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Anglers Mail - John Bailey Article

Do you know what Ian, I have spoken to some of the EA bods and read their work on eels, they are lying there heads off as well at their masters behest. You have posted a deliberately provocative post while holding most of the information back, you’re playing games. Now you moan and gripe about the reaction of that provocation. I don’t want to burn a witch, you will do.
 
Gregory,

I have no idea, Karen presented it to us at a meeting a couple of months ago.
I will ask if it of interest.

Rgds, Ian.

Crook,

no need now thanks

Regards

Martin:rolleyes:
 
Kevin Daly said:
Do you know what Ian, I have spoken to some of the EA bods and read their work on eels, they are lying there heads off as well at their masters behest.
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Kevin, you should be careful making comments like that! For the record the study Karen made, as has been pointed out already was prior to her being employed by the EA!

I started a thread about an article in the anglers mail, I was holding nothing back, it is just that instead of discussing that all the usual experts of speculation started throwing their theories around again!

I give up, again!
 
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Ian Grant said:
Otters i believe are not responsible for the major part of this situation we are seeing, at least not county wide

Ian.
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I'm of the same opinion. Your thoughts on the impact of Perch is very interesting, something i had not considered. Didn't the BS study into baby barbel reveal they like shallow slow areas? That would make those 2" stockies a prime target for Kingfishers!
 
Hi men,

Don't give up Crooky , that's what threads and discussions are about , and its a good post , as the pages of replies racking up prove !.

Got to say , laughed my Christmas balls off at the bit where 3 good anglers blanked , thus proving the theory right ?. That happens all over England week in , week out !.


Hatter
 
Andrew Boyne said:
I'm of the same opinion. Your thoughts on the impact of Perch is very interesting, something i had not considered. Didn't the BS study into baby barbel reveal they like shallow slow areas? That would make those 2" stockies a prime target for Kingfishers!
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Well all the other predators - and a few new ones ! were still there doing what predators always do, but remove the bulk of the perch population which must represent a major balancer in a rivers ecology for a number of years, surely must mean the survival of millions and millions of fry over that period, then put them back into the equation some years down the road, and they are surely going to have an abundance of food to the benefit of their recovering population, if all that is true, then as i say things surely must begin to equalise themselves.
I don't believe any study has been done on that theory - not that i have much faith in most of these studies - another argument altogether ! so it's all As Ian would say conjecture not supported by scientific proof.
To my mind though, the albeit circumstancial evidence fits what we are seeing.

Ian.
 
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Sorry Crooky I am a man of science and am tending to agree with DG on this.

The unit she is studying for her PhD from is well regarded. in academia.
I would not think the actual science is flawed.

However as far as I am concerned (as my regular river is the yorkshire derwent where otters were first reintroduced in the late 1980s and the river record is static despite various very good barbel anglers attention) something is not adding up!
 
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Graham Elliott said:
Crooky. I know we will just have to disagree with our views on the Loddon and Kennet. but please remember I have fished the rivers for 30 years longer than you.

I do find the references to Anglers in general not adopting different methods quite insulting to many.
Maggots catch barbel...now there is a surprise... meat also maybe....boilies as well? trotting ? Done it all this season and so have many others.

Let me tell you from talking to Anglers on the banks of these rivers about 3 times a week, the last 5 years have seen a marked reduction in fish catch rates for pretty much all anglers on the Kennet and Loddon.

Of course, higher up rivers, faster runs often produce smaller fish than the river average. BUT what I am saying is the numbers of smaller(under doubles) fish have shown a very marked decline all the way through.

Added.

Just seen your excellent post Ian G. after putting up my one. Brilliant.

Read the reports for the initial BFW seasons and then the current ones.
Some huge fish being caught laterly, yes but numbers of average sized fish.....no.

Look at the Thames reports, many smaller fish?

I don't buy the argument that "one angler said there were no fish nearby and the tagging said there was" so its all ok. That may well be very true. Then again...if there were 3 times as many there they may be competing for food and eating (as maybe there was a few years ago) Its fine to say there are lots of barbel about, don't worry....but how do you define lots, unless you compare over a significant period of time.

Why dont you give me a tally number of DF fish caught from the TDFC Loddon in this season and tell me that reflects a good number of smaller fish. It probably represents about a dozen at maximum.

