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Ian, I have on several occasions spoke to my club regarding habitat improvement, and re-planting etc, also Ive offered to put signs up in multiple languages only to be told- 'we'll talk about it and I'll give you a call'
never hearing from them again.
A lot of club members only want to reap the benefits of a nice stretch/water but not many, including the club, want to do anything to preserve it.
but anyway- thats for another moaning thread!!;)
 
Steven, I hope I didn't come across as having a dig at you, I wasn't, just took an opportunity to say what I felt.

Regarding your club, don't give up, get on their back and stay on their back, some committees are stuck in the dark ages too........
 
Until an organisation/governing body carries out an investigation, gathers evidence and does something about it then you can moan all you like. (not aimed at an individual)
 
It's all been said before but we'll go there again.

How many of us are in "the angling trust"?

I'm embarrased to say that i have only recently joined as i couldn't live with myself any longer if i hadn't.
Angling is in the state it's in because we, as a group of people, are too busy bickering amongst ourselves. The anti angling brigade must be laughing their socks off.

As for EE's, whilst it's wrong to say they're all the same, it's fairly obvious from personal and anecdotal evidence, that there is a major issue here. As for otters and canoeists, don't get me started!

We need to get it together and sort some of these issues out.

Big hugs to everyone,

Jeff
 
We have all heard the horror stories, fish taking en-mass, netting etc, but who has actually seen any of this activity????
I,ve seen plenty of EE types fishing in gangs, barbies going etc, but I,ve never seen a fish caught except for one jack pike, which was unhooked, photographed and returned.Some of my happy hunting grounds are very pale shadows of there former selves, few fish , even bream are rare , down to EE,s? or is there something very wrong with the lower Thames?????? Post 2007 summer floods the river changed for the worse, no EA explanation/admitance of pollution etc.
The rumour mill is full of talk, but there is a certain detail missing in most of the talk-evidence!!!!!!
peter
 
Ian Crook said:
I actually have the opposite issue, I am sick of all the people ranting on about otters and EEs, threads that go pages and pages but if anyone posts anything about the REAL ISSUES facing our rivers, like abstraction, effluent protein skimming, control of released pollutants, and habitat destruction they are lucky to get more than a dozen replies..........

Everyone seems very keen to bang their chests and shout at others but ask them to actually do anything, they run for the hills, most just want to complain because they go fishing and blank and it is because of EEs and otters, what total and utter trash!!!

It is not so long ago that most rivers had otters and most English people took fish for the table, although we had fewer people, less water demand and less sewage..........

Here we go, how about every BFW member only clean his car once a month and then with a bucket and not a hosepipe. Every BFW member contact your local club and tell them you want to give up one fishing session a month and do some habitat improvement, clearing, tidying work, etc...........
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Well there you go Ian. That is your opinion, and every man is entitled to that....it is just a shame you get so upset at times when other people express theirs. It is also a little unfair to utterly misquote people, and then claim they are talking "Total and utter trash" don't you think?

Nobody actually said that they were upset because they had just been fishing and blanked, and that this was all down to EE's, now did they? What they actually said was that they were sick of seeing indisputable evidence of EE poachers taking vast numbers of course fish from the waters that they, as legal anglers, pay good money to fish. To add insult to injury, it is plain that the authorities they pay their money to are doing very little about it. This practice may or may not completely destroy some fisheries if left uncontrolled....you will no doubt view the reports of the state of some EE fisheries with some scepticism.... Either way, I think you would need to be a little bit 'in denial', even for the most rabid of 'politically correct' head in the sand types to actually think it would do a fishery any good! So...I think in those circumstances they are quite justified in being a little upset, don't you?

As for the otter issue....well, that has been kicked about for long enough, hasn't it? It is something that is not going to go away, and as such we have no option but to accept it. I, and quite a few others, just find it a little.....'untimely' shall we say, that they were (in a minor way, I fully admit) artificially 'encouraged' to repopulate areas which were, for reasons you yourself quite rightly list, in no fit state to support an apex predator. Otters are of course part of our heritage, and as such have every right to be here....and I don't think you will find many denying that fact. The ONLY issue for many was the timing of the 'encouragement'....another example of unthinking people interfering with nature perhaps? Again, when there IS ample evidence of the harm that can ensue when a large predator is introduced to a fishery unable to support it (ask those who used to fish Adams mill for their thoughts on that)...then I for one cannot blame them for complaining.

