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Martin Salter blog

Phil, the report does neither say otters don't eat barbel or they eat exlcusively barbel. The study's purpose was to find out what they ate on the Hampshire Avon, and that it did. It seems thus far to be backed up anecdotally.
The problem as I see it is one of recruitment.
As Howard is at pains to point out, the general attitude of the barbel angler that being, 'where's my bloody big barbel that I love catching', 'and let's ban the otters' aren't going to get you anywhere. Barbel anglers are going to have to change their attitudes towards a more holistic view of the riverine environment and not just moaning and groaning like they do, accept that otters and the influence they have on their fishing are not going to change. If surveys say there is a very low population of fish, then there is a risk to the otters also, consult with bodies and look for a way forward (maybe habitat improvements along with bolstering numbers).
 
Although I haven't ploughed through all the ' evidence ', I don't think there is anyone daft enough to say that Otters don't eat Barbel full stop , of course they do ! An otter will eat anything that comes it's way that's what otters do; roach , perch , trout , bullhead , barbel ,bird , vole they are all fair game to the otter .
I think people are getting upset about the impact otters have on relatively small rivers , this impact can be significant especially if the otter population has been artificially increased by ill thought out introductions .

What can we do about it ? In my view very little , well nothing that is legal. [and before anyone pipes up I am not advocating that we take direct action and kill the otters ourselves , although I am sure this goes on quietly on rivers with a significant population of siver tourists] .I think it is right that we should share our concerns with the RSPB , Natural England etc to try and stop any further otter introductions beyond that we just have to grin and bear it I 'm afraid .
 
Stopping any further introductions would be a massive step forward, this would allow perhaps a natural balance to occur.
I have personally stated before on here and elsewhere I have no problem with otters as they are not accountable for being introduced 'artificially'
I do have a problem with individuals saying that otters are not responsible for the decimation of some fish stocks on certain rivers. These rivers would include the Dorset Stour which is not a 'small river' and is a shadow of its former self. I have not fished the Stour now for over 3 seasons because of its decline and I am within 10 minutes drive from it.
Damian, very difficult to say that this season has been better than past years. I can probably count on both hands how many barbel I have ever caught from the Avon under 4lb, Royalty being an exception to this. It is a known fact that barbel very seldom show themselves at this size to the normal big bait methods used in modern barbel fishing. Over the last 4 years there has definitely a noted reduction in fish under 7 lbs caught by myself.
The Avon is still 'okay' but many other rivers are certainly not.
 
I have to say I started noticing a reduction of those shoal fish after the floods of '00.
No one is saying they are ok John, but neither should one be saying it is the problem of the otter's making.
How many rivers in the country where anglers might be noticing a reduction in catch rates are the barbel non native?
 
Even more worrying when the source river of many of todays river barbel, the Kennet, is probably suffering more than any.
 
John,... seems they prefer popping just up the road for the all day breakfast rather than target the few fish on my patch!
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...ff_and_customers_by_popping_into_coffee_shop/
I wonder what some would have made of the spraint analysis from that one.:)

I can only imagine we will see more of this and when we do, it may will increase the focus on river health. And perversely where the otter can help us. Images such as this plus more examples of birds being attacked by otters will make people realise that our rivers are broadly incapable of supporting the current otter population who either need to adapt to find new food sources or have to travel and in doing so, come into conflict with man and other otters with inevitable consequences. This could in turn make non-angling groups start to question why our rivers are not producing enough fish. So it might need to get a lot worse before it gets better.
 
The've snacked on many a koi pond.

At least the surrounding gardens will benefit from the carcasses. Minus the liver of course.
 
I can only imagine we will see more of this and when we do, it may will increase the focus on river health. And perversely where the otter can help us. Images such as this plus more examples of birds being attacked by otters will make people realise that our rivers are broadly incapable of supporting the current otter population who either need to adapt to find new food sources or have to travel and in doing so, come into conflict with man and other otters with inevitable consequences. This could in turn make non-angling groups start to question why our rivers are not producing enough fish. So it might need to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Where is the evidence to suggest our rivers are broadly incapable of supporting the current otter population Howard? That's quite a statement.

