Fish Retention

[John Charlton]

for the newbies benefit

my post above is aimed at lads who are new to barbel fishing and aren't possibly member's of bfw.
i personally think if they can take some of what i wrote and use it then thats a bonus,i'm happy with my practice's and i'm certain that i act in the best interest of fish safety

 

[Neil Smart]

I appreciate that Howard, the point I was trying to make was it is a place to exchange views, exchange being the operative word. On a subject like retention there will never be a definitive answer as both sides of the argument have a certain validity.
It could be said that if we are that worried about the welfare of the fish then perhaps we should not be fishing for them in the first place.

God I would love a penny for every time I hear that comment, since we do practice catch and release, and since we have moved on and become much more aware of the need to handle Barbel correctly, I am really at a loss that such methods of retention are aired on here and at a greater loss that a few members actually support retaining Barbel at all!!

 

[Neil Smart]

my post above is aimed at lads who are new to barbel fishing and aren't possibly member's of bfw.
i personally think if they can take some of what i wrote and use it then thats a bonus,i'm happy with my practice's and i'm certain that i act in the best interest of fish safety

Yes and I am sure that would be the opinion of the majority on here John, thanks.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

I have just re read this thread with all it's twists and turns . I have decided that Mr Hamlyn you are a wind up merchant !It was the comment about using stringers for retaining fish that did it for me .What is a little bit annoying is that good folks on here spend a deal of time answering your queries at face value , when really you are just trying to get some sort of ' debate ' going on a contencious issue. In essence you light the blue touch paper , kick back and watch things develop . I don't suppose you mean any harm and it's just a bit of fun but eventually I think the anglers on this forum will get a bit bored with the joke . This said some of your posts can be amusing

 

[Neil Smart]

Stringers? must have missed that one, yep a WUM

 

[Simon Lush]

[/B]
God I would love a penny for every time I hear that comment, since we do practice catch and release, and since we have moved on and become much more aware of the need to handle Barbel correctly, I am really at a loss that such methods of retention are aired on here and at a greater loss that a few members actually support retaining Barbel at all!!

You have to retain em in some way Mr Smart if you want to photograph them ( the gallery pages are full to brimming with people who found that 'necessary') so the original post and discussion is very valid, whats the best and safest method ? well to me i would sooner keep a Barbel in a sack for a few minutes than have one flapping around in a landing net mesh any longer than was necessary, is that CLEAR enough or are you still at a loss ?

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Ian,

Thanks once again for the comprehensive post. Firstly I have yet to put a Barbel in a sack, as I quite simply have not caught one large enough to warrant making a fuss about getting a photo, so there is no need to frogmarch me from the waters you bailiff. However where I fish there are no rules about retaining Barbel hence the reason for my post. You make some good points regarding Carp and Barbel and also the environment they are living in, unfortunately this opens up the discussion and introduces many variables which makes it difficult to be sure. What would be acceptable and humane in a fast flowing river would not necessarily transfer to still waters or rivers that are so slow moving that they might as well be still waters.

I notice that articles about Mahseer fishing recommend using a "stringer" which seems to be a cord passed through the gill cover and out of the mouth and then the fish is tethered for as long as it takes to recover without any restriction of the amount of oxygenated water it receives. As a Barbel looks like a smaller version of a Mahseer to me would this work?

There you go Neil .Stringers , the way ahead ?

