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Reasons for Barbel population decline

Pete Reading stated;

“You can sex mature barbel by looking at the vent, near the anal fin; females have a fleshy protruding tubular vent, males have a single small hole flush with the skin, but the smaller the barbel the harder it is to see.

At one time Calverton selected the larger fish for some stockings, but as far as I am aware now stock the whole size range from that year class to ensure no sex selection occurs.
I do not think it likely that the sex ratio will vary much within stocked fish anyway, and have any real effect of spawning success.

Far more likely candidates for poor spawning success and recruitment are the obvious ones of poor habitat linked with low flows; barbel need plenty of clean gravel and clean water flowing over it to spawn successfully, plus refuge areas for fry to develop and over-winter in safely.

A combination of other negative factors, such as predation on fry by crays,algae choking eggs, unseasonal flood events, will all play a part in limiting populations.
There will not be a simple answer to what is a very complex question, but interesting to discuss all possibilities.

Hampshire Avon is full of tiny barbel this year, with baby fish from the last two years of spawning in great abundance, so something was right recently; be interesting to see how many survive in the next few years.â€

Personally, I think Pete’s comment above is one of the most interesting made on this thread.

There is no doubt that poor recruitment lies at the heart of the problem on some rivers. I seriously doubt that the aquaculture industry has anything to do with it and would be looking into other areas. Take agricultural practices for example. How does this affect some rivers and not others?

Taking the Trent as an example simply because it’s one of the UK rivers that is doing extremely well today. If you look at the type of agriculture adjacent to the Trent a huge proportion of it is not arable but pasture. This is due in part to the geology of the Trent valley which is extremely rich in gravels which makes for poor agricultural land. As such, the Trent does not suffer from extensive agricultural run off from arable land that other rivers do.

Many of the effects on rivers from agricultural practices include;

Land drainage

Agricultural drainage impacts on the water and sediments of the river system. Land drainage has been used since the mid 18th century to increase the suitability of land for cultivation. As a consequence, it has been suggested that in times of flooding or heavy rain, water levels have risen and fallen much faster (i.e. floods have become more flashy) as a result of drainage

Drainage and ditching lower the water table to enable agriculturally desirable plants to grow more productively. Water falling on the land is transported away more effectively. Thus, in drained catchments, river flow matches the rainfall profile more closely than in a natural catchment (although there will be a time-lag relating to catchment characteristics and the preceding soil saturation level). Drainage reduces the natural buffering capacity of the catchment against floods, so the magnitude and frequency of floods downstream may be increased. Conversely, as the natural 'sponge' effect of the land is reduced, drained land may be drier for longer. Lowering of the water table can be detrimental to wetland communities


Generally, field drains are not responsible for large sediment inputs, but do cause an accelerated throughput of water. They constitute a long lasting alteration of the natural flow regime and have become part of the 'natural' process of surface water run-off

Abstractions for irrigation

Unregulated water abstraction for crop spraying and irrigation reduces the flow left in the stream. This is particularly significant during periods of low flow when a given extraction rate takes a greater percentage of the total discharge. Aquatic flora and fauna will thus lose habitat, and pollution will be less diluted in periods of abstraction and low flow.

River engineering works

Piecemeal bank protection is often undertaken at sites where farmland is being eroded. Methods include dumping boulders, concrete and car bodies against the eroding bank. The use of such 'hard' material tends to alter instream flow dynamics, deflecting the main current and causing bank erosion immediately downstream. Traditionally, gabion baskets and rip-rap have been used to provide long-term bank protection. They are now widely questioned on environmental grounds as they are visually intrusive, reduce bankside habitat availability and alter natural instream and bankside processes. Other 'hard' bank protection methods include, the use of current deflectors (though this may cause erosion on the opposite bank), the use of a stone berm at the toe of the bank, and bank reprofiling to reduce bank slope Soft engineering involves planting and the use of geotextile filter layers, and aims to dissipate rather than deflect the river's energy. It is less obtrusive than 'hard' engineering. Good practices for river engineering are detailed in Hoey et al (1995).