Of course the issues of water quality and over abstraction are the major long term dangers facing our fisheries. They always have been, and sadly, probably always will be....the massive increase in our population due to government madness over the last eight or ten years will probably guarantee that. However, that doesn't mean that those other two issues you bought up and ridiculed are not valid as well. You may be surprised to learn that the fact that you see fit to label other peoples opinions as "Total and utter trash" does not automatically make them wrong.

That's only my opinion of course....and being a genial sort of bloke, I am actually quite happy for you to rant away to your hearts content if it pleases you Ian :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Jon, not being an expert in water treatment, my memories got mixed up a little there, I was actually referring to the pressure on water treatment companies these days to remove nutrients (not proteins) and estrogen from treated water. This as I understand requires quite a heavy investment but lower Phosphorus levels have been demonstrated to improve invertebrate life and hence fish life, estrogen stripping lowers the rate of sex change in fish populations, giving more chance of there being sufficient male fish to fertilise eggs, a big problem in river roach and dace populations in particular, as I understand.
 
I did a thread about this sort of business the other week, and to be honest I think it needs to right people to pull there finger out turn up on the banks and prosecute anyone caught taking fish, killing fish, or mistreating fish and also the litter bugs should be prosecuted with an on the spot fine if caught. We can all stop this happening whilst we are there by standing up to them and having a polite word with the offenders, signs, notice boards etc is a complete waste of money imo. But the EA would rather go about stunning rivers and going mad with chainsaws than actually keeping the rivers in tip top shape, how often do we get clobbered for a license check these days??? My answer to that is once every blue moon (unless I'm just one that seems to miss the times they are out)?
Regards
 
David Gauntlett said:
Well there you go Ian. That is your opinion, and every man is entitled to that....it is just a shame you get so upset at times when other people express theirs. It is also a little unfair to utterly misquote people, and then claim they are talking "Total and utter trash" don't you think?

Nobody actually said that they were upset because they had just been fishing and blanked, and that this was all down to EE's, now did they? What they actually said was that they were sick of seeing indisputable evidence of EE poachers taking vast numbers of course fish from the waters that they, as legal anglers, pay good money to fish. To add insult to injury, it is plain that the authorities they pay their money to are doing very little about it. This practice may or may not completely destroy some fisheries if left uncontrolled....you will no doubt view the reports of the state of some EE fisheries with some scepticism.... Either way, I think you would need to be a little bit 'in denial', even for the most rabid of 'politically correct' head in the sand types to actually think it would do a fishery any good! So...I think in those circumstances they are quite justified in being a little upset, don't you?

As for the otter issue....well, that has been kicked about for long enough, hasn't it? It is something that is not going to go away, and as such we have no option but to accept it. I, and quite a few others, just find it a little.....'untimely' shall we say, that they were (in a minor way, I fully admit) artificially 'encouraged' to repopulate areas which were, for reasons you yourself quite rightly list, in no fit state to support an apex predator. Otters are of course part of our heritage, and as such have every right to be here....and I don't think you will find many denying that fact. The ONLY issue for many was the timing of the 'encouragement'....another example of unthinking people interfering with nature perhaps? Again, when there IS ample evidence of the harm that can ensue when a large predator is introduced to a fishery unable to support it (ask those who used to fish Adams mill for their thoughts on that)...then I for one cannot blame them for complaining.

Of course the issues of water quality and over abstraction are the major long term dangers facing our fisheries. They always have been, and sadly, probably always will be....the massive increase in our population due to government madness over the last eight or ten years will probably guarantee that. However, that doesn't mean that those other two issues you bought up and ridiculed are not valid as well. You may be surprised to learn that the fact that you see fit to label other peoples opinions as "Total and utter trash" does not automatically make them wrong.

That's only my opinion of course....and being a genial sort of bloke, I am actually quite happy for you to rant away to your hearts content if it pleases you Ian :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
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David,

No rant here, just taking a chance to share some thoughts with the hope they might trigger the grey matter in some of us to think a little wider.

Anyway, back to the subject, no one actually said they had seen fish being removed, they said someone had said "talking to a fishing guide that is connected to the WUF who told them that “Black Bin Liners Full Of Barbel” have been removed from the fishery from the opposite bank by Eastern europeans! If this is true then this is extremely worrying!"

