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Flourocarbon

Craig Wood said:
One thing ive noticed when using fluro for hooklengths in the past is the fact your hook does not always sit properly on the bottom..The hook sits up off the bottom which is no good if your fishing clear rivers due to it sticking out like a sore thumb!!..I often thought that maybe thats why some times you get the bites and others you dont due to the hook position on the river bed..Since using braid as mainline and also hooklengths i wouldent go back to fluro or mono..But as someone has rightly already said whats good for one man is no good fro another..:)
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Craig, i noticed this as well. To combat this I've found and i'm sure others do also is to use fluro with braid as a short combi-rig, with some heavy metal putty on the knot to pin it down. Seems to work well in daylight on the Kennet, although I must say the Kennet is never particulary clear.
 
Paul, thats exactly how i use it so that you can still get good presentation from the braid right at the hook combined with good concealment further up from the pinned down fluoro.
 
I have caught several doubles on 11.5 lb froghair and can't remember losing any fish to a snapped line.I suspect your experimentation is flawed with those results and my experience using it over 3 years.I also use it in spate rivers in flood and I believe the swale, which I often fish, is one of the fastest flowing rivers in the country- so the force on the line holding a fish that is heading downstream is therefore even greater. When a fish is in water it does not weigh what it does out of it. Have you ever tried lifting up people heavier than you in water - it's easy. Froghair fluoro works for me with the way I use it and for my friends that have used it
geoff
p.s I use long hooklengths and halfway along put on a fox braid floatstop to hold some tungsten putty to pin it to the riverbed. Rivers flatten out line -which you don't get if you drop your hooklength into a basin.
 
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Geoff. don't doubt your experience with frog hair, each to their own. Your quite right about weight in and out of water, but the stated breaking strain of a line is a test of its ability to withstand force expressed as a weight in air.
Test your frog hair, my experiments were quite clear with consistent results.

Agree with pinning it down and they way a river with some flow will lay the hooklength down, only difference is i use a water knot on the line and pinch the putty over that.
stewart
 
Youve missed my point geoff..The fluro makes your hook sit up off the bottom due to the stiffness of your hair. added weights make no difference along your hooklength..you really are gambling on your hook being in the right position which is no good..;)
 
I agree Craig, when fishing the Hants Avon which is very clear, flouro is the way ahead but I found the same problem! I get over it by tyeing the hair on with a braid whipping knot and then attach the hook to a flouro hook length with a grinner which I leave a tad short when tightening down to the eye of the hook allowing a really natural movement of the bait when a fish is browsing in the swim! When you get a take the knot pulls tight naturally. Works for me!
 
Hi keith..yes mate the problem is the actual hair if its fluro..I used to use those fox things you put on the hook and then just tie some braid to it for your hair but to be honest i just fish short braid hooklengths now on the hamps avon and dorset stour and catch a few barbel when they are about..Went off using fluro a few seasons ago no real big reason just down to personal choice..:)
 
Stewart Kemp said:
Hi
After reading this thread decided to buy some frog hair fluoro as it is much thinner than the korda iq i've been using with great success this year (five in my last session, 2 of which were doubles in 3.5 hours on the Kennet).

Since having probs with snapping up when using fluoro last year i always test new hooklengths to make sure i know what they can hold, here is my results.

Korda IQ 12lb (0.35mm)- Breaks at 12.1lb
Frog Hair 13.2lb (0.28mm)- Breaks at 8.8lb

Both snapped on the line not the knots, so it wasn't the fault of my tying and were tested a couple of times each

Will be going back to the IQ. It might be thicker but pinned down on the deck it works for me and the Kennet Barbel- Frog hair -be careful only seems to hold 2/3rds of its stated breaking strain.

Stewart
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That makes the penny drop for me after my experience of Frog Hair. Stopped using it after a few unexpected breaks and went back to Soft Ghost. I'm not actually that bothered if it's tow rope as long as it's reliable. Hopefully the fact that fluro is near invisible in water should negate the extra diameter. What it doesn't negate is the lack of limpness but it's a price I'll pay.

