Will Smith
Senior Member
I'm still not sure Robbo. This thread went just a little bit "off-topic" since I first posted but thanks for your late input into the discussion 
. How was Mars this time of year?
. How was Mars this time of year?
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BAA Guide to Waters 2012 Cover Image
- Thread starter Will Smith
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John Robbins
Senior Member
Mars was quite warm but I even blanked there. I've actually got these BAA books going back decades, in the old days ,pre BC, (Barbel change) they used to be quite specific aboutthe fish you could catch at each venue, I know they do a bit of that now, but for such things as Pike certain areas will always be good for certain fish like them and the info remains true today.
Will Smith
Senior Member
...so that's the secret of your success !
!
Lawrence Breakspear
Senior Member
The BAA, frankly haven't got a clue what is in their waters or how and when to fish them, they once showed Howard Maddocks fish within a guide, no doubt trying to insinuate it was caught from one of their lower Severn stretches, as we all know it wasnt. That aside, even though they have given up on a lot of their waters the card is still good value, it has to be said that the BAA could do with a shake up and they need to understand what people want, as it stands its just a business now, a business I feel that is badly run and in decline, and is representative of very few Anglers, and I believe that they are daft enough and naive to think that by putting a nice looking woman on the front of the guide would sell more copies and introduce more non members to the Association, I have been a paying member of the BAA for 40 odd years and it has never been so bad frankly, their waters are poorly maintained, un-bailifed and left to their own devices and nature with disastrous results, but will I buy a card for next year? Of course I will.....
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Lol. Thats because the membership fees are too cheap. Better twice as much and the additional funds specifically used to baliff and enhance the waters.
Joined and fished the waters a few times. Dismayed at the filth and rubbish left on the banks.
I'm voting Scuba to take it over. - Kinvers. well run, tidy, good swims, great comms.
Costs twice as much for 10 percent of the waters - Full up!
Amazed at all the fuss about a Pretty Lass with a tattoo.
Graham
Joined and fished the waters a few times. Dismayed at the filth and rubbish left on the banks.
I'm voting Scuba to take it over.
- Kinvers. well run, tidy, good swims, great comms.Costs twice as much for 10 percent of the waters - Full up!
Amazed at all the fuss about a Pretty Lass with a tattoo.
Graham
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Steve Williams
Senior Member
Lol. Thats because the membership fees are too cheap. Better twice as much and the additional funds specifically used to baliff and enhance the waters.
Joined and fished the waters a few times. Dismayed at the filth and rubbish left on the banks.
I'm voting Scuba to take it over.
Costs twice as much for 10 percent of the waters - Full up!
Amazed at all the fuss about a Pretty Lass with a tattoo.
Graham
Cheers for the kind comments G, for the right price, I'm available....
Steve
Philip Dyson
Member
Mark, I missed this yesturday
Are you referring to my jokes.......your woman........or the sheep
David, I must be getting old, I could only think of two types of 'joints' at first.
The one we eat on a Sunday roast......and the ones in my bones that ache
Possibly, but we could do with a few sample pictures first ..........don't tell Lynn i asked to look
So am I Graham,they should try living with her sometimes
The old ones are always the best
Are you referring to my jokes.......your woman........or the sheep
You get free joints with your membership
Ahh...no, there's a speck on my screen which I thought was a comma
Cheers, Dave.
David, I must be getting old, I could only think of two types of 'joints' at first.
The one we eat on a Sunday roast......and the ones in my bones that ache
Right good on you, actually, I have a few pics of a next door (literally) bikini clad girl photo shoot I helped take for my son's college work, taken last May at BAA Broadwas.
Do you think I could negotiate a lifetime membership?
