More questions than really necessary??

[Neil Smart]

Thank heaven car manufacturers don't have to re-invent the wheel every time they design a car, 'cos cars wouldn't half be expensive then, wouldn't they

In other words, if everyone who started out in fishing had to 'do it for themselves' rather than risk upsetting some folks by asking for help on forums such as this one (a community of like minded people helping each other ), then a whole lot of research would get repeated over and over again...and a whole lot of time and money would be wasted....and a whole lot of people who were not blessed with the type of mind to enable them to 'do it for themselves' would simply give up angling....while a whole lot of knowledgeable guys who would have been only too happy to help would be left asking themselves 'I wonder why they didn't just ask?'


Well actually I do offer help, and also not too proud to ask for it, and I agree that this is one place it all comes to-gether. My comments were directed to experienced anglers that is the norm on here, those that know one end of a rod from another but still need every last scrap of information as to tactics and even the best swims, let alone what flavoured boilies to take with them etc etc.That was the gist of what was Paul was saying, and I agree with that, nothing to do with not helping newbies to our sport.

Perhaps it's the way that society is, believe me there are a lot of youngsters that can't wire a plug or operate a washing machine Why because someone else always has done it for them..Get my point?
QUOTE]

 

[Paul Thomas]

Mike,

Really appreciate you amending your thread. Thanks for the PM and....reply inbound



Paul

 

[John Walker]

Paul T, i haven,t aimed anything at your 1st post or any other mate, just
trying to explain how i see things.

 

[Paul Thomas]

No problem....



Keep smiling


Paul

 

[David Gauntlett]

Well actually I do offer help, and also not too proud to ask for it, and I agree that this is one place it all comes to-gether. My comments were directed to experienced anglers that is the norm on here, those that know one end of a rod from another but still need every last scrap of information as to tactics and even the best swims, let alone what flavoured boilies to take with them etc etc.That was the gist of what was Paul was saying, and I agree with that, nothing to do with not helping newbies to our sport.

Perhaps it's the way that society is, believe me there are a lot of youngsters that can't wire a plug or operate a washing machine Why because someone else always has done it for them..Get my point?
QUOTE]

Yes Neil, I do get your point, but unfortunately you still do not yet get my point.

I am a what you may call an 'experienced' angler, and yet I recently started a 'What' type thread about a particular rod. I did so because there a several models of this rod (which has attained minor cult status) frequently available on fleabay, and some versions of the rod are more highly rated than others. I quite naturally wanted to tap the knowledge of the guys with personal experience of this rod, to ensure that I bought the best I could for my severely limited buck.

Does this make me 'lazy', or 'lacking in pioneer spirit', or 'unable to wire a plug'...or any of the other blinkered and patronising labels it seems one can attract for starting such a thread?.....I think not But then, that is only my opinion, and you are just as entitled to yours

Taste the wine along the way, and all that stuff

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Neil Smart]

Well actually I do offer help, and also not too proud to ask for it, and I agree that this is one place it all comes to-gether. My comments were directed to experienced anglers that is the norm on here, those that know one end of a rod from another but still need every last scrap of information as to tactics and even the best swims, let alone what flavoured boilies to take with them etc etc.That was the gist of what was Paul was saying, and I agree with that, nothing to do with not helping newbies to our sport.

Perhaps it's the way that society is, believe me there are a lot of youngsters that can't wire a plug or operate a washing machine Why because someone else always has done it for them..Get my point?
QUOTE]

Yes Neil, I do get your point, but unfortunately you still do not yet get my point.


I am a what you may call an 'experienced' angler, and yet I recently started a 'What' type thread about a particular rod. I did so because there a several models of this rod (which has attained minor cult status) frequently available on fleabay, and some versions of the rod are more highly rated than others. I quite naturally wanted to tap the knowledge of the guys with personal experience of this rod, to ensure that I bought the best I could for my severely limited buck.

Does this make me 'lazy', or 'lacking in pioneer spirit', or 'unable to wire a plug'...or any of the other blinkered and patronising labels it seems one can attract for starting such a thread?.....I think not But then, that is only my opinion, and you are just as entitled to yours

Taste the wine along the way, and all that stuff

Cheers, Dave.

You talk of rods having ''cult'' status, well need I say more Just go fishing with what ever you have don't worry too much nobody really care what label you have on your designer kit.

 

[Chris Jones]

You talk of rods having ''cult'' status, well need I say more Just go fishing with what ever you have don't worry too much nobody really care what label you have on your designer kit.