As for the issue of hooks sitting up, I'm not sure it is a big issue on the rivers I fish. As Geoff suggests, the decent flow levels of the Swale tends to straighten things out and force them to the bottom. I'll also speculate that the stiffness of fluro creates the kind of bent hook rig that carp anglers often strive for by using bent shrink tube. Something that some barbellers use on braid hooklinks. No need with stiffer fluro provided the line comes out of the eye of the hook to the front.

I also like the way that the less limp flurocarbons seem to result in a lot less tangles than I ever get with braid or thinner fluro without the need to resort to rig booms/sleeves etc.

The K.I.S.S. principle works for me.;):D
 
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Hi chris..I agree in some instances it wont make much difference such as weedy or silty bottoms but if its on gravel then it definately does..Obviously everyone has a different view point but i would rather be sure my hook is in the correct position rather than just hoping..:)
 
Craig lots of folk are fishing pop ups/moving baits successfully for barbel - why are you hung up on this bottom stuff anyway? p.s I also use fluoro mainline most of the time!
Chris if you are getting breaks with froghair you aint doin' it right mush.
Also worth considering chris is once fluoro has been used a few times the surface of fluorocarbon suffers from abrasion like all lines and suddenly becomes as visible as all other lines.
geoff
 
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I fished the wye this week and changed hook links a lot thru the sesh. I Caught barbs on old 12lb ESP ghost the stiff version 15lb mantis gold the coated one and also used 20lb power pro in green. All links except the power pro I used heavy putty on and The barbs chub and eels didn't seem to mind too much falling to different types and sizes of bait.

Getting stuck on one type until it fails is what everyone seems to do. I tend to use the horses for courses approach and play around to see what works and when depending on the nature of the swim water clarity riverbed etc.

Must agree with Craig on the hook position when using a stiff material for the hair mostly when using 2x 10mm or bigger pellets superglued to it, but as suggested I've found for the hair itself you can use anything softer to get around it.

For my usual approach on the Avon (mostly snaggy tight swims clear water gravel bottom) i use the mantis and peel the coating off for the hair but leave it on for the whipping on the knot
 
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Hi geoff..yes mate your quite right about pop ups but even then the hook is in the right position and usually the pop up is tight against the hook or side hooked..obviously if your fishing off the bottom then how your hook sits is no longer an issue but all im trying to say geoff is that if your fishing on the bottom then how your hook sits will make alot of difference..;)
 
Craig Wood said:
Hi chris..I agree in some instances it wont make much difference such as weedy or silty bottoms but if its on gravel then it definately does.:)
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For you on the rivers that you fish, perhaps. While it may occur as you suggest, even on the rivers I fish, I'm not in the least bit convinced it makes any difference to my catch rate. As suggested, I'd speculate that stiffer fluro actually creates a better angle and a kind of aligner rig too which may actually be a fringe benefit. It's nigh on impossible to be sure either way.

I'm all for keeping things simple. I've been guilty of overcomplicating rigs a bit in the past to no obvious benefit. I'm back to keeping things simple and not worrying about super fine diameters or extra limpness. It works for me.
 
Yes i would agree its impossible to know whats right or wrong because what works one day doesent work another!!!:eek:
 
Geoff Blakesley said:
Chris if you are getting breaks with froghair you aint doin' it right mush.
Also worth considering chris is once fluoro has been used a few times the surface of fluorocarbon suffers from abrasion like all lines and suddenly becomes as visible as all other lines.
geoff
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Geoff,
I was doing no different than I would quite successfully with other, thicker, fluro. There's little that anyone can say that is likely to change my mind, faith has been lost. I might be tempted to try it in higher breaking strains than I currently have but then the diameter and stiffness increases closer to the more usual suspects. I might just give it another go sometime, if I run out of alternatives, but if you ever encounter me on the bank you are welcome to the Frog Hair I have. Worst thing was that I coughed up for one of the higher capacity spools.:(
I'm sure that I'll swear by other items of tackle that others hate. If it works for them or the alternative works for me, so be it.
 
