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EA Close Season Consultation

Rhys Perry said:
If they pay a 12 month lease they must have the game rights as well, I know some leases are only for 9 months if it's just coarse rights.
Tackle shops are not closing because of the close season.
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Correct Rhys, but the game fishing brings minimal income for the club, We sell a game fishing permit for Throop and have 6 members who buy it bringing in £215.
Nobody is saying that tackle shops are specifically closing because of the close season but river anglers buying bait etc may help some stay open.
 
Declining trade may be part of the reason for the closure of local tackle shoos but ever increasing rents and soaring business rates are a significant factor as well. Most tackle shops never made a fortune, not helped by the seasonal nature of the trade, but managed to get by. However, that is becoming increasingly difficult, hence the closures.


Dave
 
Add to all that the difficulty and expense of parking. My local tackle shop now has a bus lane outside and the council car park opposite, used to be free, then started charging and now it's two blocks of flats. It's on a parade of shops where parking is limited to say the least. I now only go after 4.30pm when the residents only parking restrictions round the corner finishes.
It's often cheaper and more convenient to pay delivery charges and buy online.
 
Slight change of tack here but my local river, the Hants Avon is currently running at a temperature of over 9c, having been as low as 3c at the beginning of the month. The temperature has risen steadily through the month and with more unseasonably warm weather still to come, is likely to stay at these more Spring like temperatures for a while yet. Is this likely to lead to early spawning by some of the resident coarse fish species and could that be a problem, should we suddenly have another cold snap (Beast from the East 2 perhaps!)?

Just wondering if anyone can shed any light on how such temperature variations can affect spawning and its success? It also potentially reminds us that while we may have issues with late spawning after cold springs, we may also have early spawning in mild winters.


Dave
 
The rising temperature is a large factor for breeding but day length is also a large factor. I suspect the Perch like fishes that naturally spawn early will now be at it.
 
not my thoughts but a good point of view on the close season from a river match angler


The river close season debate. Here are my thoughts on the subject. I believe the close season should be scrapped.
Commercial reasons… I am going to use the ri...ver Severn as an example to explain my thoughts. Let’s look at the finances of the clubs that control the fishing rights. Currently we can’t fish for 3 months or 25% of the year. On average the river will be un-fishable mainly in the winter for lets say 8 weeks due to high water levels or another 16% of the year. In the winter lots of fish migrate into the bigger towns on the river Shrewsbury and Stourport for example leaving the countryside sections of river not worth bothering with. So with 25% of time lost to the close season plus 16% high water levels makes 41% in lost time. To summarize a fishing club would make at least 30% more money from peg fees if there were no close season. That is 30% more to spend on renovating pegs, better access, Predation control, and re-stocking etc.
More younger people on the bank… It’s a fact there are not too many younger anglers fishing rivers, Why? Well 41% of the time they can’t go for the above reasons. Easter is upon us! the clocks go forward, the weather is warmer. It’s the perfect time to take kids fishing after been stuck indoors all winter. Well the rivers are shut so a commercial fishery is were they go
.
Spawning… Who knows were the fish spawn on our rivers I don’t. If we fished in the close season we would find out more about were they spawn and the controlling clubs can monitor and close the section of river if they feel the need. I would think there would be a shed load of cormorants accompanying the spawning fish. Anyway looking at commercials the fish don’t feed much when they are spawning so they are unlikely to be caught.
Predation… Fish stocks are damaged by predation not anglers. An average cormorant eats about 1lb of fish per day they reckon. In money terms 4 x 4 oz roach would cost you about £3 to restock from a fish farmer. Just 1 cormorant in 1 year = £1095 to restock the fish It’s scoffed. How many cormorants are there? An estimated 35 thousand in the country I heard. My sums say that 38 million quids worth of course fish, and they are worried about over fishing lol. Yea get real.
To summarize.. The close season needs to be scrapped. Controlling clubs on each river need to communicate with each other. Perhaps this could be done through some sort of organisation. Clubs need to be smart with the extra money coming there way. Check out this fantastic video .. The Avon Roach Project. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obVsnPP5cNY And use your imagination of what is possible going forward
More money! More resources! Better fishing
 
I really don't like fishing in the rain, and up here it rains a lot! Can I claim back pro rata those days on which I am not able to fish at the end of the season? Or perhaps at the end of the year given some sunny weather, I could pay more and the club can repair the banks?
How long has fishing been the same? Why now do we feel the need to complain about the 3 months during which we can't fish? Or can't accept the winter weather?
It's really like reverting back to the terrible twos, when as youngsters we try to impress upon our environment, our wants and our needs, to test the water and see how much we get back.
Part of being balanced human beings is in accepting that sometimes we do not get to have our own way, and that we accept the way of nature. I really do wonder what next?
Engage with the environment in which you find yourself, don't try to get it to conform to your needs - it kinda doesn't work!
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I really don't like fishing in the rain, and up here it rains a lot! Can I claim back pro rata those days on which I am not able to fish at the end of the season? Or perhaps at the end of the year given some sunny weather, I could pay more and the club can repair the banks?
How long has fishing been the same? Why now do we feel the need to complain about the 3 months during which we can't fish? Or can't accept the winter weather?
It's really like reverting back to the terrible twos, when as youngsters we try to impress upon our environment, our wants and our needs, to test the water and see how much we get back.
Part of being balanced human beings is in accepting that sometimes we do not get to have our own way, and that we accept the way of nature. I really do wonder what next?
Engage with the environment in which you find yourself, don't try to get it to conform to your needs - it kinda doesn't work!
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Is there evidence for that?
 