IIRC David was asking which mark of the Drennan Tench float rods people considered the best. Hardly "designer kit" and a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Nigh on impossible to try all four different rods without spending inordinate amounts of cash to find out, if you can even find them at all.

I really don't see the fuss.

 

[David Gauntlett]

You talk of rods having ''cult'' status, well need I say more Just go fishing with what ever you have don't worry too much nobody really care what label you have on your designer kit.

Neil...just read what Chris Jones said in the post above, and then take a minute to consider whether your rather childish response was really worthy

The Drennan Tench Float rod has gained status because it is a fine, extremely effective rod at a very decent price, especially if you can find one of the older versions on a site like Ebay. Unfortunately, some are considered WAY more effective as a barbel trotting rod than others. Is it REALLY so strange of me to wish to find out which ones would be more suitable for my needs

'Labels'.....'designer kit'....I think not old chap! Best tools for the job. at a price that fits my budget would be a far more apt description.

Take it easy fella

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Graham Elliott]

Neil. Don't be a Smartrrrs

Graham

 

[Neil Smart]

Neil...just read what Chris Jones said in the post above, and then take a minute to consider whether your rather childish response was really worthy

The Drennan Tench Float rod has gained status because it is a fine, extremely effective rod at a very decent price, especially if you can find one of the older versions on a site like Ebay. Unfortunately, some are considered WAY more effective as a barbel trotting rod than others. Is it REALLY so strange of me to wish to find out which ones would be more suitable for my needs

'Labels'.....'designer kit'....I think not old chap! Best tools for the job. at a price that fits my budget would be a far more apt description.

Take it easy fella

Cheers, Dave.

Look I appreciate advice on any tackle that has been road tested, and of course that influences what I purchase, however the Cult status tag that you talk of regarding tackle is laughable. I am relieved that you talk of the Drennan rod as gaining status.. not a cult following...Good Lad.
However my general point was one of that some get a little bit too self concious of their image with regard to tackle and would perhaps but style over substance.
There is a guy on another angling site who tests budget tackle, we are talking of rods with a price tag of £20 or less and reels around the £10 mark. It might make uneasy reading be he found that some of this tackle was as good as if not better the tackle four times the price. But because it does not have the 'right' branding it would not appeal to many of us on here I suspect.

Oh yes and an aborted session on the Severn yesterday eveining saw me admiring two Grauvell 1.75 Barbel Rods that were attached to large meat and a fellow angler. I have never seen such slim blanks and was very impressed, and I have done my research as much as I can, any they seem to be well received.The good thing he picked them up as a pair for £100, you see, I do like to share. Not at all childish

 

[Neil Smart]

Neil. Don't be a Smartrrrs

Graham

Sure beats being a slapper

 

[Alex Gowney]

Look I appreciate advice on any tackle that has been road tested, and of course that influences what I purchase, however the Cult status tag that you talk of regarding tackle is laughable. I am relieved that you talk of the Drennan rod as gaining status.. not a cult following...Good Lad.
However my general point was one of that some get a little bit too self concious of their image with regard to tackle and would perhaps but style over substance.
There is a guy on another angling site who tests budget tackle, we are talking of rods with a price tag of £20 or less and reels around the £10 mark. It might make uneasy reading be he found that some of this tackle was as good as if not better the tackle four times the price. But because it does not have the 'right' branding it would not appeal to many of us on here I suspect.

Oh yes and an aborted session on the Severn yesterday eveining saw me admiring two Grauvell 1.75 Barbel Rods that were attached to large meat and a fellow angler. I have never seen such slim blanks and was very impressed, and I have done my research as much as I can, any they seem to be well received.The good thing he picked them up as a pair for £100, you see, I do like to share. Not at all childish

Interesting point about the budget tackle Neil, I suppose the crunch comes when assessing how long cheaper gear lasts, particularly in the case of reels. Not all the brand names seem to last as long as they should and if really cheap gear performs well for a couple of seasons then I suppose you get your moneys worth. Providing, that is, that the reel doesn't collapse during the playing of a fish!

 

[Neil Smart]

Interesting point about the budget tackle Neil, I suppose the crunch comes when assessing how long cheaper gear lasts, particularly in the case of reels. Not all the brand names seem to last as long as they should and if really cheap gear performs well for a couple of seasons then I suppose you get your moneys worth. Providing, that is, that the reel doesn't collapse during the playing of a fish!