Possibly, but we could do with a few sample pictures first ..........don't tell Lynn i asked to look
So am I Graham,they should try living with her sometimes
Lawrence Breakspear
Senior Member
Graham I think you are dead right, it does (The BAA) need some dynamism, this unfortunately the existing committee will never bring, the BAA survives off people like me who buy the yearly ticket out of habit as much as anything and strangely enough, it is part of my heritage as I can remember the glory days , I would hate to see the old girl go, there are enough well run clubs and associations out there that proves it can be done, get the right team and the right individual ( yes like our Steve) the BAA could be a flag ship organisation......but we are dreaming im afraid, until certain people leave it will never change.
Lee Poultney
Senior Member
Unfortunately, most of the people who remember the 'good old days' are still there.
Lawrence Breakspear
Senior Member
That's the problem Lee, I think its a comfort zone now for some, but when I talk of the good old days, I refer to the time when the BAA stood for something, it always looked on Anglers like me as a pain in the butt, with me and my friends being the specialist angler, that concentrated on the bigger fish, it was always a battle, we had campaigned for years about the litter situation, and how it attracted the wrong type of member, it was always match dominated, and the odd meeting I went to was a complete waste of time, I remember going to a meeting once to get permission to fish one of their still waters for Eels, we wanted a night permit, the view was that any angler that night fished was some kind of poacher, or barbarian of some kind. In my opinion it needs young vibrant leadership, but perhaps its too late, how many anglers will be fishing the rivers in 30 years time, by today's standards, very few
Dean Aston
Senior Member
What was the eel water Lol . Think BAA need to move with the times and the live bait didnt help much not fished there waters for a few years as to many idiots for my liking on the waters.
. Think BAA need to move with the times and the live bait didnt help much not fished there waters for a few years as to many idiots for my liking on the waters.
Lawrence Breakspear
Senior Member
The Water was Uckinghall Pool, we had numerous fish out up to 4 as I remember, no huge fish, but at the time it looked it could produce a 6.
Philip Dyson
Member
What was the eel water Lol
Dean, you must be very lucky and fish some very exclusive waters
. We fish at least 3 out of every 4 weekends from March to November and see very little difference between the BAA waters and any other day ticket venues.Before joining the BAA 3 years ago, we fished our first season on the Severn fishing only day ticket waters, none of them being BAA and kinvers being one that we fished regularly.Believe me,the amount of times we fished and never saw a bailiff, bearing in mind we were fishing it on a 'pay on the bank' day ticket.
Sorry Steve
I think that fishing venues that are full of idiots and rubbish is just a sign of the times.......all be it a shame
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
Ah...the good old days. As I was telling Steve only the other day, a Kinver stretch of the canal was the very first bit of water me and my mates where kicked off from for fishing without a permit! Only 12 at the time and this is back in 19??, everything was in black and white and most of my mates dad's made "things" for a living.Before joining the BAA 3 years ago, we fished our first season on the Severn fishing only day ticket waters, none of them being BAA and kinvers being one that we fished regularly.Believe me,the amount of times we fished and never saw a bailiff, bearing in mind we were fishing it on a 'pay on the bank' day ticket.
Sorry Steve
You did used to get caught by bailiffs in those days, because match anglers fished on the canals and rivers. The clubs were run by and for match angling and despite some of the conflicts this was for the betterment of rivers IMO.
It is the absence of match men from the river side that is a bad thing for the rivers. They were the ones who gave up their time and energy to be on committee's, bailiff waters, go on work parties, clean up litter etc. Rather than the specialist angler.
Not being a match angler myself I was as responsible as any. I didn't bother every going to a committee meeting of the BAA in all the years I was a member of it and despite everything it was the BAA that gave me an opportunity to fish (legally) on hundreds of rivers, lakes etc. in the Midlands and Wales. My first Chub, Barbel, Trout, Pike, Salmon and Grayling were all caught from BAA waters. In those days, for a couple of quid extra on your ticket you had some of the best salmon beats on the Severn...a working man could go salmon fishing because of the BAA. Was there any where else in the country where this was possible?
My wish is for matches to return to rivers as the match angler has always been the backbone of coarse angling and the clubs, associations that make it possible for the rest of us.