So, third hand info, certainly not that some had seen with their own eyes......

I totally agree with you on Otters but there is little we can do now about that, we can only focus on improving the stocks of fish in the waters on which they prey......

Most poachers on the local waters round here are of the Travelling variety, certainly not eastern european, although there are many thousands of them working in the area. In fact there is a huge fruit farm on the banks of the Lower Loddon, have fished it many, many times and never seen or heard of any of the 500 or so workers fishing the river........
 
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Dave your comment bout my post was right , seen the ostriches and the deflectors ,
 
No probs Ian - its a term that could be used in a sense regarding the treatment of ammonia, a derivative of urea arising from the deamination of protein. Treatment of ammnia is fairly straight forward being a standard treatment by nitrification.

Phosphorus removal is more to address eutrophication a term well known. Removal of phosphorus is by precipitation normally using aluminium or iron complexes or by relatively novel biological phosphorus removal within tweaked activated sludge plants. Inhibition of eutrophication by limiting phosphorus improves diversity & abundance of aquatic species.

Natural and synthetic estrogen compounds are important micropollutants that can affect endocrine systems, and have been associated with feminisation of male fish at concentrations below 1.0 ng/L (one part per trillion!). Wastewater influent concentrations of estrogen compounds are in the range of 50 - 200 ng/L, and observed removals at full scale wastewater treatment facilities have varied from 40-95%. Though estrogen removal at full-scale facilities is attributed to biodegradation, the bacteria responsible for their degradation and factors that affect their performance are not well understood. Both regulation & further research is required on this matter as well as finding alternative manufacturing methods & materials that can cause such pollution. If the water companies are forced to treat effluent to remove such pollutants then the cost burden will be on the customer.
 
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Jon Whelan said:
No probs Ian - its a term that could be used in a sense regarding the treatment of ammonia, a derivative of urea arising from the deamination of protein. Treatment of ammnia is fairly straight forward being a standard treatment by nitrification.

Phosphorus removal is more to address eutrophication a term well known. Removal of phosphorus is by precipitation normally using aluminium or iron complexes or by relatively novel biological phosphorus removal within tweaked activated sludge plants. Inhibition of eutrophication by limiting phosphorus improves diversity & abundance of aquatic species.

Natural and synthetic estrogen compounds are important micropollutants that can affect endocrine systems, and have been associated with feminisation of male fish at concentrations below 1.0 ng/L (one part per trillion!). Wastewater influent concentrations of estrogen compounds are in the range of 50 - 200 ng/L, and observed removals at full scale wastewater treatment facilities have varied from 40-95%. Though estrogen removal at full-scale facilities is attributed to biodegradation, the bacteria responsible for their degradation and factors that affect their performance are not well understood. Both regulation & further research is required on this matter as well as finding alternative manufacturing methods & materials that can cause such pollution. If the water companies are forced to treat effluent to remove such pollutants then the cost burden will be on the customer.
Click to expand...

Jon,

Thanks, that all sounds very much like the talk I attended a couple of years ago, I fully understand the burden will be on us, but it is us that are causing the problems and if that comes with a price then I, for one would realise I have to pay it. That is part of the point I am trying to make, we all (myself included sometimes) like to complain about things but when it comes to the realisation that it is us that are causing the problems, and we (people, not just anglers) CAN do something about it, we are not prepared to give up our luxuries for the sake of the environment.....
 
Ian Crook said:
Jon,

Thanks, that all sounds very much like the talk I attended a couple of years ago, I fully understand the burden will be on us, but it is us that are causing the problems and if that comes with a price then I, for one would realise I have to pay it. That is part of the point I am trying to make, we all (myself included sometimes) like to complain about things but when it comes to the realisation that it is us that are causing the problems, and we (people, not just anglers) CAN do something about it, we are not prepared to give up our luxuries for the sake of the environment.....
Click to expand...

Again, fair comment & I concur with the statement that self responsibility is the key to addressing such evolving eventualities
 
Ian Crook said:
David,

No rant here, just taking a chance to share some thoughts with the hope they might trigger the grey matter in some of us to think a little wider, not your good self of course :D :D

I actually think it must make your day when I post, itching to jump in and knock me down a peg or two, I wonder if you'd be so brave face to face.............

