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Supposed Ray Walton claim??

One useful tip if you have a belly up barbel thats not covered and will definately increase survival rates.

With the fish held in the water, ideally in a large net, apply pressure by stroking the fish from the vent to the head section with a couple of fingers.
Do this 3 or 4 times ensuring the fishes head is submerged. You will normally see some bubbles come out removing the problem with gassing up.
 
Ray Walton said:
If any creature has a brain...it can get brain damage... in more ways than just one and at different degrees and effects. In my opinion, this post/thread highlights just one probable cause which could affect the barbel's health, well being and it's ability to survive.
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What are you saying Ray?
 
I know its not barbel BUT !
though it was worth a mention? some 40 odd years ago I attended a British carp study group meeting
and a Fish biologist gave a lecture and during it explained that during the fight the hooked fish will get a buildup of (cant remember the name of it) but its the equivalent of Adrenalin that we would get
and he said if you quickly unhooked and released the fish and it was a large old fish there would be a very good chance the fish would initially swim away then a few mins later DIE !
he said it was essential to rest the fish for a minimum of 5 mins before releasing to allow this ((Lactic acid or whatever it was called ? ))
to dissipate
its a fact in some high French Carp lakes after suffering some unexplained fish losses they introduced the rule

QUOTE "All fish to be retained in recovery slings and returned after the 15 minute recovery time"

apparently they are not suffering anything like the losses now
on a personal note my opinion is
fish that get caught often are Mug fish ! and if they are the bigger fish well they need to eat more simple ?
 
Gerry Giles said:
I know its not barbel BUT !
though it was worth a mention? some 40 odd years ago I attended a British carp study group meeting
and a Fish biologist gave a lecture and during it explained that during the fight the hooked fish will get a buildup of (cant remember the name of it) but its the equivalent of Adrenalin that we would get
and he said if you quickly unhooked and released the fish and it was a large old fish there would be a very good chance the fish would initially swim away then a few mins later DIE !
he said it was essential to rest the fish for a minimum of 5 mins before releasing to allow this ((Lactic acid or whatever it was called ? ))
to dissipate
its a fact in some high French Carp lakes after suffering some unexplained fish losses they introduced the rule

QUOTE "All fish to be retained in recovery slings and returned after the 15 minute recovery time"

apparently they are not suffering anything like the losses now
on a personal note my opinion is
fish that get caught often are Mug fish ! and if they are the bigger fish well they need to eat more simple ?
Click to expand...

This to me makes no sense. Lactic acid build up is caused by oxygen deprivation in muscle tissue due to aerobic activity. Essentially the oxygen is being burned too fast. This of course makes sense. Same as you or I the lactic will disapate with breathing and rest.
Fish cannot breath on land because the gill structure collapses under its own weight and must remain wet and preferably fully submerged. The best/only place a fish can recover is back in the water. The only variable is dissolved oxygen content in the water. I cannot see any reason how recovery in the net vs the water body as a whole is any more beneficial. The fish is either submerged or not, it can either breathe or not. The only reason I think net rest is important is predation protection whilst in this vulnerable state.
Personally I think a fish will recover and distress fastest once back in its safe zone in richly oxygenated waters.
As a general rule of thumb I think it's wise however to keep them dry side for as short as possible and to check the fish is confident in swimming away.
 
As I said CANT REMEMBER what it was called !
all I know was he said Blah Blah was the equivalent to Adrenalin in humans and can be just as deadly

I should never have used the word Lactic acid as I could be confusing the issue!

as a schoolboy 1959) I used to Cycle to Sunbury on Thames and fish bunches of lobworm and catch the Barbel from near the open Air swimming pool then at 17 I had a motorcycle and discovered Carp
I have fished for them ever since for over 50 years
and know only too well you do not release the fish straight away you must rest them 1st
I now have come full circle and started fishing for Barbel again and I will take the up most care for any that I catch and to me that will mean resting the fish in the net for 5 mins or until I am certain he or she is ready to go
 
That's the spirit, Gerry. You can't buy 50 years of angling experience.
Good luck with the barbel. Which river(s) will you be fishing? :)
 
well I recently fished a 3 nights on guest tickets on the Tidal Trent ( one of my fishing pals moved up there) but the club only allows a few guest tickets a year sadly
I managed to catch a PB of 10lb though big smile !
most of my old fishing mates have past away
and while fishing solo has never bothered me in the past in fact I fish far better on my own but now in my 70`s I dont feel comfortable fishing the Thames at night on my own
a chap I heard about only in his 40`s had his rods stolen by a group of youths and left blooded so its made me realise my limitations
 
Gerry Giles said:
As I said CANT REMEMBER what it was called !
all I know was he said Blah Blah was the equivalent to Adrenalin in humans and can be just as deadly

I should never have used the word Lactic acid as I could be confusing the issue!

as a schoolboy 1959) I used to Cycle to Sunbury on Thames and fish bunches of lobworm and catch the Barbel from near the open Air swimming pool then at 17 I had a motorcycle and discovered Carp
I have fished for them ever since for over 50 years
and know only too well you do not release the fish straight away you must rest them 1st
I now have come full circle and started fishing for Barbel again and I will take the up most care for any that I catch and to me that will mean resting the fish in the net for 5 mins or until I am certain he or she is ready to go
Click to expand...

