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The river closed season debate

Whether anglers are for or against having a closed season, in today's political climate I doubt that their views would be taken into consideration on the matter. While anglers could once justifiably claim to be the main force for conservation on the rivers, today the conservation lobby is far stronger than we are and I wouldn't mind betting that they would be against it.
 
You've hit the nail on the head Chris.
Anglers who bleat on about aboloshing the river Close season disregarding conservation protection issues in the wider spectrum is another nail in their own, and also everyones angling coffin.
Anglers were once said to be 'the eyes on the riverbank' offering protection from pollution and destructive activities, but i don't think that applies any longer with the new breed of anglers of today.
 
Hi Damian,

No worries. I 'm easily confused!

Bang on Ray.

Just got back from a photographic trip down the chichester canal with Cat to try out a new lens. Lots of nesting coots and moorhens. mating damselflies (beautiful damoiselle/southern damselfly) and spawning fish activity, carp and bream I think. People fishing though, and lots of them!
Still, it keeps the east european contingent away.

Regards,
Jeff
 
Barbel have a tough enough time spawing as it is, so even if it gives them an extra 5% chance of doing so by us not being their then how can you argue with that.

Its just childish impatience/selfishness getting the better of people, which even the best of us are susceptible too at some point, ie. ive been down sopley lake this week to vent a little angling frustration on the carp surface fishing.

If the close season was abolished im sure i wouldnt be able, out of principle, to stay away from the banks so the legal inforcement to do so is highly important to me.

Ken T
 
They call them "Trash Fish" if we're going to get all picky and pernickety about name-calling and naming names. Trash fish, by the way, include pretty well anything that won't shift its ass from the bottom and take a surface fly (which rather rules Us and Our Beloved out).
 
Kenneth Thompson said:
Barbel have a tough enough time spawing as it is, so even if it gives them an extra 5% chance of doing so by us not being their then how can you argue with that.

Its just childish impatience/selfishness getting the better of people, which even the best of us are susceptible too at some point, ie. ive been down sopley lake this week to vent a little angling frustration on the carp surface fishing.

If the close season was abolished im sure i wouldnt be able, out of principle, to stay away from the banks so the legal inforcement to do so is highly important to me.

Ken T
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Barbel tough time spawning? Well considering their success at inhabiting all but a few rivers in good quantities my concerns are not for the barbel. Also I believe the barbels eggs are less predated on than other species which might account for their breeding success. No, my concerns are for other species such as roach, perch ,dace, gudgeon, chub.
 
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Neil Smart said:
Barbel tough time spawning? Well considering their success at inhabiting all but a few rivers in good quantities my concerns are not for the barbel. Also I believe the barbels eggs are less predated on than other species which might account for their breeding success. No, my concerns are for other species such as roach, perch ,dace, gudgeon, chub.
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Barbel may be spawning well on the Severn but on many other rivers this is simply not the case, due in no small part to the ever increasing siltload smothering the spawning gravels. As for being predated upon, just don't mention the B word.
 
Neil Smart said:
Barbel tough time spawning? Well considering their success at inhabiting all but a few rivers in good quantities my concerns are not for the barbel. Also I believe the barbels eggs are less predated on than other species which might account for their breeding success. No, my concerns are for other species such as roach, perch ,dace, gudgeon, chub.
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I think you will find that there is little breeding success in most barbel rivers. The reality is that if it wasn't for the EA's legal duty in re-stocking barbel to 'maintain' the presence of the species, there would be only small populations left in the UK.
Only the rivers that are virtually untouched by environmental destruction and pollution have 'natural' recruitment. Hopefully, when the destructive **** stops, only then will the rivers and fish populations be able to recruit 'naturally' and support themselves.
Even the Royalty, Hampshire Avon, the once dubbed UK's 'Barbel Mecca', has also been re-stocked a number of times over the past 20 years or so with 5,000.
The Dorset Stour in various areas has had a re-stocking of 9,000, in more recent years.
 
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Hi men ,

Its all hypothetical anyway , as i posted before , as it wont change in a hurry . Out of interest , how many of those who agree with the river closed season dont wet a line for anything during that period ?. I know someone who trotted for grayling , who now runs a fly that looks like a grub through the same swim ?.

The reason that people fish lakes and canals is because its leagle to do so , and I see no problem with that at all.