That's my patriotic, civic Brummie pride over, I can now go back to complaining about the rubbish left in the swims and the stupid PC ban on live baiting, just in case John Williams thinks I'm going soft
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Steve Williams
Senior Member
Dean, you must be very lucky and fish some very exclusive waters
Before joining the BAA 3 years ago, we fished our first season on the Severn fishing only day ticket waters, none of them being BAA and kinvers being one that we fished regularly.Believe me,the amount of times we fished and never saw a bailiff, bearing in mind we were fishing it on a 'pay on the bank' day ticket.
Sorry Steve
I think that fishing venues that are full of idiots and rubbish is just a sign of the times.......all be it a shame
I'd be interested in knowing which water of ours you fished Philip?
By PM if you prefer....
Steve
Steve Williams
Senior Member
I have to disagree somewhat Pete.
Taking my club as an example, I feel it has improved since the 'match' fishing side of things disappeared....
OK, only one example I know, but as a general rule, I've always felt that match men and match oriented clubs a little selfish...or is that just me being selfish....
Steve
Taking my club as an example, I feel it has improved since the 'match' fishing side of things disappeared....
OK, only one example I know, but as a general rule, I've always felt that match men and match oriented clubs a little selfish...or is that just me being selfish....
Steve
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
Your club may be an exception and I belong to the WSP a club with no match fishing ever on its waters. However the costs are far higher than most clubs as a result.
Clubs like the BAA were formed by match anglers and run by match anglers in the main. They were able to provide a massive amount of fishing on rivers all over the Midlands and Wales at a low cost.
These days most of the matches are held on commercial waters and the interest in river fishing has declined. The BAA has had to give up a vast part of its river fisheries (Kinver has at least one of them!) and survives largely on day tickets.
The baliffing by match men keen to protect their waters has all but gone in many places as no matches are ever held on most parts of the rivers.
Small clubs that focus on a small selection of waters that they are able to manage well are great and perhaps the only way forward in reality for those who care for river angling and the environment as much as we care for catching the odd big fish. However it was large clubs that provided the vast majority of pleasure anglers with their chance to fish rivers and they are (with the one exception of the PAAS) in decline. The move of match fishing from rivers to commercial stocked ponds has contributed to this decline. It also produces a very different attitude amongst many anglers who now see themselves as consumers rather than members.
It may be too late to reverse this, in which case clubs such as Kinver and a few others are going to be the saviours of river fishing on the Severn and the Teme. This will mean a rather more elitist approach that is great for some of us, but thinking back to when I was a kid, would have meant I would never have got to fish on a decent venue and would have just given up on fishing.
Clubs like the BAA were formed by match anglers and run by match anglers in the main. They were able to provide a massive amount of fishing on rivers all over the Midlands and Wales at a low cost.
These days most of the matches are held on commercial waters and the interest in river fishing has declined. The BAA has had to give up a vast part of its river fisheries (Kinver has at least one of them!) and survives largely on day tickets.
The baliffing by match men keen to protect their waters has all but gone in many places as no matches are ever held on most parts of the rivers.
Small clubs that focus on a small selection of waters that they are able to manage well are great and perhaps the only way forward in reality for those who care for river angling and the environment as much as we care for catching the odd big fish. However it was large clubs that provided the vast majority of pleasure anglers with their chance to fish rivers and they are (with the one exception of the PAAS) in decline. The move of match fishing from rivers to commercial stocked ponds has contributed to this decline. It also produces a very different attitude amongst many anglers who now see themselves as consumers rather than members.
It may be too late to reverse this, in which case clubs such as Kinver and a few others are going to be the saviours of river fishing on the Severn and the Teme. This will mean a rather more elitist approach that is great for some of us, but thinking back to when I was a kid, would have meant I would never have got to fish on a decent venue and would have just given up on fishing.