Looking at IG's returns I reckon he catches 8 doubles to 1 single........

As for the Wye, yes lots IMO as I have managed about 1000 over the past 3 years.

But its not the Kennet or Loddon or apparently the Bristol Avon.....

I know the report excites you, I know she is passsionate about the research, I believe she has just been appointed to senior job (EA?) but don't let your requirement to retain memberships of a very good barbel orientated Club make you ignore the bleedingly obvious.

Added
Just seen your excellent post Ian after putting up mine. (these incomers!!)
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Crooky,

I have fished the Kennet for over forty years and the river and its barbel population have changed dramatically. I used to be able to observe shoals of barbel in crystal clear water full of ranunculus. Alas that is no longer the case.

The stretch I fish has fewer, but much bigger barbel.



Regards


Hugo


 
I have not read all the posts but some interesting views. One thing I would ask, if the barbel have become that much better at evading anglers, they have also become more adept at hiding certainly on rivers like the Ouse. You simply do not see the fish like you used to. What you do see are Otters its that simple. I have a lot of respect for JB but if he went up and fished the Ouse and some of the other rivers mentioned he would struggle just like everyone else
 
In support of my fellow Bristol Avon fishers. I've fished the BA since childhood and predominately barbel for the last 30 years. I've watched it grow, especially with respect to barbel and in the last few years watched it decline, which seems to coincide with increased sitings of otters. I've seen and witnessed the damage to barbel - perhaps kingfishers are removing the fish fins and chewing other body parts, creating the damage (said with tongue in cheek) but they certainly ain't dragging them up the bank and 'gutting' them.
Cheers
Bob
 
Ian
Again I got into personal sniping, will I ever learn, at 60 now I doubt it. So you have my apologies for that if you chose to accept them.
However I do honestly feel that the EA are trying to sell us Tower Bridge. I personally don’t blame the otter for the fall in Barbel numbers. Other factors must be taken into consideration. Cormorants, Crayfish and other invasive species, abstraction levels and eel decline. A lot less Barbel would be up the bank minus internal bits if otters could get their paws on their favourite grub, eels. Also there is as Ian Grant says an ebb and flow of all things in natures balance, so pity the single species angler if thing stay in decline for the Barbel. Perhaps we can switch to Bream and Andy F won’t have too much work to do on the banners.
I for one am convinced this report is just more EA smoke and mirrors weather the author was working, or just angling for a job with the EA. As has been said, Bailey did what Bailey does and used it to keep his name in the comics.
Anyway, whatever, I am off out to try and catch the grandma of the twenty pound Pike I had last week on a nice little estate lake my mates and I are fishing now.
 
Kevin Daly said:
Ian
Again I got into personal sniping, will I ever learn, at 60 now I doubt it. So you have my apologies for that if you chose to accept them.
However I do honestly feel that the EA are trying to sell us Tower Bridge. I personally don’t blame the otter for the fall in Barbel numbers. Other factors must be taken into consideration. Cormorants, Crayfish and other invasive species, abstraction levels and eel decline. A lot less Barbel would be up the bank minus internal bits if otters could get their paws on their favourite grub, eels. Also there is as Ian Grant says an ebb and flow of all things in natures balance, so pity the single species angler if thing stay in decline for the Barbel. Perhaps we can switch to Bream and Andy F won’t have too much work to do on the banners.
I for one am convinced this report is just more EA smoke and mirrors weather the author was working, or just angling for a job with the EA. As has been said, Bailey did what Bailey does and used it to keep his name in the comics.
Anyway, whatever, I am off out to try and catch the grandma of the twenty pound Pike I had last week on a nice little estate lake my mates and I are fishing now.
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Sounds good Kevin, I just want a twenty this season :) Good luck
 
Has anyone got a link to Karen's study so we can all look at the scientific evidence she has?

Maybe a link to the new methods of catching barbel now they have learnt to avoid the old ones would help as well ;)
 
David Gauntlett said:
Not the first time I have heard that either....although I have no evidence of the truth or otherwise of that claim, so wouldn't care to comment further :D

Cheers, Dave.
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I think that you may have a greater tolerance of those who use others for their own gain than I have.
 
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