 

[Simon Lush]

some good food for thought here and i can see the argument for using a net or a tube
never thought i'd say that!
now the fishes safety is paramount to me but i won't be carrying either a tube or keepnet with me!
when i land a barbel no matter of it's size i unhook in the water if i've got a shallow bank to the water and leave it upright(important)
small barbel don't usually need as much time to recover but just incase get it.
the bigger fish one i might weigh for instance usually do and i'll peg my net down and sort the weighing scales and camera out.
the fish as a quick weigh and picture and then put back in the net to recover.
if the bank is high to the water it makes things tricky but same again i leave the fish in the net for 5 mins but with the hook still in.
i then unhook it on my mat and weigh if NECESSARY,now im going to prattle on about kudos again here!
i wouldn't ever put a fish under any undue stress if possible as i'm sure most other angler's wouldn't.
very contradictory what im going to say but if i couldn't ENSURE a fishes safety then i wouldn't claim a record(witnesses needed)
i was fortunate enough to catch a couple of very special fish the first i was with a friend who did the honours
the 2nd i was on my own and the said friend was 20 mins away now the area i fished had a lovely shallow gravel area and i rested the fish upright there while waiting!
i didn't carry on fishing i was stood in the water and alongside the fish till my friend arrived.i never took my eyes of the fish and she remained upright and comfortable.
if i'd of been on a high bank i wouldn't of done the same,she'd of been rested as said previous and back she'd go.
now using a net or a sack can you keep a proper check on the fish?

would they have hole's big enough to allow oxegen to pass through their gills?

in summer these practices are even more important due to warm water,low oxegen,poor conditioning of fish due to spawning.

richard mention's playing fish hard and to this a agree the sooner they are netted the better for the fish!

a barbel will fight to the net possibly the reason why we fish for them!
apparently the acid's in their bellys effect their balance after a long fight and that's why they go belly up.

John, thats a valid viewpoint but i'm afraid that the bit about catching Barbel in low flows /low Oxygen levels and in poor condition post spawning kind of contradicts all the fish care you extoll! Most people i fish with purposely leave them alone at such times, in fact one even used to close the stretch he controlled altogether to prevent problems.

 

[Adrian Williams]

You have to retain em in some way Mr Smart if you want to photograph them ( the gallery pages are full to brimming with people who found that 'necessary') so the original post and discussion is very valid, whats the best and safest method ? well to me i would sooner keep a Barbel in a sack for a few minutes than have one flapping around in a landing net mesh any longer than was necessary, is that CLEAR enough or are you still at a loss ?

It's all a bit academic anyway, in order to retain them you first have to catch them.

 

[Neil Smart]

You have to retain em in some way Mr Smart if you want to photograph them ( the gallery pages are full to brimming with people who found that 'necessary') so the original post and discussion is very valid, whats the best and safest method ? well to me i would sooner keep a Barbel in a sack for a few minutes than have one flapping around in a landing net mesh any longer than was necessary, is that CLEAR enough or are you still at a loss ?

Thank you Mr Lush
However that is for you, however I am of the opinion that the best method would be to land and return without the need to retain it in a sack tube keep net or any other such device. Oh and if there is a need to photograph them out of the landing net and snap away, if you have to weigh them out of the net into the sling. If they need to be rested, and they will, retain them in the landing net.
So simple and I hope clear enough.

 

[Neil Smart]

It's all a bit academic anyway, in order to retain them you first have to catch them.

Yes a good point, and that seems to be the problem here I guess...

 

[Simon Lush]

Thank you Mr Lush
However that is for you, however I am of the opinion that the best method would be to land and return without the need to retain it in a sack tube keep net or any other such device. Oh and if there is a need to photograph them out of the landing net and snap away, if you have to weigh them out of the net into the sling. If they need to be rested, and they will, retain them in the landing net.
So simple and I hope clear enough.

So, back for another stint in the landing net then? Yep,very clear !

 

[Richard Hamlyn]

I have just re read this thread with all it's twists and turns . I have decided that Mr Hamlyn you are a wind up merchant !It was the comment about using stringers for retaining fish that did it for me .What is a little bit annoying is that good folks on here spend a deal of time answering your queries at face value , when really you are just trying to get some sort of ' debate ' going on a contencious issue. In essence you light the blue touch paper , kick back and watch things develop . I don't suppose you mean any harm and it's just a bit of fun but eventually I think the anglers on this forum will get a bit bored with the joke . This said some of your posts can be amusing

Mike,

Let’s stop being so precious shall we. Yes I like a wind up as much as the next man, why not; it is an important part of our character and days at work and nights down the pub would be all the poorer if we did not take the p**s out of each other from time to time. It is good humoured and harmless and in my experience anglers are some of the best exponents of this noble art and long may it continue.

