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Severn river trust

Your last post Bobby appears to contradict your first post on this thread....... Has the wind changed direction or something....

One of the reasons why BFW shines more brightly than FB when it comes to deeply emotive debates such as this, is that for the most part, people are cordial in battle and mostly keep on topic. If this debate was taking place on FB the thread would have been closed down days ago to prevent digital disharmony escalating into fisticuffs in an Aldi car park.

I think we should avoid the temptation to resort to personal provocation and encourage all to participate fully in a debate on a very important matter. Full credit to Bobby in my view for posting again on this thread expressing an evolved view after hearing the concerns of many stakeholders. That's a mature and necessary approach in my view.

Full credit to you and Lawrence (plus others of course) though Rich for drawing meaningful attention to the issue of Powick weir.
 
Thanks Howard I appreciate those comments, our aim, through lobbying, debate and persuasion is to get the decision to remove Powick weir reversed, whilst there are some heavyweight to take on in the form of the EA and the SRT and others, we believe its the right thing to do, nothing personal just something we believe in, the response we have had on our Facebook page (Save Powick Weir) has been encouraging, but its early days, there is a long way to go, if we fail, well at least we had a go, I hope we can get the Barbel Society to support us, I know individuals within the society do support us, but onward and upwards as they say.......
 
One of the reasons why BFW shines more brightly than FB when it comes to deeply emotive debates such as this, is that for the most part, people are cordial in battle and mostly keep on topic. If this debate was taking place on FB the thread would have been closed down days ago to prevent digital disharmony escalating into fisticuffs in an Aldi car park.

I think we should avoid the temptation to resort to personal provocation and encourage all to participate fully in a debate on a very important matter. Full credit to Bobby in my view for posting again on this thread expressing an evolved view after hearing the concerns of many stakeholders. That's a mature and necessary approach in my view.

Full credit to you and Lawrence (plus others of course) though Rich for drawing meaningful attention to the issue of Powick weir.

I agree Howard..... Good to see at least there has been a change from the attitude displayed earlier in the debate on here. I would be interesting to see if Pete Reading's attitude has mellowed since a few facts have been unearthed. Time will tell but with luck the BS will support our goal to save Powick Weir....... Rather than supporting its demise.
Thanks again Howard.
 
I agree Howard..... Good to see at least there has been a change from the attitude displayed earlier in the debate on here. I would be interesting to see if Pete Reading's attitude has mellowed since a few facts have been unearthed. Time will tell but with luck the BS will support our goal to save Powick Weir....... Rather than supporting its demise.
Thanks again Howard.

The unearthed facts being what exactly Rich? And to be fair, the thrust of Pete Reading's post was principally to address some unnecessary ad-hominen comments aimed at the SRT staff.
 
The unearthed facts being what exactly Rich? And to be fair, the thrust of Pete Reading's post was principally to address some unnecessary ad-hominen comments aimed at the SRT staff.

I was going to say the exact same myself, Joe.
 
I can understand reasons for not removing the weir, can they be listed?

I can understand reasons for removing the weir can they be listed?

Has there been a design for removal been put in place?

For me a structure that spans a suitable distance would still benefit all species?

It should not be about "just removing the weir"

Would the "no's" back such and help design such a project?
 
Yes Chris Ponsford is with us, he is against the weirs removal for the same reasons we have put forward, he is a supporter of our campaign as is Dilip Sakar
 
the main reasons (official) for removing the weir, is to return the Teme to its natural state (?) and create a river of pools, riffles and shallows, they say it will help develop a new spawning site for the Shad as there are only a handful in the country, the downside of this is that it will reduce the level above the weir by 1.5 mtrs many miles upstream and in times of drought will create a river of stagnant pools, connected by shallow riffles, just as the upper Teme suffers every summer and the EA will have to rescue 1000's of fish, their summerised impact study's, have confirmed that the effects will be considerable on the coarse fisheries above Powick weir and will cause initial severe bank erosion, all fish stocks will become even more vulnerable to predators, the Teme to me will become (as the years go by) none viable as a coarse fishery, its planned to remove the whole of the weir and the surrounding concrete structures, the "no's" suggest that the weir should be repaired and a baffled fish pass put in for migratory species, but in saying that, migratory species have had little problem over 100's of years in ascending Powick or any other weir, thats how the barbel got in from the Severn, they just swam over the weir in times of flood, suggested reasons for creating a Shad spawning site is a ruse to get financial support from the likes of Natural England, Heritage Lottery and the EA, we believe its all about flood defence, as Chris Ponsford stated it will destroy the Teme, because the Teme has no compensation water to draw off in times of drought, the weir at Powick has had fish passes put in since records began, as long ago as the 1890's, its is also a historical and archaeological site, reflecting the battle Worcester and the industrial revolution.
 