Yes there appears to be an obvious conflict between barbel in smaller rivers and otters, but that doesn't mean to say that the rivers are incapable of supporting the current otter population. The fact the otter population is what it is currently rather turns that argument on it's head.

We keep hearing from some anglers about the (alleged) impact of otters on other wildlife, notably wildfowl especially coots, moorhens, swans and bitterns. On this forum I've even read claims the otters are responsible for decimating the UK water vole population.

I'm all for angling forging new and powerful alliances with non-angling groups, personally I feel that is the only way that real progress in improving our rivers will ever be made, but in order to for this to happen, and for anglers to be viewed as desirable allies, we really must make much more effort to base our arguments on sound, credible evidence.

If anglers knock-on the door of the likes of the RSPB or the Wildlife Trusts, (I use these two organisations as I know them both well and understand their firm commitment to conservation science and evidence-led policy) and start making claims about the impacts of otters on riparian wildlife, then firstly they need to be credible, and secondly they need to be able to backed up by some empirical data. Pictures of otters attacking wildfowl are unlikely to generate any response other than bemusement, it will simply be viewed as a picture of a generalist predator doing what generalist predators do best and numerous spraint surveys have shown otters predate birds and other wildlife so I'm struggling to see what benefit a few pictures will provide? On the other hand present them with some hard data which suggests otter predation is causing a marked decline on a particular species or community of species at a population level then those anglers will be taken seriously.

The problem with all the anecdotal claims about the impact of otter predation on other wildlife, and I'm not denying that otter predation can have an impact on a short-term local level, is that they rather fly in the face of the plethora of the extensive bird population survey data which is out there. BTO survey data suggests the UK swan population is an high is it has ever been. Moorhen's, whose population tends to fluctuate widely, don't appear to be declining, Coot's are doing rather well, as is the Heron and the UK Bittern population is literally booming. Numerous studies have found habitat degradation and mink to be the key factors behind the decline in the UK water vole population, some research implies water vole predation by mink is greatly reduced when Otters are present.

Unless there is empirical evidence to suggest otters are impacting on other wildlife at a population level then I'd suggest this is an argument that angling should avoid getting into. Best to concentrate on building alliances based on the shared goals of habitat improvement and water quality - that's the way forward imo.
 
That report is probably one of the most worrying things you will ever see,a 'TAME' Otter entering a garden center in the middle of the day.With the legal releases of otters being stopped since the 1990's this should never happen.Will you see a fox,deer or badger entering said premises in the middle of the day,never.Like the one on the Colne recently that walked right up to my mate, i highly suspect people are still releasing them,they are too tame and used to humans.
 
Stopping any further introductions would be a massive step forward, this would allow perhaps a natural balance to occur.
I have personally stated before on here and elsewhere I have no problem with otters as they are not accountable for being introduced 'artificially'
I do have a problem with individuals saying that otters are not responsible for the decimation of some fish stocks on certain rivers. These rivers would include the Dorset Stour which is not a 'small river' and is a shadow of its former self. I have not fished the Stour now for over 3 seasons because of its decline and I am within 10 minutes drive from it.
Damian, very difficult to say that this season has been better than past years. I can probably count on both hands how many barbel I have ever caught from the Avon under 4lb, Royalty being an exception to this. It is a known fact that barbel very seldom show themselves at this size to the normal big bait methods used in modern barbel fishing. Over the last 4 years there has definitely a noted reduction in fish under 7 lbs caught by myself.
The Avon is still 'okay' but many other rivers are certainly not.

Who do you believe is releasing these otters John? It's not being done by any conservation NGO's, or being licenced by NE, so who is doing it?
 
That report is probably one of the most worrying things you will ever see,a 'TAME' Otter entering a garden center in the middle of the day.With the legal releases of otters being stopped since the 1990's this should never happen.Will you see a fox,deer or badger entering said premises in the middle of the day,never.Like the one on the Colne recently that walked right up to my mate, i highly suspect people are still releasing them,they are too tame and used to humans.

