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Is it me? Is it real?

Interesting comments Dave but our habitat/size would be suitable for the reintroduction of the European Lynx which used to be indigenous...
 
Speak for yourself Mike, I concentrate on the beauty of the nature all around me (when I'm not reading the newspaper :eek:)
 
And I'm usually answering the phone or drinking coffee when anything of note......like a bite or a charging rhino happens.
 
In the Pacific Rim National Park Reserve, scat samples showed North American river otters to make up 10% of the cougar's (puma's) diet.

Just saying..
 
Interesting tread. I can remember back in the 70's when animal circuses were being bombarded by the anti-animal protesters. A few of the circuses closed down with some animals being let free, the likes of Wallabies, Kangaroos, Birds etc. What about the animals that have escaped from wildlife parks that have never been captured. Also, a few people who kept lions and Tigers as pets. The one that comes to mind is the Female lion brought up in a Chelse flat. Who's to say those others that kept these animals didn't just dump them in forests around the country. I does make you wonder what is really hiding in our woods and forests.
 
Iain Tutt said:
Interesting tread. I can remember back in the 70's when animal circuses were being bombarded by the anti-animal protesters. A few of the circuses closed down with some animals being let free, the likes of Wallabies, Kangaroos, Birds etc. What about the animals that have escaped from wildlife parks that have never been captured. Also, a few people who kept lions and Tigers as pets. The one that comes to mind is the Female lion brought up in a Chelse flat. Who's to say those others that kept these animals didn't just dump them in forests around the country. I does make you wonder what is really hiding in our woods and forests.
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I think that's a huge call too suggest that those animals that were let free, if the indeed were, managed to survive to this day.
Besides our woods and forests would not be able to hide anything quite so big as these creatures.
The Scottish Highlands, just about can maintain a few wild cats, the rest of the country...no chance.
 
Iain Tutt said:
Interesting tread. I can remember back in the 70's when animal circuses were being bombarded by the anti-animal protesters. A few of the circuses closed down with some animals being let free, the likes of Wallabies, Kangaroos, Birds etc. What about the animals that have escaped from wildlife parks that have never been captured. Also, a few people who kept lions and Tigers as pets. The one that comes to mind is the Female lion brought up in a Chelse flat. Who's to say those others that kept these animals didn't just dump them in forests around the country. I does make you wonder what is really hiding in our woods and forests.
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It is believed that the 1976 Dangerous Wild Animals Act was responsible for some big cats being released. Some owners simply couldn't afford to install the infrastructure required to comply with the act and, not wanting to have the animals put down, decided to release them into the wild. None of those animals could possibly be alive today.

It is also possible that private collectors and indeed some zoos may well have had escapees which went unreported for fear of legal reprisal.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
It is believed that the 1976 Dangerous Wild Animals Act was responsible for some big cats being released. Some owners simply couldn't afford to install the infrastructure required to comply with the act and, not wanting to have the animals put down, decided to release them into the wild. None of those animals could possibly be alive today.

It is also possible that private collectors and indeed some zoos may well have had escapees which went unreported for fear of legal reprisal.
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Very much like Beavers in Devon which appeared from nowhere ;)
 
I would have thought there are areas where animals could exist with little chance of discovery, but if they were escapees or been set free, they wouldnt hide from humans as they will have been used to humans and being fed by them so more likely to be seen than our native wildlife.
 
What is very surprising is the fact that they need a study to see what effect they have on woodland and migratory fish, fairly simple answer is that they fell trees and build dams that will stop the progress of migratory fish.

I find it astonishing that creatures that have been illegally introduced into the wild have been allowed to remain in the wild with a view to releasing others, what happens to those in the trial if unexpectedly they are found not to be suitable for more releases? the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Thanks for the link Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Alex, I concede your point about multiple sightings of cats possibly being of the same animal, in fact I never disputed that. But, are you really serious when you say "I would not consider the UK to be a tiny country/island either. It is in fact a very large Island" :eek: The whole of the UK can fit into Australia more than 31 times...now THAT is a "Big Island". However, we were discussing big cats from Eastern North America in our particular discussion, so let's compare it's size to that. In landmass, the whole of the UK will fit into the US over 40 times. Now, if we wish to say that the 'Eastern side' was only a quarter of the US, then it would still make that ten times the landmass of the whole of the UK. However, we could also reasonably claim that the 'eastern side' of the US was meant to read as being roughly half of that continent...but I will split the difference and call it 15 times the landmass of the UK.

Now, is that area of the US the 'Harsh landscape' you claim in another post? Far from it. In fact the Eastern half of the US is very wild and beautiful indeed in many areas. Consider this...the UK is a little over 150,000 square miles in total. Just ONE of the many wild and wonderful national parks in the Eastern US (the Great Smoky Mountain National Park) has an area of getting on for 820 square miles. That is over 10% of the area of Wales...in one park! On top of these National Parks there are National forests and other wild areas, and vast areas of farmed land you could lose the UK in several times over.

