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Otters

I don't believe that otters are the ultimate bogey man that some make them out to be, particularly on the rivers. I suspect that they are more of an issue if they take up residence on a stillwater. If there are excessive populations due to introductions it won't be too long before those populations reduce naturally. Otters have large territories that they will fight to protect. Like most predators, other than man, they won't naturally overpopulate their food source. Plenty of rivers have always had stable otter populations that didn't have a massive impact on fish stocks.

I'm not so naive to think it doesn't happen but any talk of illegally trapping and killing otters does angling and anglers no good whatsoever. You can be concerned and question the future and what has gone on without resorting to the kill 'em all attitude.

P.S. before anyone gets to thinking that I'm a bunny hugger, I've spent more of the last ten years shooting than fishing.;)
 
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Paul i think youre a member of the wrong web site..What stupid comments youve just made..Its anglers and various societys that have made rivers cleaner and report pollution..When otters were in our rivers years ago they were kept under control in order to protect fish stocks and wildfowl and now they are back completely un-regulated and destroying some rivers because un-like years ago fish stocks are alot smaller..Tell you what paul go down your local tackle shop and say what you just have and see what happens and also the various fisherie owners and managers who are witnessing first hand what damage the otters are doing..Your obviously very badly informed regarding this problem..And im not saying kill all otters im simply saying that just like years ago when they were last about they need to be controlled..
 
Get back to me when you have done a fiftieth of the successful multispecies fishing over all but four years of a lifetime that I have, Craig. Good luck with your otters and with the next perceived pest down the line.
 
Paul i respect your right to voice your opinion..But do you realise that when otters have offspring after so long they drive them away from where they were born..where do you think these young otters go?..they move onto other rivers and lakes and thus the process starts all over again!!..They need to be controlled surely paul if you are well informed you must realise this?
 
Jon Frisby said:
Paul, what a load of rubbish. One day you may regret what you condone...
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Paul's aim is a very clear one, one which he is exceptionally adept at achieving..... To provoke a response, and he's done it yet again....

Though he has raised some valid points but I'm not going to elaborate as I can't be doing with being involved in another debate about otters.

Just one point that I'll leave you with;
Otters are indigenous to the rivers Wye, Severn, Teme, Stour, Hamps Warks and Bristol Avons etc etc, and barbel ain't:eek:...
 
otters WERE indigenous to the rivers you mentioned and as i have pointed out they were also controlled unlike now..Tell you what lets bring back otter hunting aswell with otter hounds and horses..I wonder what responce that would bring..:D:D:D
 
Let me just say that my initial comment was very much tongue in cheek.

I can accept otters in rivers - up to a point - but it is the scale of the thing that I find alarming. Over the last few years the number of sightings has multiplies by an astonishing amount and many of those spotted are hunting in broad daylight which implies either their lack of fear of man (reared pups getting released?) or their desperate attempts to get enough food. You decide.

The bigger problem is on lakes. I have taken up a syndicate on a couple of lakes some 15 miles apart in Shropshire, both have small tiny either entering or alongside them, both are many miles from the nearest substantial river yet both have lost fish to otters.

The implication being that there are lots of otters that are widespread. I believe that there are far more than EN would have us believe. Quite how one deals with them is an emotive subject as it effects our pass time and people's businesses.

But don't forget that foxes are cute and hunted mercilessly just because they take a few chickens and lambs.

Time will tell what should or should have been done.
 
Totally agree dave..:)..I was simply saying that there are too many of them and they need controlling and lets be honest that means killing some..as horrible as that sounds it is the only way forward..I dont think natural england realised what affect and indeed damage the re-introduction of otters would cause and they wont admit they were wrong either..:rolleyes:
 
As a regular on the middle Hants Avon and other Christchurch Angling Club water, I have seen first hand the devastation that our local Otter population has caused.
We have found examples of large Barbel that have been killed with the majority of their carcasses left uneaten and also on our lakes where large Carp have been taken in similar fashion.
Whilst I am a lover of most flora and fauna in our wonderful country, I am deeply concerned at the re-introduction of an apex predator onto a waterway who's Atlantic Salmon population is officially in danger.
Whilst I could live without the numbers of large carp and barbel we have (as I dont seem to be able to catch them anyway), I couldnt accept the loss of the Salmon from the H.A just because Natural England think they should be there.
 
