Dean Aston
Senior Member
Very nice Mr Cole
-
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Zander
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
Steve Cole
Senior Member
Cheers Dean
Just back from a 2 nighter but only had 2 smallish Zeds & 1 small Pike. Temps currently not an issue, both fought really well and went back fiesty.
Eels are a problem. I guess I had half a dozen eel takes to one Zed. A couple made a right mess of the rigs, sucessfully tying them in knots
. I did manage to hook one though - in the tail
Out again Sunday evening
Just back from a 2 nighter but only had 2 smallish Zeds & 1 small Pike. Temps currently not an issue, both fought really well and went back fiesty.
Eels are a problem. I guess I had half a dozen eel takes to one Zed. A couple made a right mess of the rigs, sucessfully tying them in knots
. I did manage to hook one though - in the tail Out again Sunday evening
Steve Williams
Senior Member
How'd you get on last night bud?
Steve Cole
Senior Member
Dreadful session !! I found that freezing the baits, certainly Bleak anyway, softens them too much and the eels strip them to the bone in seconds.
I'm off now for another two nights but will be catching fresh baits to use - its the only way. Roll on the cooler weather.
I'm off now for another two nights but will be catching fresh baits to use - its the only way. Roll on the cooler weather.
Lee Poultney
Senior Member
How do you guys normally set up for a Zander on a typical lower Severn/Avon stretch? Do you rigs differ much from Pike rigs bearing in mind there's plenty of them about? Also, what makes a good Zander peg/conditions in your opinion? It's one fish I've never caught and fancy a go this autumn/winter.
Steve Williams
Senior Member
Hi lee.
I fish very similar for zeds as I do for pike.
Bearing in mind most of my fishing is off my boat these days, but tackle is almost the same. I will scale down the hook size and even fish singles for zeds, but in the back of my mind I'm always thinking I might hook a huge pike.
Baits are always coarse, either dead or lives, but if deads make them as fresh as possible. I know of zed anglers that will kill livebaits to make the deads as fresh as possible.
Location is something else. In my opinion, they can turn up anywhere on the Severn and Avon.
Obvious spots like deep water close in, snags, overhanging trees and bushes etc, as well as moored boats, side streams etc are all worth a go.
There are a few lads that now quiver tip for zander, hitting every 'knock'.
I prefer floats where I can. But streight ledger with rear drop offs also work.
The best thing to do is either go out with someone, or if your happy and confident, just go and do it.
They really are a superb fish to target, and I suspect some lucky so and so will break the British record this winter... It could be you....
Lee Poultney
Senior Member
Thanks Steve, I do a bit of Pike fishing in the winter so if I'm in the right area I might get lucky. Also, I'm interested in the single hook option so which trace material do you use and do you crimp or twist? Cheers.
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Steve Williams
Senior Member
I use various wires, and crimp lee.
I find it neater than twisting, but each to their own.
Well worth fishing some half roach/skimmer deads and see what comes along.
If you've pike fished, then your not a million miles away mate...
I find it neater than twisting, but each to their own.
Well worth fishing some half roach/skimmer deads and see what comes along.
If you've pike fished, then your not a million miles away mate...
Lee Poultney
Senior Member
Thanks again.
Paul Thomas
Senior Member
Lee,
As Scuba alluded to, I'm one of the "hit every knock" brigade fishing my rod(s) at a steep angle (Barbel style) with the bait runners off and keeping my eyes glued to the rod tops. I normally fish short 5-6 hour sessions around the afternoon into dusk period so I can maintain the concentration needed. I like to float fish dead baits where possible simply because I like looking at a float but more often than not these days I'm finding the Zander to be in the fastest water in front of me and usually out of effective float fishing range. I now start most trips with both rods set up on leger stems with 2-3oz leads positioned well out in the flow - often past mid river, wherever the flow seems keenest.
One thing that I have had to adjust to when after Z'ds is my mindset in relation to pick ups, in that Zander pick up and eventually swallow their prey completely differently to Pike who take the bait across the flank and turn and swallow it head first in one movement shortly after....
....The Zander attacks it's meal using their front canine teeth, usually to disable the prey item and as these teeth fit into opposing sockets in the jaw, it is therefore impossible for the bait to be turned and swallowed at this point. The Zander must drop the bait once it has disabled it and then pick it up again to swallow it, often tail first.