Damian Kimmins said:
How long has fishing been the same? Why now do we feel the need to complain about the 3 months during which we can't fish? Or can't accept the winter weather?
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Good point this, I don't ever recall anyone complaining about the close season when I was young.
We do now live in a time where we expect everything on a plate.
 
Time and tide wait for no man, things change, thats a fact of life. Been driving a hackney cab for over 33 years, now, Liverpool city council, are trying to force through, that every cab in the city, must be able to accept card payments. ( i already do ). The close season needs a total reform, to fit in with today's rivers/fishes welfare, things aren't what they where, when the closed season was introduced over 100 years ago. Time to move on.
 
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Derek Funcks said:
Time and tide wait for no man, things change, thats a fact of life. Been driving a hackney cab for over 33 years, now, Liverpool city council, are trying to force through, that every cab in the city, must be able to accept card payments. ( i already do ). The close season needs a total reform, to fit in with today's rivers/fishes welfare, things aren't what they where, when the closed season was introduced over 100 years ago. Time to move on.
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Man needs to adjust his way of thinking about today's rivers, not just, 'I'm fed up with today's rivers let's just fish year round!'
WHAT is fishing? People today are so willing to brush over their own idleness their own inability to engage with who we are and where we are from that sitting on an overstocked lake with an electric hook up, cafe and shop constitutes fishing. That's just intravenously feeding yourself creature comforts whilst you are outdoors!
Man is so engrossed with itself and it's own needs it has missed the point that viewed from the point of view of homo sapiens, the natural world is who we are, not detached masters of it!
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Man needs to adjust his way of thinking about today's rivers, not just, 'I'm fed up with today's rivers let's just fish year round!'
WHAT is fishing? People today are so willing to brush over their own idleness their own inability to engage with who we are and where we are from that sitting on an overstocked lake with an electric hook up, cafe and shop constitutes fishing. That's just intravenously feeding yourself creature comforts whilst you are outdoors!
Man is so engrossed with itself and it's own needs it has missed the point that viewed from the point of view of homo sapiens, the natural world is who we are, not detached masters of it!
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Damian, you quoted my post, why??? I always try to fit in and engage, and abide by the rules. I haven't fished a commercial for as long as i can remember, i love nothing better than " natural " fishing. My last outing, was standing in the middle of the River Mersey at low tide, in the snow, at night time. I will ALWAYS put fish welfare BEFORE my own needs.

P.S. do you live in a cave ? just asking ;););)
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Man needs to adjust his way of thinking about today's rivers, not just, 'I'm fed up with today's rivers let's just fish year round!'
WHAT is fishing? People today are so willing to brush over their own idleness their own inability to engage with who we are and where we are from that sitting on an overstocked lake with an electric hook up, cafe and shop constitutes fishing. That's just intravenously feeding yourself creature comforts whilst you are outdoors!
Man is so engrossed with itself and it's own needs it has missed the point that viewed from the point of view of homo sapiens, the natural world is who we are, not detached masters of it!
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Fishing is a pleasure and an indulgence, people work hard to do such things. What is wrong with that and who are you to tell people how they feel and what they can and can't do..are you the messiah:D

The debate is whether the close season serves its purpose, that's all. Myself lIke many others feels it doesn't and angling as a whole will benefit from removing it. After all if it hadn't been removed from stillwaters and canals angling could now have been in a very different place with a massive reduction in those taking part in angling. Perhaps that is what you want, if so why do you fish at all?

River fishing is in terminal decline with many rivers barely seeing an angler, anything that can keep anglers fishing rivers needs to be looked at.
 
Why didn't you complain about this 20 years ago? Is it because you struggle to catch fish and you need your quota of barbel to feel satiated?
Do you think, walking round an overstocked commercial pond, with rather sad looking, damaged fish being caught day in and day out, that is fishing?
Its like being a swinger and saying, 'I really love my missus!'
River fishing is in decline. That's most likely because anglers have been filling their boots on the size of the fish they've been catching, looking for notoriety, and completely removing the importance of those fish from their environment, and into that of their own - like some watery bitcoin! They didn't realise however, that things weren't that good in the real world! And here we are, still not able to understand that in order to appreciate the natural world, all you need to do is understand that having and have not is just the way things are, and when we are in accordance with that is when we are happiest.
Not catching fish gives meaning to catching them.