If you thought my comments about “stringers†was serious then there is little chance of us ever seeing eye to eye. However I believe that the bulk of people who read my scribbling understand that the content is a mixture if seriousness and flippancy, the latter often used to underline the point I am making.

There are some excellent posters on here who freely pass on their considerable experience and thoughts, and happily post them to be discussed. The subject matter is then often approached from a different direction which adds to the debate. One person says it’s wrong to put Barbel in a keep net and another points out that keep net design has moved on a lot in recent times and that we may need to re-visit this. I consider this to be an excellent exchange of views.

What does grip my washer is the pomposity of some people who seem to think that Barbel fishing is in some way different from other forms of angling. “Fill your keep nets with carp and bream if you must, but treat the Prince of the Stream with more respect†is but one example. Another is the salmon angler who throws the accidentally caught chub up the bank because they are vermin. Judging by some posts on here the former statement would be considered informed and the latter an example of an idiot; but in reality they are just different versions of the same ignorance.

Real anglers treat ALL fish, ALL other creatures, and the environments they live in with respect.

Then we have the hypocrisy of the angler who thinks catching a Barbel close to spawning is the equivalent of murdering every egg, sitting alongside advising that now is the optimum time to catch a big perch as they are full of spawn. I would respectfully suggest that you can’t have it both ways.
If I can construct a post in such a way as to get the ill-informed angler to wear the caps that I place before them then I do not consider this a disservice.

Adrian has correctly, without naming names, highlighted a man who fronts a prominent single species group who when informed that an angler had caught a river record while fishing illegally at night was prepared to forget all the fishery rules and stuff it in a sack until he could get there. How does this sit with their code of practise?

Perhaps Scuba Steve has the right idea…..if you don’t like my posts then apply the filter thingy so you don’t have to read them……however I have no intention of changing so read on at your peril.

 

[Steve Williams]

Perhaps Scuba Steve has the right idea…..if you don’t like my posts then apply the filter thingy so you don’t have to read them……however I have no intention of changing so read on at your peril.

(Un)fortunately, as a moderator, I have the privilege of reading everyone's posts Richard.....regardless as to whether I think they are complete dribble or not....but as you say, I'd advise anyone who finds another poster's posts 'irritating', simply hit the 'ignore' button.....
Of course if a post offends or breaks a BFW 'rule', you can report it via the report button, that way all moderates and site admin will be alerted to the problem.

Mike,
you are a wise old owl.....


Steve

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Mike,

Let’s stop being so precious shall we. Yes I like a wind up as much as the next man, why not; it is an important part of our character and days at work and nights down the pub would be all the poorer if we did not take the p**s out of each other from time to time. It is good humoured and harmless and in my experience anglers are some of the best exponents of this noble art and long may it continue.

If you thought my comments about “stringers†was serious then there is little chance of us ever seeing eye to eye. However I believe that the bulk of people who read my scribbling understand that the content is a mixture if seriousness and flippancy, the latter often used to underline the point I am making.

There are some excellent posters on here who freely pass on their considerable experience and thoughts, and happily post them to be discussed. The subject matter is then often approached from a different direction which adds to the debate. One person says it’s wrong to put Barbel in a keep net and another points out that keep net design has moved on a lot in recent times and that we may need to re-visit this. I consider this to be an excellent exchange of views.