This is where the use of a smaller bait can/will assist in hook up ratio on an immediate strike - my preferred time of strike is as soon as the rod top knocks, which incidentally very rarely signals as a single bleep on the Delkim at maximum sensitivity!! Sure, there will be times when the hook(s) fail to connect but more often than not one point at least will be inside the Zanders mouth at the point of initial pick up.
Using smaller baits will increase the rate of hook ups but will also allow every Zander in the water to pick up the bait, from 1lb all the way through the weight range....I feel there is definately something in using bigger baits for bigger Zander and I often opt for a decapitated Roach/Skimmer in the 4-6oz range as my starting point. This size bait will still be picked up by "schoolie" Zander in the 1-2lb range but rarely are they hooked as the configuration of hooks in this sized bait may well not be in their small mouth upon the initial hit. It is up to the individual angler as to whether they are happy to catch any sized fish or prefer to wait it out for a bigger one to come along
I feel it is a mistake IMO to let the run develop as in Pike fishing, using a drop off style indicator and open bail arm. On the Severn where I fish, the flow will pick up the line as it peels off the reel leaving the angler to have to retrieve this line prior to strike....all the time putting added resistance into the equation which leads to added dropped runs when Zander are concerned.
This is why I strike early as the bait taken by a Zander will have to be dropped/released at some point to allow it to be re-taken to be swallowed and timing this correctly might just be impossible....that is assuming of course that they can find and pick the bait up again!?! There is some thought that pack Zander will attack a shoal of prey fish, disabling a number of them before returning to feed a short time later....this is not proven, but adds fuel to the fire and went some way to leading me onto the method I describe here.
My preference when deadbaiting for Zander is to hit each and every indication I get, because after all is said and done....
...."Dead fish do not swim" so any movement is likely to be a pick up
Just my thoughts
Paul
As Scuba alluded to, I'm one of the "hit every knock" brigade fishing my rod(s) at a steep angle (Barbel style) with the bait runners off and keeping my eyes glued to the rod tops. I normally fish short 5-6 hour sessions around the afternoon into dusk period so I can maintain the concentration needed. I like to float fish dead baits where possible simply because I like looking at a float but more often than not these days I'm finding the Zander to be in the fastest water in front of me and usually out of effective float fishing range. I now start most trips with both rods set up on leger stems with 2-3oz leads positioned well out in the flow - often past mid river, wherever the flow seems keenest.
One thing that I have had to adjust to when after Z'ds is my mindset in relation to pick ups, in that Zander pick up and eventually swallow their prey completely differently to Pike who take the bait across the flank and turn and swallow it head first in one movement shortly after....
....The Zander attacks it's meal using their front canine teeth, usually to disable the prey item and as these teeth fit into opposing sockets in the jaw, it is therefore impossible for the bait to be turned and swallowed at this point. The Zander must drop the bait once it has disabled it and then pick it up again to swallow it, often tail first.
This is where the use of a smaller bait can/will assist in hook up ratio on an immediate strike - my preferred time of strike is as soon as the rod top knocks, which incidentally very rarely signals as a single bleep on the Delkim at maximum sensitivity!! Sure, there will be times when the hook(s) fail to connect but more often than not one point at least will be inside the Zanders mouth at the point of initial pick up.
Using smaller baits will increase the rate of hook ups but will also allow every Zander in the water to pick up the bait, from 1lb all the way through the weight range....I feel there is definately something in using bigger baits for bigger Zander and I often opt for a decapitated Roach/Skimmer in the 4-6oz range as my starting point. This size bait will still be picked up by "schoolie" Zander in the 1-2lb range but rarely are they hooked as the configuration of hooks in this sized bait may well not be in their small mouth upon the initial hit. It is up to the individual angler as to whether they are happy to catch any sized fish or prefer to wait it out for a bigger one to come along
I feel it is a mistake IMO to let the run develop as in Pike fishing, using a drop off style indicator and open bail arm. On the Severn where I fish, the flow will pick up the line as it peels off the reel leaving the angler to have to retrieve this line prior to strike....all the time putting added resistance into the equation which leads to added dropped runs when Zander are concerned.
This is why I strike early as the bait taken by a Zander will have to be dropped/released at some point to allow it to be re-taken to be swallowed and timing this correctly might just be impossible....that is assuming of course that they can find and pick the bait up again!?! There is some thought that pack Zander will attack a shoal of prey fish, disabling a number of them before returning to feed a short time later....this is not proven, but adds fuel to the fire and went some way to leading me onto the method I describe here.