Lastly, you say that I was claiming that the Lynx was extinct in the Eastern US. The animal I actually mentioned was the Cougar, also known as the Puma or Mountain Lion. These are large cats and have been known on rare occasions to kill humans, but will frequently kill large farmed animals, which is why they were wiped out in the Eastern part of the US. AS you say, there may be more sheep per acre in the UK than there are in the USA, but that is more than compensated for by other livestock numbers, and massively so by wild animal numbers. What gives you the idea that the Eastern side of the US is 'A harsh landscape' is quite beyond me.

No matter, the facts are all there if you care to look....if not, then I will lay it out. Based purely on suitable habitat and food availability, a large cat is far, far more likely to survive and thrive in the Eastern US than it is in the UK. Unfortunately for them, there is a much less cat friendly factor to cope with. The rather disturbing gung ho, gun toting mindset of Americans that has been so much in the news lately, combined with their ludicrously simple access to guns, AND the the massive popularity of hunting in that country has meant that despite otherwise perfect conditions, these cats have been virtually wiped out in that area. The Western side of the US has far more mountainous and rugged areas, where pockets of such animals still exist...but they will get them all eventually.

Sorry to once more ramble on endlessly. The point is, I don't totally disagree with you Alex...but you do seem to have some rather strange beliefs, if you will forgive me for saying so. But, then again, I suppose it is just as likely to be me that has it all ass about face mate :D:D:D

All good fun though :p

Cheers, Dave.
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Not sure my beliefs are all that strange Dave, but I have no problem you saying they are! You certainly aren't the first... I just keep a more open mind than many others and don't dismiss things out of hand just because I personally have no concrete evidence or first hand experience.

Maybe I was wrong about the East coats region of the states being a harsh environment but my point was that it's unlikely to be as heavily populated with domestic and wild prey as the UK. How anyone thinks a wild cat could not survive in this country is beyond me. And everyone shrieking for proof is conveniently ignoring all the reports and evidence from what could be termed responsible sources (eg police officers) or dismissing them out of hand. Do people actually want to be attacked by one of these animals before they give any credibility to any reports?

To compare the UK in size to Australia is ridiculous Dave.It is often called a "tiny Island" but Malta is a tiny Island, or the Channel Islands. The UK is as large as New Zealand and is an average sized country, certainly not "tiny"!
Anyway, does it really matter who believes wild cats are out there and who doesn't? I, and many others do, you and many others obviously don't! Whatever any of us think will make no difference to the truth, whichever side of the argument it may be :)
 
Graham Young said:
What is very surprising is the fact that they need a study to see what effect they have on woodland and migratory fish, fairly simple answer is that they fell trees and build dams that will stop the progress of migratory fish.

'what happens to those in the trial if unexpectedly they are found not to be suitable for more releases?'

Not really Graham, it would be pretty irresponsible not to monitor the impact on migratory fish and woodland. Whilst the overall view of fishery experts is that beavers are beneficial for migratory fish - this is predominantly based one evidence gathered in North America and Europe, not the UK so clearly there is evidence gap.

Clearly there is an issue with the potential for beaver dams to act as barriers to migratory fish, as well as the potential for localised loss of spawning habitat, but this has to be weighed up against the increased habitat heterogeneity, the impact of beaver ponds which are known to benefit young fish, increased insect prey for fish to feed on, and the creation of safe refuges in times of flood and drought. The study will, hopefully, be able to shed some light on the net impact - which is likely to vary between catchments.

Same with the woodland really - what is the net benefit of beaver coppicing in woodland?

'what happens to those in the trial if unexpectedly they are found not to be suitable for more releases?'

'One condition of the trial is a clear Exit Strategy which requires the partners to remove the beavers from the river if certain ‘triggers’ are reached. These include the impacts on local landowners and communities being deemed unacceptable, or the trial running out of money. This can happen at any time during the trial or at its conclusion in 2020 if Natural England judges it necessary.'
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They do exist, I and my family have actually been shown the damage by farmers within the Radnor Forest, we have actually seen them on more than one occasion, and they definitely become more adventurous around lambing season
 
Richard Burton said:
They do exist, I and my family have actually been shown the damage by farmers within the Radnor Forest, we have actually seen them on more than one occasion, and they definitely become more adventurous around lambing season
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So you've seen them and seen the damage they do Richard. As have many others from all walks of life. Yet that will still not be considered evidence of their existence by some :rolleyes: Could you perhaps try to catch one next time or better still, interview one just after it's made a kill? The we can get the evidence straight from the horses mouth so to speak :)

Joking aside, I know Dave thinks I have some pretty weird ideas but the evidence for these cats roaming wild is fairly prolific and consistent.
 
I do believe one night in the forest I was far too close for comfort, although they may be more scared of us than we are them, but I had my dog with me at the time.
My dog a rather butch and big Staffy who spent most the time on the bank with me day and night, refused to go any further past a large derelict barn, and I mean he stuck his heels in and was willing to pull backwards out of his collar, I thought oh well hes had enough and wants to get back to the holiday cottage so I turned around and he was fine and wanted to walk my feet off again, so I walked him back towards the barn, same again petrified. on speaking to a farmer the next day he then said they do sometimes hold up in the barn, and went in for a nosey with me, sure enough a fresh lamb carcase.
 
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