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otters

The re-introduction of otters, with their main food item off the 'specials board', was always going to be a 'recipe' for disaster. So short sighted.
 
Chris Guy said:
The re-introduction of otters, with their main food item off the 'specials board', was always going to be a 'recipe' for disaster. So short sighted.
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I doubt very much that eels were ever the staple diet of otters although this was put about by various otter experts. I well remember being told the very same thing in meetings with the EA and Wildlife Trusts, however, in retrospect I suspect it was a fib put about to avoid spooking the angling fraternity about the consequences of otter reintroductions. Some years later, however, after the eels had met their demise, I was told by the experts that otters were opportunists that will eat whatever is at hand.
 
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I see/understand that otters generally hunt close or on the river/lake bed. Thus as they are predominantly nocturnal hunters and eels share similar traits, the two seem made for each other. But as eels are pretty rare these days, the natural progression for otters would be to go for what else is close or near to the river/lake bed............... carp and barbel? When I used to fish on the Bristol Avon, 1977/1984, the bottom of the river would become alive with eels after dark, (I know this was also true of the Hants Avon, Stour, Warks Avon, Thames, Wye, as I used to fish these rivers also) so if otters had been around then, the eel would've been very easy prey, as I'm sure it was for them in the decades previous to the otter's decline.
I know otters are opportunists, but they will eat/prey upon whatever is easiest to grab hold of and eels must've, once upon a time, been easy peasy prey.
 
Chris Guy said:
I see/understand that otters generally hunt close or on the river/lake bed. Thus as they are predominantly nocturnal hunters and eels share similar traits, the two seem made for each other. But as eels are pretty rare these days, the natural progression for otters would be to go for what else is close or near to the river/lake bed............... carp and barbel? When I used to fish on the Bristol Avon, 1977/1984, the bottom of the river would become alive with eels after dark, (I know this was also true of the Hants Avon, Stour, Warks Avon, Thames, Wye, as I used to fish these rivers also) so if otters had been around then, the eel would've been very easy prey, as I'm sure it was for them in the decades previous to the otter's decline.
I know otters are opportunists, but they will eat/prey upon whatever is easiest to grab hold of and eels must've, once upon a time, been easy peasy prey.
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Sums it up I think Chirs.The vast majority of wild creatures will eat what is available, most of their existence concerns sourcing food and it is highly unlikely they have the luxury of being choosy. Eels were the most abundant and so were regarded as their staple diet but in their absence anything will do!
 
Alex Gowney said:
Sums it up I think Chirs.The vast majority of wild creatures will eat what is available, most of their existence concerns sourcing food and it is highly unlikely they have the luxury of being choosy. Eels were the most abundant and so were regarded as their staple diet but in their absence anything will do!
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Spot on.... and in many rivers surveys used to show eels as being a huge proportion of the total biomass of fish. Obviously whatever is most readily available is what they eat the most of. Nowadays I bet this mostly consists of signal crayfish in many rivers.
 
"Nowadays I bet this mostly consists of signal crayfish in many rivers." Cos most of the decent size fish have already been chomped in my local rivers and they are positively swarming with the crusty buggers. Another reason for the declining rivers I know.

Seriously though otters have been recorded recently taking bitterns from the fens, they've had swan signets local to me, as well as the odd duck and coot, and many eggs of wild fowl earlier on in the year. (they don't run away, as of yet I've never seen an egg on legs)

And I don't recall headlines/pictures in the angling press in the sixties, or whenever, of massacred barbel, pike, chub and carp, left high and dry on our local river and lake banks, with their gills and guts ripped out. Did we not care then, was it all just taken for granted?
 
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Great thread :)

and some really good coments. I do think if the otter population is increased and introduced to other rivers then we will be looking for another hobby :(

regards
 
John Young said:
Great thread :)

and some really good coments. I do think if the otter population is increased and introduced to other rivers then we will be looking for another hobby :(

regards
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Why would you think that? Are you thinking that the Otter would eat all the fish?
Besides the if Otter was just being released in on area, it would spread throughout the country in time. So why would the Otter spread? The fact that it would only inhabit an waterway that could sustain itself and it's offspring I believe, and of course it would not be in the Otters interest to eat the 'larder' bare...would it?
The Otter is here to stay for the umpteenth time, and nothing you I the Angling Trust ...anyone can do about it, so perhaps to sweeten the pill try applauding that the Otter is a success story in it's come back.
The Otter is as integral as the Barn Owl, Perigrine, Roach, Pike, Water Vole and so on, and guess what?... all eat other species, but left to their own devices will survive It is man's interventions that damage their survival.
As it was with the Otter, so the Otter deserves to survive, and survive it will, good for the Otter I say.
 