My preference when deadbaiting for Zander is to hit each and every indication I get, because after all is said and done....
...."Dead fish do not swim" so any movement is likely to be a pick up
Just my thoughts
Paul
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Steve Williams
Senior Member
Cracking post Paul, and something we've both discussed at length....
I do think there is some mileage in quiver tipping for Zander.
I remember reading a Matt Hayes piece in A/T about him doing just that.
They used Barbel rods and feeders full of chopped fish, with a section on the hook.
I'm going to do a lot more trotting this winter, rather than my normally preferred paternoster approach.
In fact, I'll probably hedge my bets between a Paternostered live, a trotted live and a ledgered dead... and see what happens....
Steve
I do think there is some mileage in quiver tipping for Zander.
I remember reading a Matt Hayes piece in A/T about him doing just that.
They used Barbel rods and feeders full of chopped fish, with a section on the hook.
I'm going to do a lot more trotting this winter, rather than my normally preferred paternoster approach.
In fact, I'll probably hedge my bets between a Paternostered live, a trotted live and a ledgered dead... and see what happens....
Steve
Paul Thomas
Senior Member
Scubes,
Trotting a live/dead can be a deadly method....lends itself well to boat fishing and not so well when fishing from terra firma. You'll catch well on the method off the back of Yam Yam as you can cover so much water on each trot through.
Trotting a live/dead can be a deadly method....lends itself well to boat fishing and not so well when fishing from terra firma. You'll catch well on the method off the back of Yam Yam as you can cover so much water on each trot through.
Lee Poultney
Senior Member
Thanks Paul. So from that Zander like some flow over their backs, fish a tight line and hit anything? Do they feed in any conditions or are some better than others? Thanks again.
Paul Thomas
Senior Member
Lee,
I've caught them in all sorts of conditions....from low and clear to up and coloured but I prefer fishing for them in a bit of coloured water or at first and last light. They have superior eyesight to most, if not all other coarse fish and take full advantage by hunting in low light conditions.
As for flow....I've certainly found that mid river works well for them - wherever the flow is most...that said though, I have also caught them in slack water so I guess they will always be where the prey are?
Paul
I've caught them in all sorts of conditions....from low and clear to up and coloured but I prefer fishing for them in a bit of coloured water or at first and last light. They have superior eyesight to most, if not all other coarse fish and take full advantage by hunting in low light conditions.
As for flow....I've certainly found that mid river works well for them - wherever the flow is most...that said though, I have also caught them in slack water so I guess they will always be where the prey are?
Paul
Steve Cole
Senior Member
Just back from that 48 hour session. Eels still a mare as soon as the light fades, even with very fresh baits. I wasn't going to give up that easily though. (Although having sat through yesterdays deluge I was beginning to question my sanity ) The river rose during the night, not surprisingly, so I figured a move to a more fishable area was in order before calling it a day.
Glad I did, as I broke the PB for a second time this month. Here she is at 12.03. and my, did she scrap. I was convinced I was attached to a good Pike.
Steve
) The river rose during the night, not surprisingly, so I figured a move to a more fishable area was in order before calling it a day. Glad I did, as I broke the PB for a second time this month. Here she is at 12.03. and my, did she scrap. I was convinced I was attached to a good Pike.
Steve
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Paul Thomas
Senior Member
Steve,
Cracking fish mucker...
Cracking fish mucker...
Steve Cole
Senior Member
Paul - That bright sunlight did me a huge favour today - by putting the eels down. Yes, I still got one or two eel 'nibbles' but it gave the Zeds a chance to find my bait. (I also had another about 6lb)
Steve Cole
Senior Member
Just back from another extended session - mainly targetting Zeds. Lots of eel trouble still, but I've found that if you stick with it a Zed will eventually put in an apperance.
Only one fish to report at 9.07 - took a small dead skimmer
Steve
Only one fish to report at 9.07 - took a small dead skimmer
Steve
Steve Williams
Senior Member
Nice one bud!!!
Steve
Steve
Paul Thomas
Senior Member
Good stuff again Steve....I'm still after a Perch or two but will be switching onto Lucioperca come the start of the colder weather....Eels