To be honest I think this is a futile debate, I sincerely feel that for the most part, man doesn't really know its ar*e from its elbow - in England some cities are already breathing in an illegal toxic atmosphere, in 25 years at the present rate of population increase we will run out of water, essentially meaning that the rivers of the country will be just full of p*ss and sh*t, just slightly more than they are today perhaps, as they too are failing water quality tests, and yet all we can talk about is the need of an income from the EU as if the money generated is the answer to everything!
 
so in your eyes Damian its not about fishing and the close season its to do with the way man leads his life and the lack of self control we exert?

also I don't barbel fish nowadays and over 30 years ago when there was a close season I used to fish a Stillwater for trout but always managed to catch carp and always wanted the rivers to be open.

also the majority of commercials are very well run with fish welfare very high. for an example if fishing in the close impacted spawning what this all about why do commercials have to constantly remove fish because there lakes become over stocked?
 
Jason Bean said:
so in your eyes Damian its not about fishing and the close season its to do with the way man leads his life and the lack of self control we exert?

also I don't barbel fish nowadays and over 30 years ago when there was a close season I used to fish a Stillwater for trout but always managed to catch carp and always wanted the rivers to be open.

also the majority of commercials are very well run with fish welfare very high. for an example if fishing in the close impacted spawning what this all about why do commercials have to constantly remove fish because there lakes become over stocked?
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Hi Damien,
As a pensioner I can assure you that the' close season' has been discussed for over 60 years, it's discussion is not a new 'phenomenon ' at all. I imagine it has been discussed and argued about by anglers since its introduction. Intelligent discussion is healthy, it diverts us from 'discussing ' Brexit'.
 
Hi men

What is fishing ? , i tell what it is , its a very broad church that should be inclusive to all levels of abilities, all levels of participation , all ages , and all views . We can be seen by many of being quite elitists , often quite old fasioned , without a doubt missing a trick of encouraging kids into it other than carp fishing . There are many problems in the world , many problems in angling , but a rule made before cars and planes , when fish were mainly taken for eating needs looking at , and not through rose coloured glasses .

Hatter
 
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Damian Kimmins said:
To be honest I think this is a futile debate, I sincerely feel that for the most part, man doesn't really know its ar*e from its elbow
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With respect (yes, I'm ahead of you there), IMO no debate is "futile" if it makes people stop and think. Very few rules should be 'written in stone' ... it's reasonable for us as humans to reason (as in, 'mull over'). In debates people often enter into discussion with entrenched views, which may be expressed ad nausium. But we humans do have the power to reflect, consider, weigh up and ... ultimately, eventually ... change our minds, or even better, end up with a more open mind which is ready to truly listen.
IMO there's no 'right' or 'wrong' in this debate, but there is a lot of unknown variables. From this we could conclude : so let's try 12 months fishing for (say) 5 years, and see what the result is. But how would we measure that result? I think at best we'd end up with a mere wobbly guesstimation.
One thing that would be measurable though would be a positive feedback from the tackle trade, but I'm not sure whether this is a facet of the equation that should even be considered. I believe that this debate/argument should be SOLELY about fish welfare, not the welfare of tackle traders (going by the impact of on-line shopping on the High Street, tackle shops are going to continue and increasingly suffering anyway ... outside of caster/maggot/worm sales etc).
My view, for what it's worth : On balance I believe that removing the close season is most likely to provide benefit to the angler and tackle trader rather than the fish, otherwise I don't believe we would be having this discussion. Therefore I'm resistant to change.
If fish welfare was absolutely paramount then the close season would extended, to cover 99% of the (potential) spawning period (e.g Feb-July!) No, I'm not advocating this ... but there is some truth (and sense) in it. One thing I would advocate though is 'Safe Havens' : known spawning sites being 'Red Flagged'. Bailiffs etc know where (many of) these sites are. The creation of such 'Havens' could result in the best of all worlds ... IMHO (maybe in addition to possibly a shorter close season).
It's a consultation, and I think anglers should be consulted. And in my opinion, discussion is never futile ... only seemingly futile at times.

BTW "Its like being a swinger and saying, 'I really love my missus!'". Woooooh, where did that one come from? "Love" is a subjective term with wide ranging definitions, many 'loves' are based on 'felt needs' and insecurities (e.g. "I need you, therefore it must be love"). To say that swinging couples don't actually/can't love each other ... that's a tad sweeping, damning, and somewhat dismissively elitist IMO. Just sayin'.
 
To me it's fairly simple.

Do I truly believe that allowing anglers to fish on rivers whilst fish are spawning, will impact on recruitment due interference.

The answer is yes. I do believe it will.

The commercial lake etc. Argument is flawed as the fish are a commodity that can be adjusted at will.

No so our precious rivers.

There are plenty of other opportunities for those that must fish.

Commercials. Sea. Trout. Even overseas where the emphasis is generally away from coarse fish and they are rarely targetted.

Why risk it?
 
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