Hardy Marksman rod discussion

[Graham Elliott]

< edit - moved these posts from a sales thread - not appropriate in that thread as it diluted the rod on offer - paul4>



Question. Just bought a

Hardy marksman xt float 13ft rod with the top 3inches missing. Was £95.

It will need a new top ring, and probably cut off at the ring below to make it 12.6.

I bought it as it seems impossible to get a feeder rod that isn't with an insert, where I prefer a straight through rod.

Mad? Or should work well?.

 

[Alec Hague]

Question. Just bought a

Hardy marksman xt float 13ft rod with the top 3inches missing. Was £95.

It will need a new top ring, and probably cut off at the ring below to make it 12.6.

I bought it as it seems impossible to get a feeder rod that isn't with an insert, where I prefer a straight through rod.

Mad? Or should work well?.

I had an xt feeder 11'. Even though I was told it was 1/3 cheaper than a marksman, it was still a good rod. The price asked for xt rods on ebay though is silly when compared to used marksman. I have a sji.ano aspire ultra 13. I broke 3" and had it cut back and a new tip ring. Feels just the same to me. For £15. I think you will enjoy the xt just a little shorter but for what u paid and a repair, do you care? Enjoy it.

 

[Graham Elliott]

I had an xt feeder 11'. Even though I was told it was 1/3 cheaper than a marksman, it was still a good rod. The price asked for xt rods on ebay though is silly when compared to used marksman. I have a sji.ano aspire ultra 13. I broke 3" and had it cut back and a new tip ring. Feels just the same to me. For £15. I think you will enjoy the xt just a little shorter but for what u paid and a repair, do you care? Enjoy it.

How will it do as a feeder rod....chub etc.

 

[Alec Hague]

How will it do as a feeder rod....chub etc.

Maybe on the light side out of choice but whatever anyone says if your tackle is balanced and you are patient you will land anything. I docked the old Qe 2 with mine when the tugs were on strike. . Seriously I have had very angry mid double commons on my aspire match. Not impossible at all.

 

[Alec Hague]

Ps. I often use all my float rods with feeders, light obviously,, under a Polaris float. They all work well. I suspect it's kinder on the fish and more fun than towing them in. If anyone wants my guide of how best to use the Polaris floats just pm me with your em address and I will send it over when I get back.

 

[Graham Elliott]

I often fish with them Alec. Wonderful for tench and carp

 

[Alec Hague]

Very true. I have found though Graham the best are the early shiny black two pack painted ones. They were made from late 80's. Given away as prizes later in sets of 5 by angling times in return for pics published of catches. They are perfect.

 

[Alec Hague]

Ps peacock quill too, virtually unbreakable.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

When you receive it you’ll know straight away whether the tip as it is will be sensitive enough for feeder fishing or not.
The other thing to consider is the suitability of the guides being high stand off and spaced for float use.
If it was mine it would be getting a solid carbon tip spliced into the blank whether it be match or feeder just simply to give it its tip back.

 

[Alec Hague]

When you receive it you’ll know straight away whether the tip as it is will be sensitive enough for feeder fishing or not.
The other thing to consider is the suitability of the guides being high stand off and spaced for float use.
If it was mine it would be getting a solid carbon tip spliced into the blank whether it be match or feeder just simply to give it its tip back.

Hi Richard. Intrigued by your comment. When a spiced tip is added, are the cut and drilled ? I ask as I always fancied a tip on a harrison torrix and an avon l but was told they would only do it with a 3oz tip whereas I read others saying you can go down to 2oz. I had the xt feeder but having just broken a tip of my reactorlite float I was considering a tip but thought it too slim .If the spiced is like a horticultural plant splice if cut so both identical inside then joined like an old fashion wood joint ie lapped, I understand. I am having the float effectively sleeved ie joined together and obviously will have a flat spot as long as the sleeve but its for polaris use as the tip is the key.

