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Otter petition.

Hi men ,

Yep mate , as put forward by anglers lone it does look like self interest only , and is possibly a major stumbling block .

Hatter
 
I've not heard that before about the cormorants being 'Chinese', but I guess it makes sense as there's probably no fish left in China! If this is the case and can be proved, surely they can be viewed as an alien species and could therefore legitimately be controlled?
Alien species is probably our best bet at control, taking out cormorants, signals and mink will be massive, although looks pretty impossible as it stands. Coupled with increasing pressure on abstraction and pollution culprits and I can't see otters being much of a problem anymore.
Big ask I know.
 

The only point I would make is that as I said earlier a campaign would need to include the true nature of predation that many of the public are not aware of.
 
I understand that Rhys. But the only chance of action would be the need to try change the perception of cuddly tarka.
This way gossanders are much more of a problem IMO.

Honestly? Nothing will change re predation of all types.

The water companies will not change procedures whilst shareholders remain priority, those shareholders will include many of those in power here and in Europe.
 
Graham Elliott said:
I understand that Rhys. But the only chance of action would be the need to try change the perception of cuddly tarka.
This way gossanders are much more of a problem IMO.

Honestly? Nothing will change re predation of all types.

The water companies will not change procedures whilst shareholders remain priority, those shareholders will include many of those in power here and in Europe.
Click to expand...
Too true Graham,if people think they can influence big businesses to change for the sake of angling they're completely deluded. The predation issue is the only thing anglers can maybe have a say in,but not until Tarka reaches the same numbers as foxes,then it will be ok to control them.
 
Green power subsidies enriched many already powerful and landowning gentry and politicians including our previous PMs family.

We paid them.

The water companies shareholders would gain nothing from water quality costs from required improvements.

Just facts of corporate business. Money controls.

Sorry to be so negative, but it's how it is. The EA have pretty much washed their hands of the matter regarding anglers concerns and left it to their paid third party people.
Who take money from Water Companies. Work it out.!!!
 
Mark.
Problem is that we have no natural alliances with any power or influence.

Certainly not the RSPCB With our history re lead shot, discarded line and wish to control avian predators.

And somehow a RSPCFish won't work with publics perception of our cruelty.

So, really nowhere to go. The AT wouldn't support the BS appeal. That's no surprise.

And the EA are a Government body. They will do as they are directed.
As when push comes to shove, will their outlets.

So. Where to go?
 
Hi men,

Had a "chat" with a committee member of a major club about a non related subject yesturday when he raised the otter problem , stating that the gu canal is indeed a ticking time bomb , regulary finding ottered carcasses , and damaged fins etc on some of the carp caught . He also mentioned a famous water that i wont name that has now been found by otters , add to this that the canal is crayfish soup for much of the year , and cormorants happily take silver fish then angling for all species as a whole is under pressure .

Hatter
 
Graham Elliott said:
Mark.
Problem is that we have no natural alliances with any power or influence.

Certainly not the RSPCB With our history re lead shot, discarded line and wish to control avian predators.

And somehow a RSPCFish won't work with publics perception of our cruelty.

So, really nowhere to go. The AT wouldn't support the BS appeal. That's no surprise.

And the EA are a Government body. They will do as they are directed.
As when push comes to shove, will their outlets.

So. Where to go?
Click to expand...
The problem with angling is the majority of the population still view it as a very peculiar pastime. My brief conversations with non anglers are as equally peculiar. For instance the amount of people who've never seen a kingfisher,heard a tawny owl,spied mink or cormorant( no bad thing). I literally encounter nearly all those things all the time 'why' because I'm an angler. The point I'm trying to make is that average Joe couldn't give a monkeys about those things because they live in a world that doesn't interest them. You used to have to go the top of Scotland at night to witness an otter,now they're everywhere,yet the majority will still never see one,but if you so much as hint of any kind of control said people would be appalled. Probably best they're kept in the dark really
 
Graham Elliott said:
Mark.
Problem is that we have no natural alliances with any power or influence.