Reels are one bit of tackle I wouldn't want to compromise, but a lot of the cheaper rod blanks are made in China, and probably sourced from the same manufacturer. Given the variables such as guides and reel seats I bet a lot of those cheaper blanks can be found on the more expensive makes.

 

[Chris Jones]

Reels are one bit of tackle I wouldn't want to compromise, but a lot of the cheaper rod blanks are made in China, and probably sourced from the same manufacturer. Given the variables such as guides and reel seats I bet a lot of those cheaper blanks can be found on the more expensive makes.

It's true enough. Exactly why I'd tend to favour UK made Daiwa rods or rods made with Harrison blanks. I'll also buy Greys stuff despite it being made in China. I've been led to believe, by someone that should know, that they moved their own equipment to China and set up their own factory.
However, little birds tell me that there aren't actually that many reel factories in the world and some of the major players have budget brands coming out of the same factories. That's the way of the world these days. Exactly the same scenario occurs when it comes to Chinese telescopic sights for the shooters amongst us.

 

[David Gauntlett]

It's true enough. Exactly why I'd tend to favour UK made Daiwa rods or rods made with Harrison blanks. I'll also buy Greys stuff despite it being made in China. I've been led to believe, by someone that should know, that they moved their own equipment to China and set up their own factory.
However, little birds tell me that there aren't actually that many reel factories in the world and some of the major players have budget brands coming out of the same factories. That's the way of the world these days. Exactly the same scenario occurs when it comes to Chinese telescopic sights for the shooters amongst us.

Hi Chris,

Now the sad thing about all this is that the rods I use for my lead and light feeder fishing (which is ALL I do at the moment, untill I aquire a decent trotting rod ) are a pair I bought nearly 30 years ago, because they still work and that suited my finances rather well. I did buy two new reels, but again they had to fit my budget, so I did my research and went for Okumas (I assume that my info that Okuma were the actual manufacturers of other 'Big' name reels, and so were as good, was similar to what you had heard?)

Sadly, my experience of these Okuma 'Interceptor Pro 340' reels has not been as happy as that of Rob Alexander who reviewed them on this forum some years ago. I have found that the line lay is appalling (the line falls off the back of the spool (the end nearest to the stem) while the build up is still 2 or 3mm short of the front lip, which obviously impedes casting )...and the bait runner drag works only when/if it wants to. The thing is, these issues have come to light in just 4 trips...what other pleasures await, I wonder

So...hardly 'designer label' stuff, just gear that has been recommended, and fits my finances...although I did get unlucky with the reels. My point being that it might pay others to seek further advice before buying...things may well have changed since the earlier reviews

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Chris Jones]

I assume that my info that Okuma were the actual manufacturers of other 'Big' name reels, and so were as good, was similar to what you had heard?

Sadly, my little bird didn't go as far as naming specific brands.
If it's anything like the Chinese sports optics industry, pretty much anyone with enough cash can specify quality depending on the price that they choose to pay. They can take generic stuff and rebrand it, change cosmetics, ask for fairly standard features to be included or ask for specific new ideas (of the customer/brand) to be produced. UK mark up will depend upon the brand name on the side, the unit cost of the specified item and the amount of profit that the brand/distributor etc wish to make. QC and warranty also need to be considered, both will be factored in somewhere down the line. If a company is particularly free and easy when it comes to warranty replacements then it is likely to be for two reasons. First would be that the cost price to them is pretty low relative to the sale price so they can easily afford it, second that they are protecting the brand reputation if they realise that they've released a pup to the market.

Even when two items appear to be identical externally there's no gaurantee that the same quality materials or tolerances will be used externally or internally. The price isn't always a good indication of which will be the higher quality, although you do tend to get what you pay for. The higher the price does tend to lead to diminishing returns. Doubling the retail price is unlikely to give you double the performance.

The best bet is often to buy new brands as they first launch or slightly after to avoid any teething problems. They are usually prepared to make less profit in a bid to get the brand noticed. They also tend to be of higher quality at their price point in an attempt to gain a good reputation. They usually can go one of three ways from this point to improve profit margins, either reduce quality and maintain price point. Maintain quality and increase prices or even increase quality and increase prices quite dramatically. Bigger operations may even do all three over a period of time and a full range.

