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Is it me? Is it real?

Mike Hodgkiss said:
Morning folks . I still re iterate my earlier question .For those in this fascinating debate that state that big cat sightings are tosh , what would they say to those individuals on this forum who have had direct experiences and have been brave enough to say so ? It is fine to believe , it is equally fine not to believe , but these people have SEEN these things , if it isn't big cats that they have seen ,what is it , how have they been mistaken ?
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Morning Neil . So to reiterate , what have these people seen ?
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
Morning folks . I still re iterate my earlier question .For those in this fascinating debate that state that big cat sightings are tosh , what would they say to those individuals on this forum who have had direct experiences and have been brave enough to say so ? It is fine to believe , it is equally fine not to believe , but these people have SEEN these things , if it isn't big cats that they have seen ,what is it , how have they been mistaken ?
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I might concede Mike that some cats have been spotted, it is feasible that they have escaped. But I would reckon a lot of these sightings have been confused with other creatures, or just been imagined.

If you were to ask a group of people who witnessed a crime, the accounts would differ greatly. And as far as witness statements as to descriptions that goes off the scale.
 
Neil Smart said:
No I am genuinely confused that as Anglers we do have an understanding of the requirements that species need to survive. To repeat I am not discounting that Big Cats have escaped and even been seen, I will concede that, but that is of no consequence, the question is can they survive in the 'wild' and I will say No they cannot for any reasonable period.
If you look at the Scottish Wild Cat, a little bigger than a domestic Cat, it's habitat has been under threat for decades, even in the remotest parts of this Island. They are extremely rare to see, but they are managing to re-establish their numbers, just.
There would seem to be no chance of any big cat surviving for any length of time in any other part of these Isles, let alone a Urban environment.
This debate is about Big Cat sightings, well I can go to Bristol Zoo to see them, but that is not the question, it's whether these creatures could survive, for me that is a big fat NO!!
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OK fair point, but as I see it if they can survive in their natural habitat then they shouldn't have much trouble surviving in a food rich country like the UK. And rich in easy to catch food as well. But unless any are tagged and monitored then we won't really know their lifespan living wild in this country.
 
Neil Smart said:
I might concede Mike that some cats have been spotted, it is feasible that they have escaped. But I would reckon a lot of these sightings have been confused with other creatures, or just been imagined.

If you were to ask a group of people who witnessed a crime, the accounts would differ greatly. And as far as witness statements as to descriptions that goes off the scale.
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I discussed this on Saturday with a very good friend of mine who saw a big cat . He was in a car in daylight , the feline ran across the road in front of him , then stopped in the field and looked at him , it was , as they say a close encounter . I and others spoke face to face with him minutes after this happened he looked and sounded completely shocked and dumbfounded . He said at the time ,and when we spoke again at the weekend that the creature was labrador sized , black with a long tail .
 
Alex Gowney said:
OK fair point, but as I see it if they can survive in their natural habitat then they shouldn't have much trouble surviving in a food rich country like the UK. And rich in easy to catch food as well. But unless any are tagged and monitored then we won't really know their lifespan living wild in this country.
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Alas it's not just food Alex, the habitat needs to be suitable to sustain an existence, we don't have such creatures that are indigenous for that very reason. And to expect a few escapee's to be able to adapt long term for me is just not possible.

When you consider where these big felines do exist, they are large areas that can sustain them, even though that is in all too many cases not the case, with Man's encroachment on their habitat(s).

These big cat's depended on hunting prey the like we have never seen in this country, well not for thousand of years. OK a few escapee's might have to resort to sheep pigs, and the odd Angler :rolleyes: but even the most enthusiastic of believers should consider this environment is just not suitable.
 
The areas where big cats have been seen in my part of the country , have deep woodland or numerous pockets of woodland where they can hide ,and are heavily populated with prey species , e.g. deer , sheep , rabbits , a proper tuck shop and easy pickings
 
Quite so Mike....plenty of cover and potential grub for a predator here in the New Forrest.....haven't seen " Herds of Wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain" to quote BF, but plenty of deer and wild ponies to go at!:D
 
There have been sightings that were accurate but these have all been known escapees. They do not last long - the recent Lynx was three weeks before being captured.

Why do we believe reports of sightings without actual evidence is the difficult part and it is, as i and others have mentioned, part of a romantic notion we all have about the wild. I think people do believe they saw a big cat; the question is though did they or is it the mind playing some psychological trick? Often our mind leads us to believe that creatures are much bigger than they really are. We do not hear much now of people having encounters with UFO but back in the 70's when the space race was on and this was all new sightings/encounters went through the roof...hmmm.

As i have said most sightings are of black cats (there has never been one of a spotted leopard) but these are one of rarest forms in the wild - how many of us have ever even seen one in captivity? Yet they are running freely round the UK it seems, sorry but it does not stack up...

There is also a story of police officer in Leamington Spa sent out to investigate a call about an escaped lion and early in the morning whilst asking a milkman if he had seen it the lion jumped through his back window into the car...
 
did a bit of reading on this, "wildification" is a proposal to re introduce long lost critters. Bears ( never going to happen) wolves ( maybe) Lynx ( quite possibly)
Thankfully most of these are scheduled for Scotland if anywhere lol.
1 interesting point they made that on a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is wild natural and 5 is your back garden, none of our multitude of national parks score less than 4, ie the local village green. We tell 3rd world countries to save their wild life and wild country but we have trashed ours.
 