Certainly not the RSPCB With our history re lead shot, discarded line and wish to control avian predators.

And somehow a RSPCFish won't work with publics perception of our cruelty.

So, really nowhere to go. The AT wouldn't support the BS appeal. That's no surprise.

And the EA are a Government body. They will do as they are directed.
As when push comes to shove, will their outlets.

So. Where to go?
Click to expand...

Graham you state as anglers we have no natural alliances . You state where to go ? I would start by building alliances with all the interested party's . Drop the word Otter because it is never going to happen . Surely any one who cares about our rivers and countryside has a vested interest in protecting it from what the water company's are doing to it .
 
Mark Mole said:
The problem with angling is the majority of the population still view it as a very peculiar pastime. My brief conversations with non anglers are as equally peculiar. For instance the amount of people who've never seen a kingfisher,heard a tawny owl,spied mink or cormorant( no bad thing). I literally encounter nearly all those things all the time 'why' because I'm an angler. The point I'm trying to make is that average Joe couldn't give a monkeys about those things because they live in a world that doesn't interest them. You used to have to go the top of Scotland at night to witness an otter,now they're everywhere,yet the majority will still never see one,but if you so much as hint of any kind of control said people would be appalled. Probably best they're kept in the dark really
Click to expand...

Theres a video on the PAG website which was aired on the BBC showing a Otter chasing after a cat . Otters will soon turn on peoples pets once the Rivers cant sustain them and the lakes are fenced off...Then and only then will the public demand something is done..
 
Joe Fletcher said:
Graham you state as anglers we have no natural alliances . You state where to go ? I would start by building alliances with all the interested party's . Drop the word Otter because it is never going to happen . Surely any one who cares about our rivers and countryside has a vested interest in protecting it from what the water company's are doing to it .
Click to expand...

Dare i say it again.....Our Government and its associated Agencys are breaking the law as stated under the EU laws on water quality..Its baffles me why no one is challenging them on this and indeed pointing out to the public that not only is it going to affect all wildlife , it will also affect everyones pocket when the big fines are issued by the EU..Peoples water bills will rocket to cover the fines , which will be running into millions..
 
Graham Elliott said:
I understand that Rhys. But the only chance of action would be the need to try change the perception of cuddly tarka.
This way gossanders are much more of a problem IMO.

Honestly? Nothing will change re predation of all types.

The water companies will not change procedures whilst shareholders remain priority, those shareholders will include many of those in power here and in Europe.
Click to expand...

They are breaking EU laws Graham , surely that's grounds enough to mount an inquiry..
 
Joe. Who?

Won't be the Countryside Alliance, Or the RSPCA or the EA or Peta ..etc.

Craig. Yes. So why has nothing happened? And would the EA be supportive against the Government and force change?
Realism reigns I'm afraid.

As Mark says, apart from anglers and fish keepers who yet, gives a monkeys.
 
Graham Elliott said:
Joe. Who?

Won't be the Countryside Alliance, Or the RSPCA or the EA or Peta ..etc.

Craig. Yes. So why has nothing happened? And would the EA be supportive against the Government and force change?
Realism reigns I'm afraid.

As Mark says, apart from anglers and fish keepers who yet, gives a monkeys.
Click to expand...

Well perhaps a petition the same as the last Otter one but this time asking them to explain why they are continuing to break EU water directive laws ..Nothings happened because no one is challenging them and this time we the people have the law on our side. The EA are part of the government and they also issue licences to companies to discharge pollution into our Rivers..Its a fight that can be won , you only have to see what SAS ( surfers against sewage ) did , and they won.
 
Perhaps the AT could start a petition asking the Government and its associated agencys to explain why they are breaking the law regarding pollution levels in our Rivers. This could actually show the AT are serious and maybe encourage more people to join. After all the AT have said they were not consulted on the latest Otter petition , so heres a good chance to show us all what they can do...
 
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