I presume Trefor's 'on-side' too Lol?

Re. returning the river to its "natural state"... I'd have thought the Teme was a fair bit wider now (i.e. having suffered more erosion) than in its 'pre-industrial revolution' days, so more water is now needed so as to fill it (if you know what I mean!) But aren't we getting less rain now than they used to in pre-industrial revolution times? Dunno. What I'm trying to say is: surely there can be no definitive 'natural state' as all rivers are ever changing, and weirs are only a single factor in those changes that befall it.
It appears to be a high-risk 'experiment'...with maybe the EA etc committed, but only the river's inhabitants truly and fully 'involved'.
 
I havent spoke to Trefor myself about it Terry, but I know he is on side from what others have said, the biggest problem with the Teme regarding water volume is abstraction, so the last thing the the Teme wants is to lose more water, once the level does drop, it will leave willow roots exposed, banks will dry out so when the rains do come they will be washed away more, the biggest changes to the Teme in modern times was when the NRA vandals of the mid 90's, where they ripped up trees, pulled out sunken trees, hacked back trees and straitened bends, they did this under the title of "flood defence", all we got was bigger floods and an explosion of Himalayan balsam now they spend a fortune on putting what they call "woody debris" into the river to create much needed natraul habitat and to hold the flood waters back to help the water dissipate at a slower rate, yep and they want to remove weirs......crazy.
 
the downside of this is that it will reduce the level above the weir by 1.5 mtrs many miles upstream and in times of drought will create a river of stagnant pools, connected by shallow riffles, just as the upper Teme suffers every summer and the EA will have to rescue 1000's of fish,

I don't go with that, there would have to be some shocking engineering going on for that to happen.
 
Assuming they want to remove the weir is to try and prevent flooding further upstream ?
Then one alternative would be to replace it with a sluice gate with fish passes ? Then they could control the levels up and down when the needs arise .
 
I don't go with that, there would have to be some shocking engineering going on for that to happen.

The "1.5m" is E.A. etc's figure, not Lol's, Jason. How far upstream that 1.5m pertains to may be debatable, but it won't do Beck's (and Cotheridge etc??) any good...and that's for sure.
 
Good evening gents,

Where is the paper work for all this? Somebody has to have done the numerical modelling for them to come up with an exact figure of 1.5 metres up to Knightwick. It's done for all projects to find out hydraulic and geomorphological impacts......where is it? Someone has access to it if they're quoting precise figures. I'm genuinely quite keen to have a read!
 
The "1.5m" is E.A. etc's figure, not Lol's, Jason. How far upstream that 1.5m pertains to may be debatable, but it won't do Beck's (and Cotheridge etc??) any good...and that's for sure.

Hi Terry,

Do you have a link for the report citing the '1.5m' levels drop - presumably this is the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) report which is a legal requirement for a project of this nature.

Cheers,

Joe
 
Good evening gents,

Where is the paper work for all this? Somebody has to have done the numerical modelling for them to come up with an exact figure of 1.5 metres. It's done for all projects to find out hydraulic and geomorphological impacts......where is it? Someone has it if they're quoting precise figures.

Sorry Bobby - our posts must have crossed! But your spot on, I would expect the EIA to have fully modelled out the predicted changes in water level and flow speed.
 
I think a lot of what is being discussed in opposing the removal of the weir here is pure supposition.
 
So let me get this straight, they want to remove a low weir which is in a bit of a state and this will reduce the rivers hight by 1.5m between Powick and Knightwick. Roughly 15 miles between them makes it 100 mm, or 4inch per mile, which doesn't sound a lot to me.
 
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