 

[Huanzhou Zhu]

Hi Richard. Intrigued by your comment. When a spiced tip is added, are the cut and drilled ? I ask as I always fancied a tip on a harrison torrix and an avon l but was told they would only do it with a 3oz tip whereas I read others saying you can go down to 2oz. I had the xt feeder but having just broken a tip of my reactorlite float I was considering a tip but thought it too slim .If the spiced is like a horticultural plant splice if cut so both identical inside then joined like an old fashion wood joint ie lapped, I understand. I am having the float effectively sleeved ie joined together and obviously will have a flat spot as long as the sleeve but its for polaris use as the tip is the key.

To do the spliced tip, you need to cut the blank at the point you want the tip in, and put the tip in the blank like those telescopic rod.

I am sure you can do 2oz spliced tip on Avon, Richard had his Avon build that way.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Hi Richard. Intrigued by your comment. When a spiced tip is added, are the cut and drilled ? I ask as I always fancied a tip on a harrison torrix and an avon l but was told they would only do it with a 3oz tip whereas I read others saying you can go down to 2oz. I had the xt feeder but having just broken a tip of my reactorlite float I was considering a tip but thought it too slim .If the spiced is like a horticultural plant splice if cut so both identical inside then joined like an old fashion wood joint ie lapped, I understand. I am having the float effectively sleeved ie joined together and obviously will have a flat spot as long as the sleeve but its for polaris use as the tip is the key.

I did a bit of research before doing my first to see what people’s take on it was and based on the information I read, it is supposed to be a simple task.
It’s not! It’s actually a very time consuming and imo complicated task if you are to get it right.
Now that is the fundamental difference between every match rod I’ve ever come across with a spliced tip and the couple I’ve done myself.

The requirement is to simply take a solid carbon tip, put it into the back of a blank cut tip section

and pull it through the front till the tapers lock up tight. Like so

Easy yes. Well no
There’s lots to consider.
First if your carbon tip has a diameter at the back of 3.5mm you need to know where that 3.5mm diameter is inside your blank before you cut it and you need to cut it so that the 3.5mm diameter is around 50mm behind the place you cut so that there is enough tip section taper locked up against your blank wall.
You also need the tapers to match so be prepared to modify the back of the tip to suit.

You also need the final length of the section to match the other 2 which doesn’t work if your tip is 3.5mm at 600mm but your rod section only needs 500 to come off for the same diameter.

Never cut the fine end of the tip section down to suit the length. That defeats the entire object of the spliced tip. All modifications to the tip section (length, diameter and taper) must be done at the back end only

You also need to think about guide placement. You want your spliced joint to be positioned exactly where a guide and whipping will be placed or it’s not right imo.
It should be impossible to tell to an untrained eye that this is a spliced tip rod like so

After all that you need to ensure the action matches. The spliced tip should bend very easily at the tip and progressively bend and bend as more pressure is applied and this bend should perfectly blend into the bend of the hollow section showing no evidence of a flat spot or hinge point. Like so

The difference between taking these steps and doing it right or slamming any old tip in any old section is absolutely night and day and I’ve never used a splice tip rod anywhere near as good as the ones I’ve spliced myself but it comes at a cost.

5 tips I went through before settling on the right one for my rod and even then I had to change both the length and taper angle because that wasn’t quite perfect out the tube.

It’s worth doing if you really love the rod.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Oh …… never glue the tip into the section either. The tapers locked up and a cover whipping is enough.

Should you break the tip, you want to be able to get it out easily and replace it again

 

[Huanzhou Zhu]

I did a bit of research before doing my first to see what people’s take on it was and based on the information I read, it is supposed to be a simple task.
It’s not! It’s actually a very time consuming and imo complicated task if you are to get it right.
Now that is the fundamental difference between every match rod I’ve ever come across with a spliced tip and the couple I’ve done myself.

