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otters

Mike Webb said:
Otters are back in many rivers. Their numbers will stabilise and, in the process, many anglers will get upset about fish numbers thinning out. In many rivers we will never see the monster fish that existed in the days when huge amounts of artificial feed was introduced by anglers into an ecosystem where no apex predator existed. Tough - this was not a natural ecosystem.
Let's just hope that anglers learn to see past their narrow self-interest and see the bigger picture. The otter belongs in rivers more than a weird species like us, that likes to hunt for fish that they don't even eat - that throw them back for otters to eat. Don't blame the otters and don't blame those that put them back.
I love angling but I like to try to retain a sense of perspective.

cheers
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Not too sure about your sense of perspective Mike. Why do people assume we have no rights to be on a river? Are we not indigenous to the planet?
Maybe we don't have the right to interfere to our advantage with the rivers eco system but is that not exactly what some otter reintroductions have done? All this self loathing by some anglers for daring to try to improve their fishing is ridiculous. And yes Mike, a lot of the people who put otters back without doing their homework first are to blame, no question. Because they are guilty of looking no further than their narrow self interest too so why shouldn't they share the blame?
 
Yes Mike, otters do belong in rivers, but so do eels, their main food item up until thirty plus years ago. So who's going to rear and reintroduce them back into our rivers and lakes, so as to take the pressure off the normally healthy varied fish, fowl and smaller mammal populations?
 
You guys are missing the point here, otters per se are not the problem.
As uncomfortable as it is to accept, the problem is humans; there are just too many of us.
In my lifetime the population of the United Kingdom has gone from around 52,000,000 to around 62,000,000, that's an increase of a little under 20% and it's happening worldwide. this growth rate is unsustainable and is putting a huge pressure on our resources of which water is one....Everything else is incidental to this population explosion and unless something is done to control it we as a species are destined for extinction and the otters will have their environment back.
We can tinker with the peripherals as much as we like but until that fact is addressed and population growth is frozen and finally reversed all we are really doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
In the meantime you may as well enjoy the odd glimpse of the furry assassin.

Chris,

Have you thought of painting them, your sketch of the one with a big satisfied grin on it's face cuddling a big chub (or was it a roach) on the frontispiece of John Baileys 'In Visible Waters' was a bit prophetic, would it be quite so Beatrix Potter were you to draw it today?
 
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Adrian Williams said:
You guys are missing the point here, otters per se are not the problem.
As uncomfortable as it is to accept, the problem is humans; there are just too many of us.
In my lifetime the population of the United Kingdom has gone from around 52,000,000 to around 62,000,000, that's an increase of a little under 20% and it's happening worldwide. this growth rate is unsustainable and is putting a huge pressure on our resources of which water is one....Everything else is incidental to this population explosion and unless something is done to control it we as a species are destined for extinction and the otters will have their environment back.
We can tinker with the peripherals as much as we like but until that fact is addressed and population growth is frozen and finally reversed all we are really doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
In the meantime you may as well enjoy the odd glimpse of the furry assassin.

Chris,

Have you thought of painting them, your sketch of the one with a big satisfied grin on it's face cuddling a big chub (or was it a roach) on the frontispiece of John Baileys 'In Visible Waters' was a bit prophetic, would it be quite so Beatrix Potter were you to draw it today?
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Merely pointing out that Otter trusts are not totally blame free doesn't necessarily mean we are missing the point Adrian. While exercising some research and control of otter release should be well within the scope of those doing it, human population control probably isn't! Just because we have no personal or direct power to influence such a literally world wide issue doesn't mean to say we can't try to address smaller issues albeit probably temporarily.
 
williamcarruthersallenpipersmall.jpg
 
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Adrian Williams said:
You guys are missing the point here, otters per se are not the problem.
As uncomfortable as it is to accept, the problem is humans; there are just too many of us.
In my lifetime the population of the United Kingdom has gone from around 52,000,000 to around 62,000,000, that's an increase of a little under 20% and it's happening worldwide. this growth rate is unsustainable and is putting a huge pressure on our resources of which water is one....Everything else is incidental to this population explosion and unless something is done to control it we as a species are destined for extinction and the otters will have their environment back.
We can tinker with the peripherals as much as we like but until that fact is addressed and population growth is frozen and finally reversed all we are really doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
In the meantime you may as well enjoy the odd glimpse of the furry assassin.