I am sorry, but as a pretty successful salmon-fisher (who once fished the Avon - salmon to 27.5lbs) over 44 years and someone who has spent many of those years fishing salmon and sea-trout on prolific Welsh rivers that never lost their otters (and have in recent years seen a boom in otter numbers), I have to advise H.A. salmon bods that it ain't a few otters they have to worry about, it's their RIVER. Get your river back to something how it was in the 1960s and '70s, keep the nets and the salmon-killer anglers off, then watch the salmon return slowly.

But, please, in the meantime, don't go demonizing a few dozen (?) otters that will at the very most take a hundred salmon between them. Look to your river.
 
Imagine how many Salmon, Otter would eat, if they were resident all year round Paul.
 
Paul Boote said:
Sorry, Craig, but you appear to totally misunderstand what rivers are about; they're not barbel (or any other desirable species to fishers) conveyor belts, producing fish in the required number and size to order (which today's pay-for-play holes in the ground are), but living entities supporting much much more than fish. Until we get this into our heads (particularly all we very newly arrived barbel-fishers), we're just beating ourselves up by wanting something we had for a mere decade or so (easily caught barbel whales in abundance) and now expect and demand to last forever, whatever it takes - otters to go etc (what next to go, I wonder). Amazes and disappoints me to see a group of fishers with their barbless hooks and knotless nets and blow-up mats and thousands of pounds worth of cameras just to get a trophy pic baying for blood like a bunch of vermin-hating Victorians and stamping our feet like terrible twos mid-tantrum. But, hey, you guys carry on.
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Well said that man.. I find the hypocrisy of the fish cuddling new wave anglers who think it a terrible thing to take the odd fish for the pot, but then campaign for the shooting of any other species that may want to eat a fish now an again thoroughly disheartening.
I suggest all the Barbel cuddlers with their big blow up mats and bans on going anywhere near the river during the "close" season get together in one gang and take on the only fish that counts is the one that's been to sea and I have more cash than you brigade; for one big punch up. After they have beaten one another to death...the rest of us, content to fish for what is actually in the river and treat them with the respect that wild animals (rather than pets with names) deserve can go fishing.
 
Snobbery is such an ugly face..As demonstrated by pete who thinks he knows it all and paul (old etonian)who talks absulute twaddle..Not one person has said its wrong to take a fish to eat if youve caught it..And as mentioned by paul(old etonian) salmon anglers think its ok to kill barbel and any other course fish that they catch not to eat though just kill for the sake of it because they see course fish as pests...Call yourselves conservationists?..my arse....:D:D
 
Steady on fellas, lets not see this place go the same way as the old version.
People are allowed to disagree with others without either actually being wrong or either party being an idiot.

You know what? When I started fishing again in earnest a couple of years ago it was to get away from the politicking that seemed to be part and parcel of competitive shooting. I never for one moment envisaged that drowning worms could attract the same. I was obviously dead wrong. The sad thing is that I'd put reasonable money on the vast majority of us being able to have a good (civilised) chinwag if we met on a river bank somewhere. Why is it seemingly impossible on-line?
 
Craig Wood said:
Snobbery is such an ugly face..As demonstrated by pete who thinks he knows it all and paul (old etonian)who talks absulute twaddle..Not one person has said its wrong to take a fish to eat if youve caught it..And as mentioned by paul(old etonian) salmon anglers think its ok to kill barbel and any other course fish that they catch not to eat though just kill for the sake of it because they see course fish as pests...Call yourselves conservationists?..my arse....:D:D
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If you are foolish enough to believe that I am really an Old Etonian, then I fear not only for you but also for Angling and for Britain.
 
So your a liar aswell then..And what was you said about otters in welsh rivers?..Its a well known fact that welsh river managers do indeed cull the otters and also course fish...And how can you compare salmon to barbel?..Salmon come out of the sea to mate and spawn and then most of them die..But i do agree with you regarding letting our rivers be how they used to be many years ago..ie..otter hunting to keep their numbers down..:D:D:D:D
 
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