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Otter petition.

Seems sensible Craig. Suggest you ask the AT to pursue it and see the response beyond rhetoric.

Had a call short time ago from Committee member of BS.
I suggested they use the otter efforts as a marketing tool to gain more members.
The petition after all gained about 0.5pc of anglers signatures.
 
Seems sensible Craig. Suggest you ask the AT to pursue it and see the response beyond rhetoric.

Had a call short time ago from Committee member of BS.
I suggested they use the otter efforts as a marketing tool to gain more members.
The petition after all gained about 0.5pc of anglers signatures.

I have contacted the AT about forming a petition as previously stated in my other posts..Watch this space..
 
Theres a video on the PAG website which was aired on the BBC showing a Otter chasing after a cat . Otters will soon turn on peoples pets once the Rivers cant sustain them and the lakes are fenced off...Then and only then will the public demand something is done..

C
Mark.
Problem is that we have no natural alliances with any power or influence.

Certainly not the RSPCB With our history re lead shot, discarded line and wish to control avian predators.

And somehow a RSPCFish won't work with publics perception of our cruelty.

So, really nowhere to go. The AT wouldn't support the BS appeal. That's no surprise.

And the EA are a Government body. They will do as they are directed.
As when push comes to shove, will their outlets.

So. Where to go?

Graham you say that as far as the RSPB are concerned they wont work with us because of issues you state that have happened in the past .
Don't you think that by calling for some kind of control of Otters , That will be the final nail in the coffin for fishing and any chance we might of had will be gone when it comes to working with all the other wild life organisations
 
Joe. Sorry Don't really understand your point?
RSPB won't be happy about wanting to control gossanders cormorants etc even without angling history.
I have no idea of any alliances possible for our needs re predation (people only started to worry about mink when voles reduced!...not fish)

Other powerful organisations don't share our concerns about fish and fishing.
 
Joe. Who?

Won't be the Countryside Alliance, Or the RSPCA or the EA or Peta ..etc.

Craig. Yes. So why has nothing happened? And would the EA be supportive against the Government and force change?
Realism reigns I'm afraid.

As Mark says, apart from anglers and fish keepers who yet, gives a monkeys.


At one time when the EA first came into existence it was supposed to be a body that would challenge the government on all things environmental, things have changed since then now they are just a government puppet.
 
As natural waters anglers all we can do is adapt to the situation

All these governing bodies are crooked and corrupt,trouble is all humans have a price,some are a lot cheaper to buy than others.

The Government and its various agencys are making serious amounts of money by allowing companies / corporations , to discharge pollution into our Rivers..The problem is growing and our Government would rather pay the fines to the EU than actually show a duty of care and protect our Rivers..
 
You still have the lower Severn Joe,that fish you had was a nice specimen. It's not completely over just yet.

As you say Mark I have the Lower Severn which is just up the road from me . Also the W/Avon . The Wye is not that far away either . When I comes to rivers I am spoiled for choice .
 
I am sorry to sound so negative . My own personal opinion is that there is no way now or in the future we are going to get any kind of control on Otters numbers . I for one believe that public opinion would be totally against it . I believe the best way forward is to drop the issue we have with Otters and take on the water company's to make them stop what they are pumping in to our rivers . First step would be to form a single pressure group consisting off all the interested party's in the fight for cleaner Rivers and waterways . Greenpeace , Friends of the earth , RSPB , Natural England , Angling trust etc etc .
Then approach the BBC , Sky news and all of the national news papers . Get a film made as to what the water company's are doing our rivers and waterways to show what an impact it is having on our rivers . Raise public awareness in what is happening . Then start a crowd funding page to raise money to get a legal team to take on the water company's . Perhaps it sounds all a bit far fetched . For me that is the way forward if we all work together

Spot-on Joe and not remotely far-fetched in my opinion.

There is enormous potential for various interest groups to work together and form a very powerful coalition to fight for cleaner, healthier waterways.

I and genuinely believe that fundamentally there is a will to make that happen - it just needs good leadership to make it happen, and the ability to accept differing perspectives and outlooks on some issues. The key is to focus on areas of common ground - ultimately there is much more that unites the angling and nature conservation fraternities than divides them.

Yes the RSPB take a different view on cormorants / goosanders etc than many anglers - but that doesn't stop both sides from working together to fight polluters, there are already many example of angling organisations and nature conservation NGO's working together (http://blueprintforwater.org.uk/watermatters/), and I simply don't buy into the notion that the likes of the RSPB and Wildlife Trusts are anti-angling and I know both organisations well, probably better than most.

Other organisations that could act as powerful allies, include Buglife, an organisation that punches well above its weight (as it proved on the neonics issue) and the National Trust.

I remember reading a quote by Dr Mark Avery (ex-RSPB Director of Conservation and highly influential environment blogger/campaigner) along the lines of when he worked for the RSPB when he sat down with politicians, they listened because they knew he represented an organisation that was backed by 2.7 million voters. That's the same level of support that a 'clean water alliance' needs to build.