Ploughing and crop cultivation

Soil erosion occurs when there is a combination of heavy rain or wind, and exposed soil. Erosion by water most commonly occurs where there are clear routes for the run-off to follow, such as plough furrows and tyre wheelings running up and down the slope. The impact of erosion upon the river system is greater during winter, when an increased sediment load due to exposed soil or high winds, and faster run-off due to a saturated or frozen substrate, results in the arrival of 'coffee coloured' sediment laden run-off in streams

Fields can be particularly vulnerable to soil erosion where crops such as potatoes, swedes and turnips have been grown in rows. Erosion can be serious where conditions have been wet at harvest and the ground between the rows is rutted. Run-off may then become concentrated between the rows. Soil may also be vulnerable to erosion after row crops are planted when there is a high percentage of bare ground. Crop rotation may lead to different levels of soil protection in different years, and ploughing-in of the crop residue after harvest will improve the organic matter content of the soil. Cultivation of steep slopes, and the compaction of land by heavy machinery also exacerbate erosion problems


Fields next to rivers should not be ploughed before or during winter when erosion is exacerbated by periods of heavy, prolonged rain and flooding. If a crop is sown in late summer or early autumn, e g. winter oil-seed rape or winter barley, there is a good chance that there will be an adequate crop cover to prevent serious winter erosion. Undersowing cereal crops with a grass mixture will mean that there is a good cover of vegetation over the winter after the crop is harvested, which will reduce the potential for erosion.

Direct inputs of sediment can be avoided by leaving buffer strips adjacent to watercourses. The appropriate width for the buffer strip depends upon the nature of the soils, the vegetation and the river. Treatment using fertilisers, insecticides, pesticides and herbicides must avoid buffer strips. Water margins can be an important wildlife habitat, and their value is increased if they are protected by a buffer strip. If there is no buffer strip, there is a danger that the margins will become just a nutrient and sediment sink, and that the diversity of plants will be reduced as the area becomes dominated by plants that can take advantage of these nutrients

Livestock

Trampling by cattle and sheep can compact the soil causing increased run-off. Livestock also trample and feed on vegetation, the root systems of which bind soil together. The destruction of vegetation reduces both the interception of rainfall by plants, and the resistance to run-off created by the plants themselves. This means that more of the rain falling on the land runs off into the watercourse immediately after it has fallen, increasing soil erosion and sediment transport. Heavy grazing of the riparian zone will affect the plant community, reduce shading for fish and perhaps reduce beneficial inputs to the stream

Livestock can break banks down by trampling. They can increase bed roughness by repeatedly crossing the stream at certain points (this locally increases flow height), and they disturb the bed, temporarily increasing suspended sediment concentrations Increased bed roughness and loose soil from trampling, increases the susceptibility of banks to erosion, particularly during flood flows. In addition, the sheer weight of livestock on a heavy saturated bank could cause slumping.

Of course rivers face many more threats with pollution being the instant killer if catastrophic pollutants enter rivers and streams. Other threats include endocrine disrupters. Studies in cells and laboratory animals have shown that EDs can cause adverse biological effects in animals, and low-level exposures may also cause similar effects in human beings. The term endocrine disruptoris often used as synonym for xenohormone although the latter can mean any naturally occurring or artificially produced compound showing hormone-like properties (usually binding to certain hormonal receptors). EDCs in the environment may also be related to reproductive and infertility problems in wildlife and bans and restrictions on their use has been associated with a reduction in health problems and the recovery of some wildlife populations.

When I was a SACG/SAA committee member, fellow committee member Phil Hackett championed a campaign against the use and effects of ED’s and I was one of Phil’s supporters that always thought the use of ED’s would come to haunt angling and wildlife eventually.

Regards,
Lee.

The Trent has an interesting and extremely diverse catchment, but it's not without it's problems though. The Upper Trent below Stoke suffers badly from nitrate and phosphate pollution but far less so down stream, no doubt aided by a substantial supply of clean water coming in from the Dove and Derwent. Perhaps the Soar to a lesser extent.