I'd be amazed if an otter that tame lived for long or had learnt to hunt effectively. That must be an escapee.
 
All I'm saying Joe is... just cus they didn't find many barbel scales in the spraint it doesn't mean that those very otters hadn't at least killed, if not eaten, barbel.
At very best the finding are indicative ... but by NO means are they definitive. IMHO.

I don't think anybody, possibly other than Martin Salter, has interpreted the findings as being definitive, certainly not the authors of the report.

It's bad blogging, not bad science.
 
I don't think anybody, possibly other than Martin Salter, has interpreted the findings as being definitive, certainly not the authors of the report.

It's bad blogging, not bad science.

Joe-I certainly agree with this statement. The title of the blog (an inconvenient truth) gave the game away rather in terms of how the science was being presented and quite frankly, it's what has hacked a lot of people off. It could have just presented it as interesting insight and used the opportunity to encourage and promote more work of this kind to capture more data and analysis.

The attached report which may have previously been referenced in old threads is very interesting I think and worth a read. It makes reference to the relatively short life span of UK otters compared to their European cousins as well as stillwater fish increasingly featuring in the otters diet perhaps as a result of reduced river health. There is also mention of birds forming part of the otters diet. The report is nearly 5 years old so things would have moved on. I also think I saw reported somewhere recently that ground nesting birds are under increasing threat from predation, notably otters.

I am only hypothesising but to me its fairly logical to predict that dwindling fish stocks in rivers will force a change in the behaviour of otters-turning to other sources of food or even becoming more urbanised.



http://www.otter.org/documents/IOSF Otters and Fisheries Conference 2012 Edinburgh.pdf
 
Hiya chaps, not been on here in a while. Hope you had a good run of fish before the season was out.
I believe the blog was always going to be devisive, and the nature of it was going to create a bit of a storm. Simply because you have a huge proportion of anglers who feel the data collected doesn't fit with their theories or what they've witnessed personally on their own rivers. Rightfully so to be a little miffed off really. So therefore the small study that was conducted a while back on the H.Avon is 'inconvenient' based on fishermens feelings. The results are what they are. It's in black and white, collected through accepted scientific research. I do wonder if it would've been better acknowledged by the barbel angling fraternity had the results been the other way round?
A healthy river should be able to support predation, the minute an otter takes a few barbel and the local population crashes, you will find there are other issues at heart. These are what should be focused on by angling groups, in my opinion that is, and are much more changeable than calling for a cull on a native species that has gone down as one of the greatest conservation projects in history! And highly protected by rock solid directives and regulations.
The mass majority of the UK love the otter, anglers opinions are divided, some hate them, some like them, and a hell of a lot just aren't bothered. Create a united platform before you go anywhere, otherwise the foundations crumble. As always, egos have a lot to play in this, thus it just leads to attacks of a personal nature, as has recently been witnessed elsewhere. It's doomed from the start with that sort of attitude. Studies are there to try and prove something, although with this I don't think you'll ever get a definitive answer, but it should be used as an excuse to take on further research to prove otherwise in different catchments. Not use it to discredit individuals work etc. So, get out there with your pooperscoopa's, join your local trusts etc. I've had enough of giving groups ideas for them to claim credit, but an alliance with the Cardiff university Otter Project wouldn't be a bad idea I would've thought, I've contacted them personally many times in the past. They are extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Mountains of data to boot. Just a suggestion for those looking in. :D Can you imagine a meeting where various groups are around the table trying to improve a rivers ecosystem for all its inhabitants to thrive. Please lord?
 
Hi men,

Bobby , why contact the personally , and not use your position to drive it through the Barbel Society ?.


Hatter
 
I'm no longer a member of the Barbel Society nor on its committee, Mark. I contacted them personally as I felt there would've been a little bit of conflict had I used the BS name with the questions I put across. I mentioned this to the lads some while back, but it fell on death ears, so I cracked on personally. Same with the stillwater barbel stockings issue. Which needs revisiting.
 
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