Whether this applies totally to fishing gear is open to debate but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Look I appreciate advice on any tackle that has been road tested, and of course that influences what I purchase, however the Cult status tag that you talk of regarding tackle is laughable. I am relieved that you talk of the Drennan rod as gaining status.. not a cult following...Good Lad.
However my general point was one of that some get a little bit too self concious of their image with regard to tackle and would perhaps but style over substance.
There is a guy on another angling site who tests budget tackle, we are talking of rods with a price tag of £20 or less and reels around the £10 mark. It might make uneasy reading be he found that some of this tackle was as good as if not better the tackle four times the price. But because it does not have the 'right' branding it would not appeal to many of us on here I suspect.

Oh yes and an aborted session on the Severn yesterday eveining saw me admiring two Grauvell 1.75 Barbel Rods that were attached to large meat and a fellow angler. I have never seen such slim blanks and was very impressed, and I have done my research as much as I can, any they seem to be well received.The good thing he picked them up as a pair for £100, you see, I do like to share. Not at all childish

Neil,

We really don't have a common ground here, do we? Your absurd interpretation of the phrases 'Cult status' or 'Cult following' as meaning something which has a 'Designer lable', is what is causing the friction here. The Drennan rods in question have in fact gained a 'Cult status' because they are superb rods for a relatively modest outlay, and make admirable barbel trotting rods. It does NOT mean that they have a 'Designer label', as you put it....they are Drennan rods, for Gods sake

As you obviously do not understand the terms, I will give you an example to help you. There are many underground films which are described as having 'Cult Status', or have a 'Cult Following'. These films by definition do NOT have a 'Designer lable'...they are often budget films, frequently made by virtually unheard of companies, that have aquired a small but very enthusiastic following...hence the word 'Cult'. They obtain their 'Cult Following and Status' because they are seen as quality without the usual huge expenditure...i.e, precisely because they do NOT have 'Designer labels'....OK?

As I have mentioned on another post, most of my gear is either VERY old, or budget end of the market. Worried about my image? Choosing style over substance? I think not...just sensibly seeking advice to help me find top quality which nonetheless still fits my wallet, usually because it is second hand And I intend to carry on seeking that advice on this forum from people who have experience of the items I am researching, however high you and others may raise your eyebrows about it!

Still, you carry on fella. I concede It would be churlish of me to spoil your fun by rather boringly quoting facts

Cheers, Dave.

 

[John Cook]

I have never seen the rods but i have heard good things about the Grauvell 12ft. 1.75 Barbel Rod £60 and the 11ft. 1.2 tc Specialist Rods..........Just ask Martin James....

 

[Neil Smart]

Neil,

We really don't have a common ground here, do we? Your absurd interpretation of the phrases 'Cult status' or 'Cult following' as meaning something which has a 'Designer lable', is what is causing the friction here. The Drennan rods in question have in fact gained a 'Cult status' because they are superb rods for a relatively modest outlay, and make admirable barbel trotting rods. It does NOT mean that they have a 'Designer label', as you put it....they are Drennan rods, for Gods sake

As you obviously do not understand the terms, I will give you an example to help you. There are many underground films which are described as having 'Cult Status', or have a 'Cult Following'. These films by definition do NOT have a 'Designer lable'...they are often budget films, frequently made by virtually unheard of companies, that have aquired a small but very enthusiastic following...hence the word 'Cult'. They obtain their 'Cult Following and Status' because they are seen as quality without the usual huge expenditure...i.e, precisely because they do NOT have 'Designer labels'....OK?

As I have mentioned on another post, most of my gear is either VERY old, or budget end of the market. Worried about my image? Choosing style over substance? I think not...just sensibly seeking advice to help me find top quality which nonetheless still fits my wallet, usually because it is second hand And I intend to carry on seeking that advice on this forum from people who have experience of the items I am researching, however high you and others may raise your eyebrows about it!

Still, you carry on fella. I concede It would be churlish of me to spoil your fun by rather boringly quoting facts

Cheers, Dave.

Dave
For goodness sake all I was saying it was rather OTT to attach the description as cult to a piece of tackle, the term would be better suited to the guy that would be holding the thing. Thank you for explaining in depth your view on cult however without labouring the point to have a cult following does not have any bearing on value or cost but more often than not does favour the the lower budget type films used in your analogy,true, but not in consumer products I am afraid.
Still let this be the end of it for the sake of everyones sanity and you just enjoy your collection of budget tackle.

 

[Neil Smart]

I have never seen the rods but i have heard good things about the Grauvell 12ft. 1.75 Barbel Rod £60 and the 11ft. 1.2 tc Specialist Rods..........Just ask Martin James....

Great, if thier good enough for him..