Alex Gowney said:
Sums it up I think Chirs.The vast majority of wild creatures will eat what is available, most of their existence concerns sourcing food and it is highly unlikely they have the luxury of being choosy. Eels were the most abundant and so were regarded as their staple diet but in their absence anything will do!
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It has been stated that the Eels was supposed to be the food of preference for Otter was simply never the case, Otter have a catholic choice of food and really are opportunists, and this was unveiled to the Barbel on the Ouse where such a event was well recorded and such the Otters reputation was probably set amongst many anglers.
However consider this!! the Otter can benefit the Barbel population/quality of species in that only the fittest will survive, that is the crux of improving DNA, cam you say that those Ouse fish would have quality DNA?
 
Neil,
I have said why I dont like them but please be my guest and chase my posts around and keep quoting my posts if it makes you feel better :rolleyes:
I dont like otters :D
 
John Young said:
Neil,
I have said why I dont like them but please be my guest and chase my posts around and keep quoting my posts if it makes you feel better :rolleyes:
I dont like otters :D
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You don't like Otters? But they are up there with Panda's in the cute league, what's there not to like?
That aside I repeat what I stated that Otter predation can improve the quality of Rivers as nature has determined that only the fit survive, I would liked to have you counter that, or perhaps you might have been persuaded?
As far as me chasing your posts around I am not, but this is a forum and if you put up something that I don't agree with then forgive me if I challenge it..

It's a Forum.:rolleyes:
 
Hi Neil
I will pm you when i next post just incase you miss it :rolleyes:
its a forum:D correct 10/10
 
Chris Guy said:
I see/understand that otters generally hunt close or on the river/lake bed. Thus as they are predominantly nocturnal hunters and eels share similar traits, the two seem made for each other. But as eels are pretty rare these days, the natural progression for otters would be to go for what else is close or near to the river/lake bed............... carp and barbel? When I used to fish on the Bristol Avon, 1977/1984, the bottom of the river would become alive with eels after dark, (I know this was also true of the Hants Avon, Stour, Warks Avon, Thames, Wye, as I used to fish these rivers also) so if otters had been around then, the eel would've been very easy prey, as I'm sure it was for them in the decades previous to the otter's decline.
I know otters are opportunists, but they will eat/prey upon whatever is easiest to grab hold of and eels must've, once upon a time, been easy peasy prey.
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Well I am not so sure Chris, so pollutants had nothing to do with the Otter decline? Perhaps the pollutants put paid to the Eel also, either way we as anglers cannot decide the fate of the Otter merely through selfish motives it is a futile and I believe misinformed stance anyway. Are we to be spoken of in the same breath as those who kill Falcons to protect their reared birds for the Shooters?
What is the difference?
 
Hi Neil
I dont know who you think you are but I can assure you I am not after your respect. ;)
 
LOL try again we are quite well paid :D
 
Alex Gowney said:
Not too sure about your sense of perspective Mike. Why do people assume we have no rights to be on a river? Are we not indigenous to the planet?
Maybe we don't have the right to interfere to our advantage with the rivers eco system but is that not exactly what some otter reintroductions have done? All this self loathing by some anglers for daring to try to improve their fishing is ridiculous. And yes Mike, a lot of the people who put otters back without doing their homework first are to blame, no question. Because they are guilty of looking no further than their narrow self interest too so why shouldn't they share the blame?
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Where did I say that we had no right to be on a river? Putting otters in rivers that previously held a population is not interfering with an ecosystem, in my view. Also, I don't loathe myself, but neither do I happen to see things in black and white like many anglers do. Anglers good, conservationists bad.

cheers
 
Chris Guy said:
Yes Mike, otters do belong in rivers, but so do eels, their main food item up until thirty plus years ago. So who's going to rear and reintroduce them back into our rivers and lakes, so as to take the pressure off the normally healthy varied fish, fowl and smaller mammal populations?
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Hi Chris, the glass eel shortage is now thought to be down to drainage systems and flood prevention measures, which are stopping the baby eels from getting into the ditches and ponds near to the major rivers. Otters don't eat the tiny eels, 95% of which never make it to maturity. The answer is to allow controlled flooding to coincide with certain high spring tides, when baby eel numbers are known to be high. According to Open Country the other day (link below), there has been no decline in mature eel populations, so I'm not sure whether it is possible to blame otters for eating other stuff, unless you can point me towards any decent research.

link

cheers
 
John Young said:
Neil,
I have said why I dont like them but please be my guest and chase my posts around and keep quoting my posts if it makes you feel better :rolleyes:
I dont like otters :D
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OMG, Im in deep shock.

A Townie who doesnt like Otters. That has to be a first:p
 
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