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Teme Study

Lawrence Breakspear

Lawrence Breakspear

Senior Member
The 2018 Barbel Show in June, Cattie the river Teme PHD student who was sponsored by the Barbel Society, the EA and the Severn rivers trust gave an update of her study of barbel numbers in teme, and in conclusion she stated, that as the Teme as an SSI, her study has shown, there are no water quality issues on the Teme, no habitat issues, no lack of suitable spawning sites and no abstraction issues that would affect the barbels ability to thrive. So that leaves one thing, as I have been saying for years PREDATION.

This points to Cormorants, Meganzers and our Apex friend the Otter, the Otters effect on the Temes barbel, Chub, Bream and Pike population has been catastrophic, the Barbel has suffered the most because the way the Otter targets the larger slower females, the egg producers, when an Otter takes a 10 pound barbel, it doesn't take a good fish its takes 150,000 eggs out of the system every year that barbel may have lived for, before it was killed.

As I have always said, it doesnt matter how clean, how perfect your river is, without a broodstock of barbel the species has little chance, with the average ratio of male barbel to female being 7 to 1 in most rivers, and the fact that males live shorter lives than the females you can see how a barbel population can collapse very quickly, almost a season to season event if most of the females are lost to predation, the Teme, the Bristol Avon and the Kennett are good examples of this. This time of year is when the Barbel is at its most vulnerable as they move to more to shallower areas, tributaries and weir pools to spawn, these area become the killing fields for the Otter, the damage is immeasurable.
 
Ok, so having identified the issue what is the solution?
 
The only solution is a cull I'm afraid. Just don't consult the powers that be or the general public,what they don't know won't hurt them. Angling is an insular pursuit,probably best kept that way.
 
How about, collecting a few carcassess which mister O has left lying about, lace them with arsenic, and place directly in view of mister cormorant and goosander. :eek::eek::eek: All monitored of course, in case a stray dog, cat, or EU, should stroll up. ;););)
 
Derek Funcks said:
How about, collecting a few carcassess which mister O has left lying about, lace them with arsenic, and place directly in view of mister cormorant and goosander. :eek::eek::eek: All monitored of course, in case a stray dog, cat, or EU, should stroll up. ;););)
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That's the problem Derek,very few carcasses are ever found because they're quickly 'cleaned up'. How often have you vacated a swim and then looked back only to see magpies,crows etc land and scavenge. Wildlife quickly cotton on to a easy meal,avian scavengers first then ultimately bigger mammals like the fox.
 
You would think with so much carnage we would witness more evidence of Otter kill.Otter I understand do not consume the whole carcass, and even factoring in scavenging surely there should be more half consumed fish we would observe? The Teme attracts many 100s of Barbel every Summer, surely if the Otter is to blame the evidence would be apparent?
I can accept that the Otter has an influence on Barbel stocks, taking mature fish, but if we were to put Mr O in the dock I would think the jury would need to see the forensic evidence before conviction.
Also is a single Phd students observations enough to form a case for the prosecution?
SRT have millions to spend on the Shad problem, and yet the reducing Barbel numbers seem of no interest to them, the Shad is an indigenous species and has a Romantic notion for many, hence the funding. We coarse anglers and the species we target have no value apparently, beyond our own community.
 
I believe the first thing we as anglers have to do is convince those who have the ability to make changes, is that Otter populations need some sort of management or control in some locations, this is the first step in the non lethal control model. We as river anglers need a mechanism and process where and when an Otter or Otters are being problematic action can be taken, such as being taken into permanent captivity, or injured or orphaned Otters in certain locations are not reintroduced once taken in, research into some sort of sterilisation programme of dog otters in certain geographical locations, limitation of human interference into the Otters life cycle such as the building of Otter holts on an unregulated scale, the study of the use of repellents where otters are discouraged. We wouldn't have to wait long to see the positive effects of non lethal control, otters haven't got very long life spans anyway, dog otters are murderous creatures against their own kind, so they themselves could be part of the management process, especially if they lose the ability to sire pups themselves. Legislation needs to be changed so it would make it unlawful for otters to be surreptitiously released by Otter sanctuaries. There are lots of things we can do, there are many things by those that supposed to represent us can do, what we as river anglers mustn't do is nothing. Because the the petition was raised and was signed by 12,000 plus anglers, the Otter debate and discussion as increased ten fold, we have seen articles in the national press, social media debate, the radio, I even managed to get David Gregory Kumar the reporter of central television to acknowledge the adverse effects of otters on fish populations, whilst reporting on Otters coming back to the Midlands canals on his TV programme, with the petition being dismissed by some as a failure or the lacking of clarity, its is seen by those that signed it and those that secretly supported it as the catalyst for change for the situation we find ourselves in. The next step is to deliver the Petition to Downing street as is our right...
 
If you want to see forensic evidence on Otter kills on all fish species including barbel, read the Predation Action Group Fact Sheet and watch the superb accompanying DVD, it covers all predation, Otters, Cormorants, White claw crays and Gooseanders. Details can be found on www.predationactionactiongroup.co.uk.

There is a modest fee that covers production and postage.
 
Do you have a link to the paper Lawrence, I’d be in interested to read it in detail.