Overall the nitrate levels in the Trent are still considered too high and most of the catchment (Dove and Derwent apart) is designated as a surface water Nitrate Vulnerable Zones due to nitrate leaching from agricultural land.

PS - the SNH paper you have cut and pasted from is a well behind the curve in terms of the soil erosion risk and many of the issues in Scotland are different to those in lowland England - declining SOM for instance.
 
Rob. very suprised to see this post from you

Lee, that really is the most sensible post I've read on this topic, period.

Something with real substance and not clouding the issue with hypotheses of homosexual and diabetic barbel!



I can understand a wish to toe the line etc etc but thought you might be open to consider other possibilities as key issues, especially given the data available. And more to come.

Really suprised.

Grahaml
 
A Recent report highlighted by Howard

Angling baits and invasive crayfish as important trophic subsidies for a large cyprinid fish - Springer

Has indicated that on some rivers, pellets make up over 70% of the food intake.

It has become pretty clear that this product if it contained a Synthetic Steroid, maybe as per Lee has advised, would not only give a massive weight gain, but also affect sexuality of fish adversly. Thats a fact.

The first indications I have from an emminent scientist, is that this would most certainly be the case expecially on smaller slower rivers.

I have been advised the normal fish farm allowance for pellet feed is approx 26 grams per day per fish. ie 3-4 pellets.

I have followed up by now advising him of the actual take up of these products in a barbels diet.

I will detail some responses as appropriate and clarified, but for anyone to query or doubt the data that Lol has provided regards fish sexuality changes from waterborne problems is just being protectionist. IMO

Graham
 
Rob. very suprised to see this post from you

Lee, that really is the most sensible post I've read on this topic, period.

Something with real substance and not clouding the issue with hypotheses of homosexual and diabetic barbel!



I can understand a wish to toe the line etc etc but thought you might be open to consider other possibilities as key issues, especially given the data available. And more to come.

Really suprised.

Grahaml

Graham,

That post really was made with tongue firmly in cheek! Just being a bit mischievous and highlighting some of the more outrageous suggestions.

No wish to toe the party line - my thoughts are entirely my own and you already know what they are. That doesn't mean I don't think some of the ideas put forward are insignificant or worth pursuing whether I agree with their importance or not.

I'm sure you'll agree that a theory of pellets creating a generation of diabetic barbel due to fatty deposits on the liver is a bit far fetched, especially when the origins of such disease generate from the pancreas, an organ that cyprinids don't have! :)

Anyway, back on topic. I still can't believe some still suggest that the success of the Trent is due to it's proximity to Calverton. To create and sustain such an amzing high stock density that the Trent, a huge watercourse has, we must be tipping barbel into the river in their thousands on a daily basis!
 
Rob
I'm glad it was tongue in cheek. It was certainly out of character.

As I have said before. The Trent. I would say it's probably the only river that's not in decline. (as well as some in Herts and Essex both restocked I believe) BUT the Thames valley is in decline. And many others rivers.
You can't ignore the survey on here/facebook etc that shows Anglers real concerns.

Regarding the Trent. Would you say its a re emerged barbel river? say last 15 or so years and more heavily fished laterly for barbel.

Its a fact that rivers when re stocked or initially stocked with what are indeed clean fish....Wye, Severn, Hants Avon etc historically, always seem to show a similar pattern.

Not much showing initially, then a real boom, then increase in size to fish ratios, then a decline of sorts.?

I would put the Trent into that category. Boom time is now.

Also, with the research I am doing it is clear that slower, smaller rivers show a more marked decline and a quicker one when the effects of asexualisation occur, for whatever reason.

If you agree that once determination of the reasons, or at least a good indication of the reasons for the decline in population levels is established then resources should be targetted that way, that's fne.

I believe Lol has established that so far, and I am determined to add weight to the issue of significantly reduced recruitment due to the inability to reproduce.