Anyway, back to the subject, no one actually said they had seen fish being removed, they said someone had said "talking to a fishing guide that is connected to the WUF who told them that “Black Bin Liners Full Of Barbel” have been removed from the fishery from the opposite bank by Eastern europeans! If this is true then this is extremely worrying!"

So, third hand info, certainly not that some had seen with their own eyes......

I totally agree with you on Otters but there is little we can do now about that, we can only focus on improving the stocks of fish in the waters on which they prey......

Most poachers on the local waters round here are of the Travelling variety, certainly not eastern european, although there are many thousands of them working in the area. In fact there is a huge fruit farm on the banks of the Lower Loddon, have fished it many, many times and never seen or heard of any of the 500 or so workers fishing the river........
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"No rant here" Ian? Hmmmm...seems to me that any thread condemning other peoples honest opinions as "Total and utter trash" can fairly be labelled as a rant....however, I will leave that for others to judge.

"I actually think it must make your day when I post, itching to jump in and knock me down a peg or two, I wonder if you'd be so brave face to face............."

Firstly, I think you will find that of the two of us, I actually posted first in this thread, followed closely by yourself, and few can be in any doubt that your first post was in part at least in response to mine. As for my "itching to knock you down a peg or two"....I can assure you dear boy, it was never further from my mind. For some time now I have in fact avoided replying to any post you made, precisely because of your violent reaction to even the most innocuous comments I made in the past....I do believe if anyone can be bothered, they will see the truth in that claim....care to try? Your last comment in the above paragraph is perhaps the most telling Ian....

So, third hand info, certainly not that some had seen with their own eyes......

That incident may well be third hand, and may also even prove to be incorrect...but the point is, there is plenty of evidence out there that IS proven to be factual....and you know that as well as I do Ian.

Anway...enough of that. The fact is fella, I certainly do not have any kind of grudge or personal agenda concerning you....I rather thought that for reasons I could not begin to comprehend, the reverse was actually the case. Whatever....you have your opinions, and I have mine. Lets try not to let those differences lower the levels of this forum any further....OK?

Cheers, Dave.
 
Ian Crook said:
I actually have the opposite issue, I am sick of all the people ranting on about otters and EEs, threads that go pages and pages but if anyone posts anything about the REAL ISSUES facing our rivers, like abstraction, effluent protein skimming, control of released pollutants, and habitat destruction they are lucky to get more than a dozen replies..........

Everyone seems very keen to bang their chests and shout at others but ask them to actually do anything, they run for the hills, most just want to complain because they go fishing and blank and it is because of EEs and otters, what total and utter trash!!!

It is not so long ago that most rivers had otters and most English people took fish for the table, although we had fewer people, less water demand and less sewage..........

Here we go, how about every BFW member only clean his car once a month and then with a bucket and not a hosepipe. Every BFW member contact your local club and tell them you want to give up one fishing session a month and do some habitat improvement, clearing, tidying work, etc...........
Click to expand...

If you look at the number of views on this thread and it's locked predecessor 4,000 + , most of the comments being negative sniping and petty arguing and some way from the original intention of the thread . As Ian says above ,the ''real issues''seem to generate a lot less interest , e.g Ray Waltons thread on disturbing habitat destruction on the H Avon which has been on the go since the 24th of September , total views 980 . I sometimes think that many on BFW just look in to see if there is a good argument on the go ..
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
If you look at the number of views on this thread and it's locked predecessor 4,000 + , most of the comments being negative sniping and petty arguing and some way from the original intention of the thread . As Ian says above ,the ''real issues''seem to generate a lot less interest , e.g Ray Waltons thread on disturbing habitat destruction on the H Avon which has been on the go since the 24th of September , total views 980 . I sometimes think that many on BFW just look in to see if there is a good argument on the go ..
Click to expand...

I can't argue with your comments Mike, and I apologise for getting a little carried away here and adding to the problem you have quite rightly highlighted. I further agree with your point regarding Rays threads....in fact I despair at the lack of support Ray has for his campaigns on these issues. I have supported him to the best of my abilities on some previous occasions in the past, especially when he is being torn to pieces by those who disagree with his views, but it does no good I fear....some just condemn the man for being passionate and caring about 'his' river :(

Once again, apologies for dragging this thread off course.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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