Neil Smart said:
I might concede Mike that some cats have been spotted, it is feasible that they have escaped. But I would reckon a lot of these sightings have been confused with other creatures, or just been imagined.

If you were to ask a group of people who witnessed a crime, the accounts would differ greatly. And as far as witness statements as to descriptions that goes off the scale.
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Neil,

You may think me crazy Neil but I assure you I have seen a Black cat twice. Most recently on the way back from Gloucester in the autumn last year. It ran across the road in front of the car at speed on the way back from Gloucester late at night. Was long but I'd guess the size of a Labrador. But my wife say next to me saw the same- I didn't say anything at first but then said "did you ..." And she cut me off and said "you just saw that too?"

Other time was back when I was about 12 on farmland by the 3 counties showground. We were in a open top Defender out shooting as my friends dad was employed by local farms to cull foxes that were causing problems. Went into a field and 3 of the 6 of us on the left side of vehicle saw a black cat stood in the entrance to the field we were in. As guy with the red light went to shine it on where we said the cat disappeared behind the hedges and went.

I know a few people who have seen it around here-
Too many for it not to be true
 
OK. What we really need is some concrete evidence. So everyone, make sure your GoPro is fully charged, that you have some Plaster of Paris in your tackle-bag to get a cast of the prints you find, a sandwich bag for the droppings, a separate bag for the hair sample and if at all possible, a selfie on your smartphone of you standing cheek-to-cheek with said cat. Oh, a high quality field recorder for sound would be a bonus. ;)

Edit: I forgot to add at least three reliable witnesses who can verify your story :)
 
Alex Gowney said:
Good to see you have an open mind Dave! And basing your thoughts on logic you do realise that not every sighting or report is someone's imagination! :)

I'm not sure anyone has suggested large numbers of big cats, after all, twenty sightings could well be the same animal. A bit like trying to establish how many big barbel in a stretch of river due to recaptures. I would not consider the UK to be a tiny country/island either. It is in fact a very large Island and that there are many places these creatures could keep out of sight for long periods is not in question. As has been pointed out, many thousands of badgers manage it!
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Alex, I concede your point about multiple sightings of cats possibly being of the same animal, in fact I never disputed that. But, are you really serious when you say "I would not consider the UK to be a tiny country/island either. It is in fact a very large Island" :eek: The whole of the UK can fit into Australia more than 31 times...now THAT is a "Big Island". However, we were discussing big cats from Eastern North America in our particular discussion, so let's compare it's size to that. In landmass, the whole of the UK will fit into the US over 40 times. Now, if we wish to say that the 'Eastern side' was only a quarter of the US, then it would still make that ten times the landmass of the whole of the UK. However, we could also reasonably claim that the 'eastern side' of the US was meant to read as being roughly half of that continent...but I will split the difference and call it 15 times the landmass of the UK.

Now, is that area of the US the 'Harsh landscape' you claim in another post? Far from it. In fact the Eastern half of the US is very wild and beautiful indeed in many areas. Consider this...the UK is a little over 150,000 square miles in total. Just ONE of the many wild and wonderful national parks in the Eastern US (the Great Smoky Mountain National Park) has an area of getting on for 820 square miles. That is over 10% of the area of Wales...in one park! On top of these National Parks there are National forests and other wild areas, and vast areas of farmed land you could lose the UK in several times over.

Lastly, you say that I was claiming that the Lynx was extinct in the Eastern US. The animal I actually mentioned was the Cougar, also known as the Puma or Mountain Lion. These are large cats and have been known on rare occasions to kill humans, but will frequently kill large farmed animals, which is why they were wiped out in the Eastern part of the US. AS you say, there may be more sheep per acre in the UK than there are in the USA, but that is more than compensated for by other livestock numbers, and massively so by wild animal numbers. What gives you the idea that the Eastern side of the US is 'A harsh landscape' is quite beyond me.

No matter, the facts are all there if you care to look....if not, then I will lay it out. Based purely on suitable habitat and food availability, a large cat is far, far more likely to survive and thrive in the Eastern US than it is in the UK. Unfortunately for them, there is a much less cat friendly factor to cope with. The rather disturbing gung ho, gun toting mindset of Americans that has been so much in the news lately, combined with their ludicrously simple access to guns, AND the the massive popularity of hunting in that country has meant that despite otherwise perfect conditions, these cats have been virtually wiped out in that area. The Western side of the US has far more mountainous and rugged areas, where pockets of such animals still exist...but they will get them all eventually.

Sorry to once more ramble on endlessly. The point is, I don't totally disagree with you Alex...but you do seem to have some rather strange beliefs, if you will forgive me for saying so. But, then again, I suppose it is just as likely to be me that has it all ass about face mate :D:D:D

All good fun though :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
Very good Dave, think you covered everything I couldn't have possibly put down so well.
The crux of what you say and that I also stated, is the habitat in this country is just not suitable to support such a creature in any shape or form for a period beyond escapee mode anyway.
 
There must be 50,000,000+ mobile phones with cameras, plus there's all the other (mostly) digital cameras in this country. We've had them for many years, with so many bird-watchers, shooters, wild-life watchers, and anglers, all in hides or camo/muted clothing, sitting quietly in the undergrowth.....for hour upon hour.....................

But still no (half-decent) picture. Not one of reasonable note.
 
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