I cannot comment on liver, diabetic etc comments, because I don't know enough about it. Thats why, like Lol I am seeking scientific information, in my case on Fish farming Pellet constituents and effects as per my theory as a major causative recruitment problem.

Graham
 
If the academic evidence that sexuality changes are taking place from water borne problems ?
Then how can we argue with the evidence ? It wont matter what state our rivers are in , If fish are not reproducing ?
We can argue as much as we like and until some thing is done ?
Will the number of fish continue to decline ?
 
Exactly Joe, I posted a scientific paper written by the EA, on here a few posts back...we are trying to get the EA to give us an update on the subject of the Feminisation of Male Barbel and how they see it now.....
 
Rob, i firmly believe the the emergence of the Trent as a Barbel river is down to Calverton stockings.25 years ago very few people fished for Barbel in the Trent,why,because they were not there in numbers. Archie Braddock first wrote about the recent barbel explosion during the 90's and even he seemed amazed to catch Barbel then.When you see the amounts of fish stocked into the Trent from Calverton eg 50,000 fish in 2009, 95,000 fish in 2010 etc then this must have some bearing on the Explosion.And again the size of the Trent fish, 14lb barbel were like rocking horse do do until Calverton fish started getting stocked all over the country,Adams mill,the Wensum,the Ivel and The Trent.Where do you catch Barbel over 16lb in this country that were not Calverton stocked fish?.That's why i would be sure that these massive barbel showing on the Trent are from Calverton.You are a lucky lot,my local Colne gets a measley 200 barbel every 5 years or so from Calverton, am i envious or what of the fish farms location.
 
Mark
And I understand there is no intention to stock the Kennet, the Mother of so many rivers.

Goodness, no wonder the Trent is fishing so well for what I described as a re-emergent river.

Are those figures actual real life factual estimates Mark? If so...that answers a hell of a lot!!!!

Graham
 
If the academic evidence that sexuality changes are taking place from water borne problems ?
Then how can we argue with the evidence ? It wont matter what state our rivers are in , If fish are not reproducing ?
We can argue as much as we like and until some thing is done ?
Will the number of fish continue to decline ?

Fair comment Joe,
I'm keeping an open mind on this topic but wouldn't be at all surprised to find that water quality has a part to play. We anglers also place a lot of trust in bait manufacturers. Are their products scrutinised for long term ill effects to the same degree as koi feed?
I was banging on about habitat on the poll thread and believe that it remains a key factor.
Where barbel are trapped in a section of a local river that has experienced long term decline their numbers decrease and recruitment stops, whereas in the very same river, a stretch that has retained suitable spawning gravels accompanied by aquatic and marginal cover thrives.
Some years ago the EA undertook habitat restoration on a millstream that takes it's water from a Thames tributary and had long been choked with weed and silted up. The flow split from the main river remained as before, but the flow velocity was increased in places by the placement of large boulders to create gravel riffles and pools. Willow osiers were planted to provide shade and cover, then buffer strips were added to protect the margins.
This year I enjoyed catching roach of over a pound in the pools and glides, accompanied by fingerling barbel which had obviously been born and bred in the stream.
Thirty paces across the meadow you come to the adjacent 'mother' river where a bite from a barbel has become the equivalent of winning the lottery!
Same water, different habitat.

Ps .... Still sitting on the fence,... I've said before on here, with koi keeping you don't 'keep ' koi, you 'keep ' water!
 
Found those figures on the net, they are fact but they are not all Barbel.If you average those figures over say 20 years that's one hell of a lot of fish.If I worked at Calverton and were a fisherman i wonder where i would stock.With the price of man hours and petrol it makes sense to stock locally.Sadly the river Crane (an open ditch in west London) merits more stocking than the Colne and is probably going to get polluted again before they get to adults,if not the Crane will be the place to fish near London in about 10 years,see you all there.
 
Hi Graham,

Boom time for the Trent. I like that.

The Trent, unlike the Severn, Wye and Hampshire Avon, has NEVER been stocked with barbel. Stockings of barbel were made into the Trent's tributary rivers the Derbyshire Derwent, Dove and Soar. These original stocked fish migrated into the river Trent and the rest is history.

