the river environment and its inhabitants have left.
 
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