I’m not sure what is meant by ‘..and in conclusion she stated, that as the Teme as an SSI, her study has shown, there are no water quality issues on the Teme, no habitat issues...’

I’m not sure the scope of any pHD study could be so wide as to conclude so definitively about so many different variables. 97% of the Teme is has an SSSI condition assessment of ‘unfavourable condition - no change’, with the remaining 3% in ‘unfavourable condition - no change’. As SSSI conditions assessements go, that’s pretty damning. Aside from issues with fish obstruction, the major reasons for the assessment are ‘water pollution - agriculture/run-off’ and ’water pollution - discharge’. Does the paper therefore conclude that the EA water quality data, upon which the assessments are base, is flawed? Or that barbel are much more tolerant of poor water quality than other species?

Does the paper make any reference to the possible impact of Neonics? These were only first picked up in the Teme in the back end of last year by a testing undertaken by Buglife, as far as I know this was the first time anyone had tested for them. They were banned in 2013 and the impact of them upon fish populations is as yet unknown, but we are just beginning to learn just how devastating they are to the freshwater invertebrates that form the base of the aquatic food-chain.
 
Mark Mole said:
The only solution is a cull I'm afraid. Just don't consult the powers that be or the general public,what they don't know won't hurt them. Angling is an insular pursuit,probably best kept that way.[/QUOTE

So barbel anglers are entitled to simply ignore the letter of the law and start unilaterally culling otters? That’s the road to nowhere imo.
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The paper isnt published yet Joe, the student gave a summary of the paper during her presentation and had private conversations after her talk, we will give details of the paper when its available....
 
There is no doubt , that existing Barbel stocks , past and present have declined in big numbers due to Otters.
People often say , " we don't find carcasses " , well yes that's likely considering the Otter wipes out Barbel stocks over a period of time , say 1 or 2 a day/week , so it is gradual , so at first you don't notice.
Then of course Foxes , Rats , Badgers , Crows etc etc , clean up whats left , usually the Fox will move the Carcass to eat.
Foxes and Badgers in particular have now been seen more and more patrolling River banks , because they have now become accustomed to regular meals left behind by the Otter.
As soon as Otters are spotted on any River , the Barbel stocks decline , that's a fact.
 
Craig Wood said:
There is no doubt , that existing Barbel stocks , past and present have declined in big numbers due to Otters.
People often say , " we don't find carcasses " , well yes that's likely considering the Otter wipes out Barbel stocks over a period of time , say 1 or 2 a day/week , so it is gradual , so at first you don't notice.
Then of course Foxes , Rats , Badgers , Crows etc etc , clean up whats left , usually the Fox will move the Carcass to eat.
Foxes and Badgers in particular have now been seen more and more patrolling River banks , because they have now become accustomed to regular meals left behind by the Otter.
As soon as Otters are spotted on any River , the Barbel stocks decline , that's a fact.
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Hello Craig ,how do you know this is a fact ? I have regularly seen otters on the Yorkshire Ouse for over 15 years and I have not noticed any decline in the Barbel population
 
As always I have always been reticent to attribute the sole blame on just the Otter or any other Predator come to that, what I do know is what my eyes tell me. Walking the banks of the Teme and wading in the margins just a year ago, I was amazed at the lack of any small fry, and come to that any sub surface insect life at all. The River looked devoid of life, we could see no Chub Gudgeon, Dace Roach, let alone Barbel, compare that to the Severn, WAvon on my patch and it was in stark contrast to these Rivers.

Joe mentioned Neonics, this is the first I have heard of this, could this be a major factor? Certainly it seems more feasible than just blaming Predation, because even with the level of Predation attributed to this River there would surely still be a thriving micro life?
 
Craig Wood said:
There is no doubt , that existing Barbel stocks , past and present have declined in big numbers due to Otters.
People often say , " we don't find carcasses " , well yes that's likely considering the Otter wipes out Barbel stocks over a period of time , say 1 or 2 a day/week , so it is gradual , so at first you don't notice.
Then of course Foxes , Rats , Badgers , Crows etc etc , clean up whats left , usually the Fox will move the Carcass to eat.
Foxes and Badgers in particular have now been seen more and more patrolling River banks , because they have now become accustomed to regular meals left behind by the Otter.
As soon as Otters are spotted on any River , the Barbel stocks decline , that's a fact.
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Craig you must know as I do, any carcass is not just wiped out in a couple of hours, it takes days if not weeks to go, how many Pike carcass do we see that hang around for days/ weeks? This is the nagging doubt I have, as others do, if they were killing en mass surely there would be the evidence,? We simply don't have it.
 
I merely suggested it's the only solution. I don't expect barbel anglers on mass to take up arms. How many badger carcasses do you encounter at the roadside? Next time stop and have a look,they're not all roadkill. Humans have always sorted 'pests' out,whether it be rats,squirrels,badgers,the otter shouldn't rank above any other mammal.
 
Neil Smart said:
Craig you must know as I do, any carcass is not just wiped out in a couple of hours, it takes days if not weeks to go, how many Pike carcass do we see that hang around for days/ weeks? This is the nagging doubt I have, as others do, if they were killing en mass surely there would be the evidence,? We simply don't have it.
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Neil,what if a lot of fish are eaten at the waters edge,with the remains then floating off or sinking out of site.
 
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