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Otters

Steve, the usual source of such figure is Natural England.

Ray, that was a fair answer but can you honestly see anyone involved in the re-introduction of otters ever holding their hands up and saying we f***** up, me I can't and as for ever getting licences to kill otters, seeing as shooting foxes is so shunned upon these days, the only answer I can think of is; Not in my life time!

Howard, never fear the EA has everyones best interests at heart. Here's a extract from the EA's website;
What we do
We identify and protect otter habitats.

We improve water quality.

We improve fisheries.

We have introduced byelaws so that eel nets are fitted with otter guards and crayfish traps are narrowed to prevent accidental drowning of otters.

We help prevent otters being killed on roads by digging tunnels at roadkill blackspots and installing fencing to guide otters to safe passage points.

We are the lead partner for otters with UK Wildlife Trusts.

We fund Water for Wildlife projects which safeguard otter habitats.

We chair the National Otter Steering Group which oversees the implementation for the Species Action Plan for otters.


The underlined statements are particularly laughable, EA + NE make very good bed mates, both very adept at filling their websites with drivel and one sided (their side's) half truth about all their succeses:(.
 
Quote: “Cleaner rivers and reduced use of pesticides mean there are now otters in more than 100 towns and cities, including London. They can be seen on the Tyne in the centre of Newcastle, and, says the Northumberland Wildlife Trust's Kevin O'Hara, are increasingly sighted in suburban gardens, living for days under sheds and feeding on fish from garden ponds. One fan regularly buys goldfish from her pet shop to supply "her" otters with their daily catch.â€
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...e-foxes-lairs-in-the-urban-jungle-545884.html

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-421306.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wi...d-squirrels-in-Britains-towns-and-cities.html
 
Howard,

can you point me in the direction of some of the on line stuff (to save me having to trawl the www).

I'm looking for 'national' figures ideally.

Steve. Sorry had to trawl the net to find,and only now have the bedfordshire
info. Got that by phoning the EA,they wernt keen to suppy,any info,but i was insistant,so received the documents following my third phone call.

All the best Howard
 
It's all untrue

It must be, the EA and NE say so!!!

Media coverage of otters and fish predation – briefing notes:

Recent coverage of problems to fisheries caused by otters has suggested that a long-term programme of re-introduction has led directly to the return of the otter to many of England’s waterways. This is untrue.

Until the 1960s, the otter was widespread and common throughout England. The introduction of certain organochlorine pesticides in the late 1950s led to a massive population decline and loss of range, until these pesticides were eventually banned. We had basically poisoned our rivers, contaminating our fish in the process. At that time, it was feared we might lose the otter completely from England and a reintroduction programme was started by the Otter Trust to try and prevent this.

117 otters were released by the Otter Trust between 1983 and 1999 (an average of 7 a year). The Vincent Wildlife Trust also released a small number of rehabilitated animals (mainly orphaned cubs) between 1990 and 1996, predominantly in Yorkshire. Throughout this time, and free from the effects of pesticides, the surviving otter populations in western England, and Wales began their natural recovery and spread eastwards. Scotland remained a stronghold and populations in the north of England also began to recover.

The modest reintroduction programme soon became less significant as the natural recovery of the otter population gained momentum.

The great majority of otters in England now are natural re-colonists, not the descendants of released animals. There have been no releases of captive-bred animals for over 10 years.

In areas where otters have always been present, there are few concerns expressed about their impacts on fisheries since they have been present in the company of healthy and balanced fisheries for a very long time. to otters...and that was AFTER installing electric otter-proof fencing)The conflicts we are seeing now arise from their return to areas where they have been absent for several decades and are largely related to their impact on specimen fish. Natural England and the Environment Agency are sympathetic to the frustrations of anglers affected by otter predation, but we need to understand that the absence of the otter has been an unnatural historical phenomenon caused very largely by unacceptably high levels of pollution.

The recovery of the otter will not mean the end of angling. Otters and anglers have always coexisted in Scotland, Wales and the West Country, and the recovery of otters in the east of England is a welcome sign that the health of the water environment is improving to the benefit of all. The angling community can take their share of the credit for the conservation work that has helped this turnaround and it is through constructive engagement of this sort that we can start to address the specific problems caused by the return of a native species that was nearly wiped out only four decades ago.

Information on otters and their legal status can be found on the Natural England website (www.naturalengland.org.uk). Information on otter fencing can be found on the Environment Agency (www.environment-agency.gov.uk).



Mat Crocker,
Head of Fisheries, Environment Agency

Tom Tew,
Chief Scientist, Natural England


The AT's Predator Group will soon be issuing DNA swab kits so that it can be proved without doubt that any dead or badly damaged fish is the result of otter predation, or not.
 