Lawrence Breakspear
Senior Member
Pete, i have to agree and disagree with you, if you look at the most successful clubs today, Prince Albert, White Swan, Shropshire Anglers, Kinver Freeliners and many many more, these clubs can be described as successful and these are predominantly patronised by specialist anglers who in the past have always been more environmentally and fish concious than matchmen , i have seen the attitude of the past typical BAA Brummie matchman type member, and I say this as a born and bred Birmingham lad, they had little care for the environment, little concern for the fish, only the match and the money, the times I have moved into a swim after a match and had to spend time in clearing the mess up, tins bags, Nylon, once a very famous match angler was the culprit. I would say that the predominant member profile of the BAA is now is pleasure/ specialist, but its the same old fossil(s) that run the organisation, and the same archaic philosophy still presides.
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Pete Marshall
Senior Member
I hear what you say Lawrence and I was one of those youngsters as a pleasure/specialist angler who used to clear up the mess left after matches down on the Severn in the seventies and then spend my time removing size 22 hooks from barbel with hardly any fins left after some of the matches!
The stereotype matchman who cared little for the environment is also matched however by the stereotype specialist angler who cared little for committees !!
Unfortunately committees and organisation are required to run clubs, bailiff waters and keep things going. The matchmen have dominated these. Whilst specialist anglers tend to enjoy the freedom and solitude of their fishing and only come together occasionally in committees (and then usually fallout over some archaic point or another and form their own committee)
The clubs you mention are fortunate enough in having keen specialist, pleasure anglers to run them...and they are showing a way forward. I would just like to see matches, run by environmental aware anglers back on the rivers as I do think it could encourage younger anglers and help preserve some of the spirit of angling. Match man don't have to be uncaring individuals any more than specialist anglers have to be solitary loaners
My concern is for the attitude of so many younger anglers is to river fishing, where they see themselves as consumers rather than club members. The "I paid my licence fee/ ticket and therefore some body else should do it for me" type of thing; that I believe will lead down the same paths of the worst sort of game angling, with stocked rivers, managed by paid for staff and most people priced out of river fishing. Where as the member approach is "I paid my ,membership so I am going to ring up/catch him in the pub etc. the club secretary and have a good moan". The moan directly to the secretary can end up with being persuaded to do a bit to help, become a bailiff, go on a work party, write to your MP etc. I know from personal experience as I was one to have a moan at certain club secretaries and got roped into all of those!
I'm sure I'm just getting old and nostalgic.....
The stereotype matchman who cared little for the environment is also matched however by the stereotype specialist angler who cared little for committees !!
Unfortunately committees and organisation are required to run clubs, bailiff waters and keep things going. The matchmen have dominated these. Whilst specialist anglers tend to enjoy the freedom and solitude of their fishing and only come together occasionally in committees (and then usually fallout over some archaic point or another and form their own committee
)The clubs you mention are fortunate enough in having keen specialist, pleasure anglers to run them...and they are showing a way forward. I would just like to see matches, run by environmental aware anglers back on the rivers as I do think it could encourage younger anglers and help preserve some of the spirit of angling. Match man don't have to be uncaring individuals any more than specialist anglers have to be solitary loaners
My concern is for the attitude of so many younger anglers is to river fishing, where they see themselves as consumers rather than club members. The "I paid my licence fee/ ticket and therefore some body else should do it for me" type of thing; that I believe will lead down the same paths of the worst sort of game angling, with stocked rivers, managed by paid for staff and most people priced out of river fishing. Where as the member approach is "I paid my ,membership so I am going to ring up/catch him in the pub etc. the club secretary and have a good moan". The moan directly to the secretary can end up with being persuaded to do a bit to help, become a bailiff, go on a work party, write to your MP etc. I know from personal experience as I was one to have a moan at certain club secretaries and got roped into all of those!
I'm sure I'm just getting old and nostalgic.....
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
By the way, obviously I blame Thatcher and the Blair for all of the problems...
Along with the invention of the interweb, Big Macs and Simon Cowell
Along with the invention of the interweb, Big Macs and Simon Cowell
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