The requirement is to simply take a solid carbon tip, put it into the back of a blank cut tip section View attachment 31475and pull it through the front till the tapers lock up tight. Like soView attachment 31476
Easy yes. Well no
There’s lots to consider.
First if your carbon tip has a diameter at the back of 3.5mm you need to know where that 3.5mm diameter is inside your blank before you cut it and you need to cut it so that the 3.5mm diameter is around 50mm behind the place you cut so that there is enough tip section taper locked up against your blank wall.
You also need the tapers to match so be prepared to modify the back of the tip to suit.

You also need the final length of the section to match the other 2 which doesn’t work if your tip is 3.5mm at 600mm but your rod section only needs 500 to come off for the same diameter.

Never cut the fine end of the tip section down to suit the length. That defeats the entire object of the spliced tip. All modifications to the tip section (length, diameter and taper) must be done at the back end only

You also need to think about guide placement. You want your spliced joint to be positioned exactly where a guide and whipping will be placed or it’s not right imo.
It should be impossible to tell to an untrained eye that this is a spliced tip rod like so View attachment 31477

After all that you need to ensure the action matches. The spliced tip should bend very easily at the tip and progressively bend and bend as more pressure is applied and this bend should perfectly blend into the bend of the hollow section showing no evidence of a flat spot or hinge point. Like so View attachment 31478

The difference between taking these steps and doing it right or slamming any old tip in any old section is absolutely night and day and I’ve never used a splice tip rod anywhere near as good as the ones I’ve spliced myself but it comes at a cost.

5 tips I went through before settling on the right one for my rod and even then I had to change both the length and taper angle because that wasn’t quite perfect out the tube.

It’s worth doing if you really love the rod.

Where did you get the solid tips? I can only find them on guides and blanks.

I bought both glass and carbon tips, but yet to find the length matching the action. Still experimenting, a lots of cutting to do and time consuming as you said. And I am horrible with whipping. It’s easy to get it done, but hard to get it right.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I’m alright at whipping but my epoxy work is not up to standard. I had that all the high build gloss done by a builder

I bought several guides n blanks tips. None of which I was happy with
I bought a browning tip that didn’t work aswell.
The one in my avenger 2000 is a maver tip. It was absolutely spot on for that rod.

What do you need exactly. Length x diameter

 

[Alec Hague]

I did a bit of research before doing my first to see what people’s take on it was and based on the information I read, it is supposed to be a simple task.
It’s not! It’s actually a very time consuming and imo complicated task if you are to get it right.
Now that is the fundamental difference between every match rod I’ve ever come across with a spliced tip and the couple I’ve done myself.

The requirement is to simply take a solid carbon tip, put it into the back of a blank cut tip section View attachment 31475and pull it through the front till the tapers lock up tight. Like soView attachment 31476
Easy yes. Well no
There’s lots to consider.
First if your carbon tip has a diameter at the back of 3.5mm you need to know where that 3.5mm diameter is inside your blank before you cut it and you need to cut it so that the 3.5mm diameter is around 50mm behind the place you cut so that there is enough tip section taper locked up against your blank wall.
You also need the tapers to match so be prepared to modify the back of the tip to suit.

You also need the final length of the section to match the other 2 which doesn’t work if your tip is 3.5mm at 600mm but your rod section only needs 500 to come off for the same diameter.

Never cut the fine end of the tip section down to suit the length. That defeats the entire object of the spliced tip. All modifications to the tip section (length, diameter and taper) must be done at the back end only

You also need to think about guide placement. You want your spliced joint to be positioned exactly where a guide and whipping will be placed or it’s not right imo.
It should be impossible to tell to an untrained eye that this is a spliced tip rod like so View attachment 31477

After all that you need to ensure the action matches. The spliced tip should bend very easily at the tip and progressively bend and bend as more pressure is applied and this bend should perfectly blend into the bend of the hollow section showing no evidence of a flat spot or hinge point. Like so View attachment 31478

The difference between taking these steps and doing it right or slamming any old tip in any old section is absolutely night and day and I’ve never used a splice tip rod anywhere near as good as the ones I’ve spliced myself but it comes at a cost.

5 tips I went through before settling on the right one for my rod and even then I had to change both the length and taper angle because that wasn’t quite perfect out the tube.