Hatter
 
Ray Walton said:
I think you will find that there is little breeding success in most barbel rivers. The reality is that if it wasn't for the EA's legal duty in re-stocking barbel to 'maintain' the presence of the species, there would be only small populations left in the UK.
Only the rivers that are virtually untouched by environmental destruction and pollution have 'natural' recruitment. Hopefully, when the destructive **** stops, only then will the rivers and fish populations be able to recruit 'naturally' and support themselves.
Even the Royalty, Hampshire Avon, the once dubbed UK's 'Barbel Mecca', has also been re-stocked a number of times over the past 20 years or so with 5,000.
The Dorset Stour in various areas has had a re-stocking of 9,000, in more recent years.
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Hi Ray
I was unaware that the Hampshire Avon and Stour as examples you give did not re populate naturally, there has to be some reason for this given the seemingly ideal rivers for barbel they are, other than over enthusiastic 'improvements' you have mentioned, and of course predation.
Do you see/catch juvenile Barbel on the Avon? I do on the Warwickshire Avon and have done on the Bristol Avon, and these two Rivers would on the face of it would seem to have the same sort (if not more) problems the Hants Avon and Stour have, perhaps the problem is less obvious?
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Barbel may be spawning well on the Severn but on many other rivers this is simply not the case, due in no small part to the ever increasing siltload smothering the spawning gravels. As for being predated upon, just don't mention the B word.
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No not me:)
I take your point regarding gravels and these areas deserve to have special protection,and maintenance, however unless they have some Salmon or Sea Trout significance I doubt there is the motivation.
 
Neil Smart said:
No not me:)
I take your point regarding gravels and these areas deserve to have special protection,and maintenance, however unless they have some Salmon or Sea Trout significance I doubt there is the motivation.
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We are going way off track from the thread here Neil, but I don't think it is lack of a will that is the problem here as much as lack of a way. Certainly on the Wensum, Avon and Stour (and more recently on parts of the Gt Ouse, I think?) there has been a good amount of habitat restoration taking place, along with top dressing of gravel riffles and pressure jetting the spawning grounds in preparation for spawning, in partnership with the EA, etc. The trouble is that in many cases this cannot compete with the vast amount of silt and sand entering the river from land run-off. To be effective the problem needs to be prevented at source but there is no legal framework to do this.
 
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Paul Boote said:
Very much open for business - http://www.flyforums.co.uk/news/index.php?news=5779
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Sorry for the confusion Paul. Your post however has me thinking;

despite being a SSSI, even during the coarse fishing close season, the river Avon, as the Test, remains open for game fishing. It's possible that it's the case that if the season were to be abolished it might be deemed, as it is for game anglers, that anglers presence do not affect the management strategies of those SSSIs. Unless of course within those SSSIs coarse fish were designated protected.
My previous post stating there being no coarse fishing on stillwaters within a SSSI seems now to be false statement as certain lakes, to my knowledge within the boundaries of the Avon's SSSI, are closed only, and having just recently found this out, by stipulation from the owners.


Regards

Damian
 
Neil Smart said:
Hi Ray
I was unaware that the Hampshire Avon and Stour as examples you give did not re populate naturally, there has to be some reason for this given the seemingly ideal rivers for barbel they are, other than over enthusiastic 'improvements' you have mentioned, and of course predation.
Do you see/catch juvenile Barbel on the Avon? I do on the Warwickshire Avon and have done on the Bristol Avon, and these two Rivers would on the face of it would seem to have the same sort (if not more) problems the Hants Avon and Stour have, perhaps the problem is less obvious?
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Neil - I don't think Ray's inferring that there's no naturally successful breeding in the Avon and Stour, only that re-stocking replenishes the numbers.

Ray - Perhaps the re-stocking might be unnecessary if the environment was left to replenish its fish numbers naturally?

As with Dave Hall's experience, there's also evidence of successful spawning in my local river, despite it not having an indigenous barbel population.
 
Mark Anderson said:
Hi men ,

Its all hypothetical anyway , as i posted before , as it wont change in a hurry . Out of interest , how many of those who agree with the river closed season dont wet a line for anything during that period ?. I know someone who trotted for grayling , who now runs a fly that looks like a grub through the same swim ?.

The reason that people fish lakes and canals is because its leagle to do so , and I see no problem with that at all.

Hatter
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Hi Mark
Well in the old days we had to hang the rods up full stop for three months and since the still waters have been exempt I guess I have only fished such places a handful of times, not for any moral sense of duty but rather to catch up on other things I need to do. Besides when I have fished for Carp:eek: they seemed not to be interested until the business of the birds and the bees had been resolved, which anyway was about the same time as the River season opening
However some of the well informed comments on here have swayed me more in favour of the closed season, and dare I say even for a complete shut down, but perhaps that is just because I have Man Flu and feeling a bit like a miserable s0d:(
 
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