What does grip my washer is the pomposity of some people who seem to think that Barbel fishing is in some way different from other forms of angling. “Fill your keep nets with carp and bream if you must, but treat the Prince of the Stream with more respect†is but one example. Another is the salmon angler who throws the accidentally caught chub up the bank because they are vermin. Judging by some posts on here the former statement would be considered informed and the latter an example of an idiot; but in reality they are just different versions of the same ignorance.

Real anglers treat ALL fish, ALL other creatures, and the environments they live in with respect.

Then we have the hypocrisy of the angler who thinks catching a Barbel close to spawning is the equivalent of murdering every egg, sitting alongside advising that now is the optimum time to catch a big perch as they are full of spawn. I would respectfully suggest that you can’t have it both ways.
If I can construct a post in such a way as to get the ill-informed angler to wear the caps that I place before them then I do not consider this a disservice.

Adrian has correctly, without naming names, highlighted a man who fronts a prominent single species group who when informed that an angler had caught a river record while fishing illegally at night was prepared to forget all the fishery rules and stuff it in a sack until he could get there. How does this sit with their code of practise?

Perhaps Scuba Steve has the right idea…..if you don’t like my posts then apply the filter thingy so you don’t have to read them……however I have no intention of changing so read on at your peril.

Richard , not being precious at all ,you carry on with your hybrid p**s / serious posts , I will enjoy trying to decipher them . If your intention was to highlight hypocrisy in angling then why not call your thread such ? Clearly a number of us are not picking up on the subtleties of your approach .

 

[John Young]

What is this obsession with you that you feel to put the Barbel's welfare after the need to take a picture of the thing?

its not a "thing" its somthing I have spent my life in pursuit of, anf if I want to I will photograph my river record.

In my opinion any method of retaining Barbel is asking for trouble, they are not as robust as Carp, keep nets, sacking, tubes whatever you like to mention just does not cut it.

I think Barbel will do just fine in a tube.

But then again some like the Kudos thing I suppose what rocks your boat? Is it a good double fish Barbel pictured with the Rolex wearing Angler eh?

don't know where that "smart" comment has come from, unless you are referring to the river bailiff's old jewellery profession?

Bet your a plastic Man U too.

Now I am learning how "smart " you are. I went to a school that played Rugby and so love that sport and I am afreaid not football. So again your assumptions of me are wrong again , Like I said you get some on every forum

 

[Neil Smart]

So, back for another stint in the landing net then? Yep,very clear !

No if at all possible it is better to keep the barbel in the landing net rather than swapping it around other devices, it cuts down stress for the fish and of course keeps it out of the water to a minimum. It probably makes sense to carefully weigh the fish in the net if you have a suitable net such as a large oval rather than a sling.
Common sense I would have thought, and as I said barbel are not as robust as carp, and it does seem that some on here have transferred their carp handling ways to barbel.
Keep it simple stupid
K.I.S.S.

 

[John Charlton]

John, thats a valid viewpoint but i'm afraid that the bit about catching Barbel in low flows /low Oxygen levels and in poor condition post spawning kind of contradicts all the fish care you extoll! Most people i fish with purposely leave them alone at such times, in fact one even used to close the stretch he controlled altogether to prevent problems.

very true simon and if they were spawning i wouldn't be fishing for them!!
especially the big females who will be at their lower weight's and lesser condition than the horny males.
my post was general about condition's and i don't say fish for them while they are spawning.(i'm talking about after spawning when they've done they're bit and need time to recover and recondition)

 

[Adrian Williams]

Why are you so aggressive John? If you dislike forums so much why do you keep coming back on them and tormenting yourself all the time?
You could try fishing somewhere away from the same couple of swims on the Goyt and get a bit more perspective on the world.

 

[Richard Hamlyn]

and as I said barbel are not as robust as carp, and it does seem that some on here have transferred their carp handling ways to barbel.
Keep it simple stupid
K.I.S.S.

Barbel are not as robust as carp..........

Does this mean we need a sliding scale of fish treatment depending on their "robustness" rating, or would it be better to treat all fish in the optimum manner?