Talking of Mark Avery wrote the following review of Kevin Parr's Rivers Run:

Kevin Parr wrote the book that I selected as my favourite of 2014, The Twitch – that one was a black comedy, though very funny, I thought, about a murderous twitcher. This book is very different, and is about Parr’s greater love – fishing.
And it’s not a laddish tale of bonking, drinking and murder but a contemplative tale about fishing, nature and love of the countryside. Now I am no fisherman, having last caught anything with a rod and line about 45 years ago, but I very much enjoyed this book. If all fishermen (and they mostly are men) were like Kevin Parr then there would be more chance for fisherfolk and birding folk to work together to address the problems of the aquatic environment (and yes, it would take more of ‘us’ to be like Kevin Parr too).
This book has a lot of sitting by water bodies wondering about the fish that are under the water; and that meniscus is what separates us from fishermen to some extent. The angler has to sit on the edge of the water (mostly) and read the water and guess where the fish are and act accordingly to catch them – although there is a lot more to it than guessing. Reading this book I would gladly acknowledge that many anglers are pretty good ecologists, and are much closer to real hunters than the Pheasant-blasters of lowland Britain. Reading a river, an ever-changing river, and understanding what the different species of fish need and therefore where they will be and what type of bait will catch them, does, I can see, grab the imagination and sounds quite fun. You could say it is a greater skill than birding – you could.
And also, Parr is very convincing that it is not the catching of fish which is the be-all and end-all of fishing – in a way that no grouse shooter has even come close with me when trying to explain the thrill of driven grouse shooting.
It helps a bit, for me, that there are birds liberally scattered through the pages of this book, but that is partly the point: it is a believable tale of how enjoying a day’s fishing is about enjoying the river, with all its wildlife, as well as yanking some fish out of the water.
I learned quite a lot about fish from these pages but it is also an engaging story of fishing at different ages and in different places and at different stages of one’s private life – and how fishing can be a solace and great fun at different times. And the author comes across as a thoughtful and very nice man who thinks about things and is easy to like. And that is how he is in reality too, on the basis of me having met him just the once.
I recommend this book to you whether you have no interest in fishing or even if you dislike the idea of catching creatures with a hook in their mouths, because you will find the book thoughtful and interesting and you won’t be able to dislike its author. He might even get you hooked.
 
I've not heard that before about the cormorants being 'Chinese', but I guess it makes sense as there's probably no fish left in China! If this is the case and can be proved, surely they can be viewed as an alien species and could therefore legitimately be controlled?
Alien species is probably our best bet at control, taking out cormorants, signals and mink will be massive, although looks pretty impossible as it stands. Coupled with increasing pressure on abstraction and pollution culprits and I can't see otters being much of a problem anymore.
Big ask I know.

The evidence that carbo sinensis (sinensis is latin for chinese I believe) is an alien species is pretty flimsy Rhys.

See here: https://www.ornisfennica.org/pdf/latest/5Beike.pdf
 
I've not heard that before about the cormorants being 'Chinese', but I guess it makes sense as there's probably no fish left in China! If this is the case and can be proved, surely they can be viewed as an alien species and could therefore legitimately be controlled?
Alien species is probably our best bet at control, taking out cormorants, signals and mink will be massive, although looks pretty impossible as it stands. Coupled with increasing pressure on abstraction and pollution culprits and I can't see otters being much of a problem anymore.
Big ask I know.

The evidence that carbo sinensis (sinensis is latin for chinese I believe) is an alien species is pretty flimsy Rhys.

See here: https://www.ornisfennica.org/pdf/latest/5Beike.pdf
 
Sorry Joe. It's all anecdotal.

The RSPB would be very unlikely to align themselves to anglers.

Historic anti angling feeling , and continued discarded line damage would risk membership losses.

Less anglers more potential SSI birdwatching sites.

Bugslife? They punch so hard I doubt if more than 1% of people have ever heard of them.

It's all a nice dream. Realism is whats wanted. So. What alliances are possible for anglers. What ones of value have the AT managed in a few years?

Which of the top 10 by numbers membership charitable wildlife /nature organisations would be interested.

I wish you were right. I wish I was more positive. But.......
 
Hardly anecdotal. As I alluded to in my post, there are already many examples of the RSPB working in partnership with angling organisations such as the Angling Trust , Salmon and Trout Association, & Rivers Trusts to produce joint responses/consultations on issues such as fracking and other water quality issues:
http://ww2.rspb.org.uk/Images/shale_gas_report_evidence_tcm9-365779.pdf
https://www.wcl.org.uk/our-members.asp

And then there are more local examples:
http://longprestonfloodplainproject.org/

There just needs to me more of it. And yes - obviously there probably is some anti-angling feeling amongst many nature conservation organisations, but not as much as many anglers imagine in my experience. But the bottom line is we don't need to all agree on everything - but I'm pretty sure most anglers and conservationists are pretty much in agreement about issues such as pollution, water abstraction, building on flood plains, dredging etc. The enemy of my enemy is my friend as the old proverb goes.

Buglife - yes, small organisation (<25 staff) only formed about 14 years ago. Perhaps < 1% of the population have heard of them - that didn't stop them playing a major role (probably more than other environmental organisation) in the campaign to stop the UK Govt. from overturning the EU ban on neonics. They took on powerful big global corporations like Syngenta and Monsanto and won. That's what I mean about punching above their weight. Why wouldn't anglers want to work with them on areas of common interest such as water quality?

Cheers,
Joe
 
By the way Joe. We have 2 (at least) organisations that are meant to protect anglers interests.

The EA and the AT. And we all pay them to do that!

The EA is an organisation that is no longer fit for purpose in my opinion - but that is exactly what the last three Government's have set out to achieve. I don't believe any single Govt agency had its budgets cut to the extent of the EA. Taking into account inflation, its thought to be 57% cut in spend since 2010. It wasn't exactly great before then...

The AT - it won't ever really do anything substantial until enough anglers get behind it and it can become more financially independent imo.
 
Joe
Thanks for the links and enlightening me on a couple of areas, like Fracking that have had mutual support including the AT
I know the AT is also campaigning about housing developments now as well...


At least we agree that the two groups that get paid to care for anglers are pretty useless at the main things they should be involved with.

Cheers.
 
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