Howard Cooke
Senior Member
Spot on Lloyd..best post on this thread so far.
You beat me to it John! Great post by Lloyd.
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Spot on Lloyd..best post on this thread so far.
There's really no point it's a dead dog. It's not that I'm convinced they have had little impact, more that thier impact is over stated by some. My observations almost exclusively on the Dorset Stour admittedly, is that they seem to work very hard to catch very little, taking mostly silvers. Thier presence is longer standing than many realise and I've only seen one fish I'd suspect was killed by an otter. The way some wang on you'd expect to see the banks littered with half eaten carcasses.
The way I see it there's not much in the facts camp;
The number of individuals is unknown. The methods used to measure population such as spraint samples appears to have poor record.
The diet of them is debatable. The historical diet is unlikely what they are eating, certainly one study suggested they were eating minnows.
Frequent sightings of what is a crepuscular animal in full daylight to me suggests poor food availability driving them to hunt longer and take bigger risks.
I honestly think that the dwindling numbers of many corse fish are a reflection of environmental pressures at large and whilst a wet cat won't help I do not think they are the driving force. It's a long winded emotional and subjective topic with few solid answers and really that's all there is to say. I can't really be bothered to expand beyond this and don't wish to drag things off topic.
There's really no point it's a dead dog. It's not that I'm convinced they have had little impact, more that thier impact is over stated by some. My observations almost exclusively on the Dorset Stour admittedly, is that they seem to work very hard to catch very little, taking mostly silvers. Thier presence is longer standing than many realise and I've only seen one fish I'd suspect was killed by an otter. The way some wang on you'd expect to see the banks littered with half eaten carcasses.
The way I see it there's not much in the facts camp;
The number of individuals is unknown. The methods used to measure population such as spraint samples appears to have poor record.
The diet of them is debatable. The historical diet is unlikely what they are eating, certainly one study suggested they were eating minnows.
Frequent sightings of what is a crepuscular animal in full daylight to me suggests poor food availability driving them to hunt longer and take bigger risks.
I honestly think that the dwindling numbers of many corse fish are a reflection of environmental pressures at large and whilst a wet cat won't help I do not think they are the driving force. It's a long winded emotional and subjective topic with few solid answers and really that's all there is to say. I can't really be bothered to expand beyond this and don't wish to drag things off topic.
Not sure John Everard would agree with you Stephen. He did some in depth interviews with Stewart Moss on the upper Thames in CAT, back in 2012, I still have the magazine. He was a very experienced Thames angler of many years and one of the most successful Thames barbel anglers ever. He put the demise of the barbel population firmly at the door of the otter.
As I said I really do not wish to discuss the matter and further derail someone else's thread with the dreaded O topic, so let's not do that. The topic has been flogged to death. I'm not aware of the article or the chap concerned, its credibility or accuracy, is it based on science fact or simply anacdotal speculation (please don't answer that it's rhetorical) Therefore cannot comment on it or it's content. Im sorry if that sounds grumpy but as I say it's been done to death and opening that can of worms will ruin an otherwise perfectly good thread.
If the 'otter on the bank' aint mentioned then it just stays as the 'elephant in the room' IMHO.
I've very little doubt that otters have, and are, having a highly negative effect on barbel numbers in general....and the number of large, more lumbering, specimens in particular.
Having fished the Dorset Stour for over 30 years Stephen you're comments are way of the mark.
With over 35 years of fishing the Hampshire Avon and Kennet also, let me assure you that Otters do much more harm to all fish that you 'assume' or are led to believe!
Your local Throop fishery is a shadow of its former self!
Having fished the Dorset Stour for over 30 years Stephen you're comments are way of the mark.
With over 35 years of fishing the Hampshire Avon and Kennet also, let me assure you that Otters do much more harm to all fish that you 'assume' or are led to believe!
Your local Throop fishery is a shadow of its former self!
Ray, never thought that the Avon close season Salmon angler caught Barbel could be the same fish as the 14's caught in season but it makes sense.Those fish would also be heavier due to spawn.Were not those Medway fish off of the radar like Adams mill fish during the growing period of their life.Do you also think plenty of guesstimating went on back in the last century ,i would have thought at least one of those would have been mounted/glass cased somewhere(boy that would be a find).Last year i found a forgotten 50lb salmon in a boiler room at an old Hotel that had been hidden there for 60 plus years,so there might be a monster barbel somewhere.