I'm not getting at you mate, I'm just pointing out it's seems a flawed logic in the basis. I cannot see any scientific reason why a prolonged net rest(beyond recovery of breathing etc) has a large impact on recovery, other than predation. Once a fish is strong enough to swim away, the next stress to remove is the human. The faster that fish is back in the shoal or snag the better stress wise.

I admire your willingness to care and I share the opinion. Just not convinced prolonging that human contact time is important improvement in fish care.
 
Jeff Collins said:
What are you saying Ray?
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I think he's saying :

If any creature has a brain...it can get brain damage... in more ways than just one and at different degrees and effects. In my opinion, this post/thread highlights just one probable cause which could affect the barbel's health, well being and it's ability to survive.

I could be wrong though Jeff.
 
In my experience...Some barbel do not recover fully even after resting up in the net for longer periods. With unseen gassed up fish, they will go off seemingly ok, but as they swim deeper to get to the bottom, the trapped air pressure inside forces them back to the surface (just like a balloon in water), to where they turn belly up, float downstream and usually die, which is usually unseen by the captor. Gassed up fish are usually caused by bringing/playing the fish up from deep water to quickly or by having it out of the water too long, but there may be other reasons too. In the recovery net, barbel have to regain their balance and stabilise themselves, as they can be disorientated. If they tilt over on their side or on their back, they are not ready to go. A good tip is to monitor and check their 'Eyes' to see if each one moves 'downwards' and back and forth when you tilt the barbel's body slightly side to side. If the eyes don't move and are 'fixed' when tilting, then the barbel has not recovered and is not ready for release. You can do this in the water/net. As mentioned before, the barbel can seemingly go off ok, but they can instinctively go under weedbeds for cover or in deeper slacks to rest up and recover further. Here, on some occassions, they can still turn belly up on the bottom and out of sight, unseen by the angler. Always best to keep looking out after release (with your landing net handy) to see if the barbel re-surfaces or is in trouble. As Graham say's, rubbing the barbel's belly can help to get rid of some of the air, but sometimes not all of it, which can be an unseen problem after releasing.
 
Thanks Ray. Do you understand now Jeff?? Just, when you DO catch a barbel Jeff, take great care with your handling of it.
 
Excellent! We await your copious reports of 7lb+ chub with bated breath Jeff. GO for it son, sort 'em out boy. We wait in awe and admiration.
 
Terry Simner said:
Excellent! We await your copious reports of 7lb+ chub with bated breath Jeff. GO for it son, sort 'em out boy. We wait in awe and admiration.
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Funnily enough Terry, the infamous Mr Doherty has been on a chub quest of late. He's just as good at catching chub as he is barbel, and has banked 5, yes FIVE chub over six pounds in just ten days, and then topped it with a 7lb fish last week. Of course, the only pictures are ones on grass or a keepnet bag, and the only one he's posed with being a 5lb fish, as, according to him the others have been "too big to get his hands around".....despite him being able to get the same hands around a 17lb barbel.

He's my hero.
 
John Care said:
Funnily enough Terry, the infamous Mr Doherty has been on a chub quest of late. He's just as good at catching chub as he is barbel, and has banked 5, yes FIVE chub over six pounds in just ten days, and then topped it with a 7lb fish last week. Of course, the only pictures are ones on grass or a keepnet bag, and the only one he's posed with being a 5lb fish, as, according to him the others have been "too big to get his hands around".....despite him being able to get the same hands around a 17lb barbel.

He's my hero.
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Sounds like an angling God.

Best one I had was a lad when asked if he was doing OK told me he had a 23lb barbel from the teme. I said that's a record mate.

I've had bigger he replied.:rolleyes:
 
Were you guiding him Jeff. Was he one of your acolytes?
Maybe Mr Doherty is too?

Are they the 'Peters' to you..their 'Mr Crabtree'?
 
The 'topic' has been answered...it's neither a "wind up", or a "random rant". Ray never said it in the first place.
Its just all been mischief making, with a bit of character slurring thrown in for good measure
...... IHMO
 
Terry Simner said:
The 'topic' has been answered...it's neither a "wind up", or a "random rant". Ray never said it in the first place.
Its just all been mischief making, with a bit of character slurring thrown in for good measure
...... IHMO
Click to expand...



Agreed Terry but it doesn't take away from the fact that damage can be done by keeping fish out of water for prolonged periods, often for selfish egotistical reasons. I don't know of any research that has looked at how much damage can happen to a fish or how long it needs to be out of the water before damage starts to happen, is there any?

The thread had started to develop from the original post but seemed for whatever reason to go off track altogether taking away from a very important subject.
 
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