Thanks for that chris didn't know it came in 100m lengths until I just looked it up. Do they do above 10lb bs in that length?
I use a well moistened 5 turn grinner knot if that helps - ignore those that say it doesn't work with this knot.
geoff
 
Just tested the 10lb frog hair i'd bought at the same time, goes at 7lb every time.

Might be more relevant to look at the line diameter rather than get hung up with brand loyalty - (Probably all made in 1 or 2 factory's in the far east by almost identical methods anyway)

0.223mm - 7lb
0.279mm - 8.8lb
0.35mm - 12lb

Matchmen tend to describe their hooklengths by diameter rather than stated breaking strain, they probably have a point.

Have found my results improve dramatically since using fluoro on the kennet, started using elips around the same time which might explain it. Whatever gives us confidence.
Stewart
 
Hi All,

Richard Parsons mentioned to me the riverge soft plus fluoro so i purchased a spool of 13.7bs. which is only 023mm, very limp and soft material, tried it for the first time yesterday and hooked a very big barbel that put up a tremendous scrap but got it to the net ok so im impressed with the stuff:)

Be Lucky
 
Stewart Kemp said:
Just tested the 10lb frog hair i'd bought at the same time, goes at 7lb every time.

Might be more relevant to look at the line diameter rather than get hung up with brand loyalty - (Probably all made in 1 or 2 factory's in the far east by almost identical methods anyway)

0.223mm - 7lb
0.279mm - 8.8lb
0.35mm - 12lb

Matchmen tend to describe their hooklengths by diameter rather than stated breaking strain, they probably have a point.

Have found my results improve dramatically since using fluoro on the kennet, started using elips around the same time which might explain it. Whatever gives us confidence.
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,

The reason match fishermen started using line diameter rather than stated breaking strain of line is because there is no law governing the truth of the stated breaking strain or diameter of line...the manufacturer can claim what they like. As anglers were deemed to be much more concerned with the percieved strength of line than any other factor, the manufacturers started massively understating the true B/S of their products. Obviously, that meant that their (for instance) 10lb BS line appeared WAY stronger than the competition...when in fact their 10lb line was really anything up to 17lb b/s! Obviously, the competition soon caught on, and followed suit, hence we ended up with the ridiculous situation wherby ALL manufacturers line was hugely understated.

In the end, match fishermen started using the (checked) diameter of the line, because that bye and large was what dictated the supleness of the line, which in turn dictated how naturaly the bait behaved while a rig was being used...in particuler when trotting small baits such as maggots/casters/bread punch.

When fluoro came into the equasion, it was found to be unavoidably thicker than standard mono in any given breaking strain, so once again the manufacturers decided to lie to us, because they thought that the increased diameter would affect sales...so we now have the even more ridiculous situation where MOST mono is understated as regards claimed b/s, but all fluoro is overstated in claimed b/s !!!!

There has been an effort underway for some time now to get manufacturers to quote the accurate ratings of their lines, and to be fair, some have now done this. However, as others have so far failed to do this, we have at present an even MORE confused, mind boggling situation than ever before. The Tackle Box chart of tested line diameters and breaking strains, along with the claimed versions, was an absolute revelation in this field. Sadly, the version of this chart in the current catalogue is a much shorter shadow of it's former self, covering far fewer line manufacturers, and is thus less useful than it once was.

Worth keeping an older catalogue from them just for the chart...or nagging them to be nice to us again, lol. The on-line version may still be the more comprehensive original...take a a look, if you havent already seen it....utter madness on the part of the manufacturers...but nothing new there!

Cheers, Dave.
 
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