There is however, one major difference between the Severn and Trent in regards to its barbel explosions. The Severn explosion of barbel coincided with the match fishing fraternity taking full advantage and it was common for Severn match men to target barbel in matches specifically. It was a different story regarding the Trent as the match men had long deserted the rivers in favour of the commercials before the Trent and its barbel had reached its zenith. Prior to this when matches were extensively fished all the way along the middle Trent river and Golden Mile stretch barbel were known to be in certain pegs only so if one drew these pegs it was normally feeder tactics for barbel in such swims. If the same volume of matches were to be held today the story would be vastly different simply because almost all stretches now contain barbel.

Imagine then what the situation would be like if match men returned to the river like they mute they will, especially if the close season goes? Barbel, and other fish of course, in the run up to actually spawning when fish fill up with spawn well before the spawning temperature is reached would be caught and handled. These fish will also be retained in keepnets throughout the time period of matches. I would reasonably expect to see a massive decline in recruitment if this happens. Make absolutely no mistake, the match fishing fraternity will want to exploit what the Trent now has to offer because it is teeming with fish. So if your boom and bust theory on rivers is correct, other rivers will once again be targeted by match men as they "boom" where again if the close season goes with similar effects and further loss of recruitment.

Add to that my pasted info on agricultural practices. ( I have an endless supply of similar documents that one was chosen because it makes easy reading) Pollution, ED's, etc etc.

Poor recruitment today is often due to poor spawning habitat or spawning habitat that has got compacted with silt.

Nitrates. Something regarding Trent nitrates from the Newark and Sherwood Water Cycle Strategy " If large amounts of fertilizers or farm waste drain into a river the concentration of nitrate and phosphate in the water increases considerably. Algae use these substances to grow and multiply rapidly turning the water green. This massive growth of algae, called eutrophication, leads to pollution. When the algae die they are broken down by the action of the bacteria which quickly multiply, using up all the oxygen in the water which leads to the death of many animals."

"All the rivers studied were of good chemical and biological quality but there seem problems with high levels of nitrate and phosphate. These nutrients can come principally from wastewater treatment works effluents and agriculture.

To address the nutrient issue with regards to wastewater treatment effluents, the River Trent and its catchment, from October 2007 has been designated under the Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive. The EA is unable at present to confirm which wastewater treatment works will have UWWTD consents. The consent will place a phosphate level on the final effluent. To ensure this level is met phosphate removal plants will have to be installed.

The AMP5 (2010-2015) Business Plans are yet to be finalised so until so this information is unknown.

Future development in parts of the district may be limited due to the current sewage treatment infrastructure. Many of the wastewater treatment works may already be using the best technology to produce a good standard final effluent quality. Legislation may have enforced this if the works
serves a large population, it discharges into a sensitive watercourse and/or there is limited dilution of the receiving watercourse. In such circumstances it may not be feasible due to cost and technology to further improve a works effluent. Without an improvement in wastewater treatment effluent, no future development and therefore increased discharge volumes would be accepted.

Other options would have to be considered such as pumping to nearby wastewater treatment works which has capacity."

One might be forgiven if they assumed that the BS would embark on the championing of river issues where there is already an abundance of scientific data readily available already to back up conservation campaigns? Furthermore, the EU Water Directives are also an extremely valuable avenue of pursuit for the opening of dialogue as any such campaign would receive the full backing of the relevant EU department. The Salmon and Trout Association has already gone down this route without any help from the AT as the S&TA are not AT members.

I do however have certain questions regarding the latest tub that you and Lol appear to be thumping seemingly on behalf of the BS, or hopefully so. What data do you have regarding any aquaculture fish feed pellets presumably sold by tackle companies to anglers that contained the chemicals you speak of? Have the aquaculture industry confirmed or denied this. Have you contacted them all for their response? What scientific data do you have in your possession which confirms your accusations? Have you spoken to DEFRA? If so what has been their response?

Regards,

Lee.
 
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