It’s worth doing if you really love the rod.

Wow, brilliant reply. Never even thought it was done that way.Way beyond both my skills and patience levels.

 

[Alec Hague]

Oh …… never glue the tip into the section either. The tapers locked up and a cover whipping is enough.

Should you break the tip, you want to be able to get it out easily and replace it again

Ah thanks. That answers too a question on my torrix with a 4oz s/t should I ever break it.

 

[Alec Hague]

I did a bit of research before doing my first to see what people’s take on it was and based on the information I read, it is supposed to be a simple task.
It’s not! It’s actually a very time consuming and imo complicated task if you are to get it right.
Now that is the fundamental difference between every match rod I’ve ever come across with a spliced tip and the couple I’ve done myself.

The requirement is to simply take a solid carbon tip, put it into the back of a blank cut tip section View attachment 31475and pull it through the front till the tapers lock up tight. Like soView attachment 31476
Easy yes. Well no
There’s lots to consider.
First if your carbon tip has a diameter at the back of 3.5mm you need to know where that 3.5mm diameter is inside your blank before you cut it and you need to cut it so that the 3.5mm diameter is around 50mm behind the place you cut so that there is enough tip section taper locked up against your blank wall.
You also need the tapers to match so be prepared to modify the back of the tip to suit.

You also need the final length of the section to match the other 2 which doesn’t work if your tip is 3.5mm at 600mm but your rod section only needs 500 to come off for the same diameter.

Never cut the fine end of the tip section down to suit the length. That defeats the entire object of the spliced tip. All modifications to the tip section (length, diameter and taper) must be done at the back end only

You also need to think about guide placement. You want your spliced joint to be positioned exactly where a guide and whipping will be placed or it’s not right imo.
It should be impossible to tell to an untrained eye that this is a spliced tip rod like so View attachment 31477

After all that you need to ensure the action matches. The spliced tip should bend very easily at the tip and progressively bend and bend as more pressure is applied and this bend should perfectly blend into the bend of the hollow section showing no evidence of a flat spot or hinge point. Like so View attachment 31478

The difference between taking these steps and doing it right or slamming any old tip in any old section is absolutely night and day and I’ve never used a splice tip rod anywhere near as good as the ones I’ve spliced myself but it comes at a cost.

5 tips I went through before settling on the right one for my rod and even then I had to change both the length and taper angle because that wasn’t quite perfect out the tube.

It’s worth doing if you really love

 

[Graham Elliott]

Oh to be any good at DIY. Which as my Wife will confirm...I'm not!

My converted rod will be used on the Lower Severn, WAvon and Wessex waters. Often with a bit of push.

Yes I already have Feeder rods with
1 to 4oz quiver tips. However, apart from the lighter tips being useless on these rivers, I have always found most feeder rods bend through the tip and top section and the rest of the rod is solid.

Some time ago I did a review of the Korum all Rounder...a supposed float and feeder rod. It was superb in handling Throop chub. A real through action rod that bent into the butt section.
As I mentioned, I don't think many pure "feeder" rods on the market do that.

I'm hoping this Hardy 13ft float rod. Now to hopefully end up as 12.6 or 12.3 thereabouts, with a new top tip, can give me a perfect feeder rod to cover all the options.

 

[Alec Hague]

Really appreciate you taking the trouble to give such a fine detailed reply. I had a hunch maybe that was how it was done when a naked blank but never applied it to a repair situation. Doh. By the way just home from collecting from Cliff the 12' tsi specialist. It's a long rod though, 12'.1 assempled. A little grubby but will clean up well, nice 3 legged rings though to tip. Action reminds me of the old free spirit 1 1/4 chestnut brown barbel from the late 90's which I got maybe 12 years ago. Bit stiffer obviously. Alan bought the Hardy. Will go off next week. Meeting my pal at decoy next thursday so he owes me a favour so he may pay for my day ticket when I pass money over if alan stil happy when he sees it. He might not too! Ha.