Chris,

Have you thought of painting them, your sketch of the one with a big satisfied grin on it's face cuddling a big chub (or was it a roach) on the frontispiece of John Baileys 'In Visible Waters' was a bit prophetic, would it be quite so Beatrix Potter were you to draw it today?
Click to expand...

Adrian,

were I to draw it today I would have given the otter goats horns and a serpents tail and the roach would have been giving it a kung foo kick in the cods!
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Adrian,

were I to draw it today I would have given the otter goats horns and a serpents tail and the roach would have been giving it a kung foo kick in the cods!
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:D

Alex Gowney said:
Merely pointing out that Otter trusts are not totally blame free doesn't necessarily mean we are missing the point Adrian. .
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No but a lot of you have clearly missed the point that we are not talking about a river where otters have been re-introduced, we are talking about a river with a natural population.
 
natural population?

how do we no that more have not been introduced with the numbers that have been seen over the last few years ,in my opinion they have been introduced as to give the genes a boost, and only two years ago there were a family of otters that appeared on the irwell ,and for there well being were removed else where as there was not a good enough food source for them ,it took them a while to capture them ,now thats artificial as they wouldnt of survived there!
 
How do we know? Because if you introduce an otter into an established teritory of another otter it will be either chased off or killed.
 
out of balance?

established,but there used to be plenty of river without them not anymore ,but theres one dying breed otter hounds!:eek:
 
What experience do you have of Ribble otters Jon?

For the last time - no otters have been released on the Ribble.

My last post on this thread.
 
Err non at at all Andrew, but they are everywhere. I have now thrown all my toys out of my massive Pram and that is my penultimate post on this Otterly unbelievable thread.
 
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Andrew Boyne said:
:D



No but a lot of you have clearly missed the point that we are not talking about a river where otters have been re-introduced, we are talking about a river with a natural population.
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If you wish to discuss missing or getting any points Andrew, does a river with a natural population of otters have a direct link to the world population? Where do you stop at whether we've got "the point" or not?
 
Adrian Williams said:
You guys are missing the point here, otters per se are not the problem.
As uncomfortable as it is to accept, the problem is humans; there are just too many of us.
In my lifetime the population of the United Kingdom has gone from around 52,000,000 to around 62,000,000, that's an increase of a little under 20% and it's happening worldwide. this growth rate is unsustainable and is putting a huge pressure on our resources of which water is one....Everything else is incidental to this population explosion and unless something is done to control it we as a species are destined for extinction and the otters will have their environment back.
We can tinker with the peripherals as much as we like but until that fact is addressed and population growth is frozen and finally reversed all we are really doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
In the meantime you may as well enjoy the odd glimpse of the furry assassin.

Chris,

Have you thought of painting them, your sketch of the one with a big satisfied grin on it's face cuddling a big chub (or was it a roach) on the frontispiece of John Baileys 'In Visible Waters' was a bit prophetic, would it be quite so Beatrix Potter were you to draw it today?
Click to expand...

Spot on imo
 
There's an interesting albeit rather out of date on-line article here by Pete Reading on fluctuating barbel populations. He speaks a lot of sense that I wholeheartedly agree with, though I feel the article rather underestimates the impact of predation by otters. Certainly were he to visit the Wensum again today, he would see a very different situation.
Coarse Angler Online 2
 
If this has been posted earlier in the thread (which I haven't read all the way through) I apologise.

At a recent North Yorkshire Fisheries Forum the following question was raised and responded to by the EA:

Q. Does the EA have contingency plans for replenishing fish stocks on rivers affected by otter predation?

A. In time, otters and fish will achieve a natural balance, based upon food and habitat availability. Exclusion fencing of rivers is impractical and to stock rivers would only increase the otter population.

N.B. This is quoted directly from the 'Notes From Meeting' sent out to attendees by the EA.

So chaps, for an increasing number of rivers (you guys in the NW are next) the chances of catching barbel are decreasing on a daily basis. It is unlikely that things will get better in our lifetime, so enjoy what you've got while you can.
 
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