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The Chairman on Wednesday


Yet I can't help coming in now and stating that our own waters improved vastly once we got rid of all of these -

pike.jpg



As ever,

B.B. ("The Beauchamps - Helping Ourselves since 1066")
 
Colin

Shooting foxes shunned upon? Can't agree with you there, they are shot in their thousands in the countryside and nobody bats an eyelid. I agree that chasing them with horses has a bad press but shooting them has always been seen as a legitimate way of controlling them.

I would like to see a few more wildlife programs like that treacly river thingy that was on the other day. Showing them as veracious predators chomping every fur/feathered/scaled food item they come across will strengthen our cause.

Foxes, stoats and mink are all 'controlled' by trapping or shooting, why should the otter be treated differently?
 
Dave Burr said:
Colin

Shooting foxes shunned upon? Can't agree with you there, they are shot in their thousands in the countryside and nobody bats an eyelid. I agree that chasing them with horses has a bad press but shooting them has always been seen as a legitimate way of controlling them.

I would like to see a few more wildlife programs like that treacly river thingy that was on the other day. Showing them as veracious predators chomping every fur/feathered/scaled food item they come across will strengthen our cause.

Foxes, stoats and mink are all 'controlled' by trapping or shooting, why should the otter be treated differently?
Click to expand...

Great quote Dave and a solution too...
 
Dave Burr said:
I would like to see a few more wildlife programs like that treacly river thingy that was on the other day. Showing them as veracious predators chomping every fur/feathered/scaled food item they come across will strengthen our cause.
Click to expand...

Virtually no one outside of anglers will give a damn about them eating fish. It's other cutesy animals/birds (water voles, ducklings etc) that they need to be seen to be chomping on. The mink chomping on kingfisher as shown on the TV programme last week would be PR gold for us had it been an otter. As it stands, in the eyes of many, mink are bad, otters are cute. The only difference I see is that otters have better PR.
 
Unbeatable PR, plus the fact (from D.B.) that they're "veracious" -



Main Entry: ve·ra·cious
Pronunciation: \və-ˈrā-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin verac-, verax — "truth"
Date: circa 1677

1 : truthful, honest
2 : marked by truth : accurate
 
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Dave Burr said:
Colin

Shooting foxes shunned upon? Can't agree with you there, they are shot in their thousands in the countryside and nobody bats an eyelid. I agree that chasing them with horses has a bad press but shooting them has always been seen as a legitimate way of controlling them.

I would like to see a few more wildlife programs like that treacly river thingy that was on the other day. Showing them as veracious predators chomping every fur/feathered/scaled food item they come across will strengthen our cause.

Foxes, stoats and mink are all 'controlled' by trapping or shooting, why should the otter be treated differently?
Click to expand...

Dave, there certainly was a backlash on me and the farm that I managed 7 years back, when yours truly appeared on South Today (regional news) blowing some fox's head off with a 12 bore, should add the fox was a former resident of a fox sanctuary, re-released 1/2 mile from a free range pig farm, fair game IMO.

You asked why otters should be treated any differently to other predator species, well they shouldn't be BUT they are and rightly or wrongly they most probably will remain so!!

Why, simple they're cute, cuddly adorable little fur balls ain't they.... Well they're perceived as so!
Fish, well TBH they have no more interest to Joe average public than a newt or frog.
As for showing otters predating water fowl etc, easy answer, ah well nature is a cruel thing.

If you think it'll lead to a call in reduction in otter numbers, I very much doubt that!

In all honesty as long the EA can use the otters as a way of claiming that they are doing such a wonderful job of looking after our rivers, no admission of the increase in their numbers being either badly handled or even a ill-advised decsion will ever be made.
As for NE saying they've made a balls up of over inflating the otter population, no bloody chance its the jewel in their crown.
 
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Paul Boote said:
The Chairman on Wednesday


Yet I can't help coming in now and stating that our own waters improved vastly once we got rid of all of these -

pike.jpg



As ever,

B.B. ("The Beauchamps - Helping Ourselves since 1066")
Click to expand...

disgruntled fluff chuckers united, kill em!!!:D:D:D:eek:
 
Just going to have to face it Gentlemen, there's no way a CITES A species is going to be allowed to be "culled" or "controlled" legally for many, many decades, not even the Tories could swing that one ;); and to attempt to take the otter in isolation as an aquatic environment "pest" without factoring in all the other problems as well (cormorants, water quality, pollution, abstraction, destruction of spawning grounds etc etc) is a lost cause.

Eventually the otter population will crash (if the fish stocks reach "critical minimum"), along with the other piscivorous predators, then things will begin to work their way back to a balance, assuming all the other factors are rectified, too.

But not in our lifetimes, I suspect.

Perhaps after the next Ice Age?
 
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