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Reasons for Barbel population decline

If the Barbel are sterile for what ever the reason ? The the only way to find out Is to test male and female fish and carry out a autopsy on male and female fish and try and find out the reason why ?
 
Exactly Joe, its clear there is a problem so its up to the EA/AT and the BS to sit down together and sort it out.....we cant do anymore, we have supplied a consensus of an opinion and it needs further investigation.... I feel very frustrated just at the thought of nothing being done ....
 
I agree Loz, but the last thing we need is to come across as nutty 'conspiracy theorists', relying totally on conjecture. Its another thread, another ingredient, in the otter/floods/E.E./cyclic mix of potential factors on the now 'obvious to all' decline in barbel populations.
 
although i am utterly enthralled catching barbel and watching them i am not very
educated n regards the average size barbel are or age when they start reproducing, i was/am still under the impression they dont begin reproducing until they are around 6 years old, now all these bleedin otters and things if killing the larger species 1st then surely they are putting the kiss of death on the ones that they dont eat, imagine a stretch where theres only a smallish number of larger barbel that reproduce, surely this means if theres a decimation of these then in theory it could take at least 6 years for them to manage to reproduce more barbel fry,
the young fish that didn,t get munched up, knowing barbel are relatively slow growing fish then it could possibly be a case of having to wait 6 years for the next generation of tiddlersthen another 6 years to hopefully reach a 6/7lber.
kill all those luvly furry beggars, then our beautiful barbel may get a chance to enjoy some grown up games once a year:)
 
Hi John,
Thanks for your response...
All meats are cultured to meet demand..
Most meat producers are happy to admit that we now use steroids to replace Certain Vitamins to enhance meat/muscle growth..
Back to the thread,
Barbel fishing is changing on some Rivers for a very long time to come..

Many factors all play a key part..

No one will agree on any main Factor because there are so many..

Enjoy what is left...
 
OK
John Walker said:
although i am utterly enthralled catching barbel and watching them i am not very
educated n regards the average size barbel are or age when they start reproducing, i was/am still under the impression they dont begin reproducing until they are around 6 years old, now all these bleedin otters and things if killing the larger species 1st then surely they are putting the kiss of death on the ones that they dont eat, imagine a stretch where theres only a smallish number of larger barbel that reproduce, surely this means if theres a decimation of these then in theory it could take at least 6 years for them to manage to reproduce more barbel fry,
the young fish that didn,t get munched up, knowing barbel are relatively slow growing fish then it could possibly be a case of having to wait 6 years for the next generation of tiddlersthen another 6 years to hopefully reach a 6/7lber.
kill all those luvly furry beggars, then our beautiful barbel may get a chance to enjoy some grown up games once a year:)[/QUOTE

Reckon the slaughter house mentality has got the better of you. Otter are here to stay, they are deemed a great success and are the poster boys of the conservation types , we as Anglers will have to adapt and hopefully push for some control on number's by organised culling.

Reckon that's the best we can hope for.
Click to expand...
 
Terry. Absolutely. Just a theory.

I worked the timescale of potential reasons backwards looking at timescales for causitive effects.

Based on recruitment drop off 15-10 years ago causing declines of fish especially in the 3-8lb range reflected over the past 5 or so years by many.

The fish that should have spawned those fish are the heavyweight specimens showing now.

Hope thats understandable. I did state at the outset regards loses from predation and natural events.
Ie floods.

Graham
 
Yes Graham..am with you. Its just that I don't think it would be helpful if anglers got to thinking that some 'proof' had been found (already)..and thinking "Ah, so THAT'S what's caused the problem", when at present we're no nearer to establishing the root cause/causes than we were (say) 2 years ago.
I thought that AT had some PhD student looking into, at least some of, the possible causes of the decline?
 
Terry, the Angling Trust via the EA, Bournemouth University the Severn Rivers Trust and Barbel Society are financing a Phd study on Teme mouth around the Powick area, it will not specifically look at the Barbels decline on that river, although the structure of the study has yet to be decided, but it will look at populations I am sure...thats my understanding, but i could be wrong
 
Terry/Lawrence, the PhD is funded by Bournemouth University, Severn Rivers Trust, EA and Barbel Society, and will be studying the barbel populations of the whole of the Teme barbel zone.
The student will be circulating an online return form for both historical and future catch data as part of the study, so all Teme barbel anglers can help to supply information for this. Catch returns from the past will be particularly helpful. More details very shortly, both on here and the BS website.

The BS is also supporting and helping to fund another PhD study into UK barbel populations, now in it`s second year. This study is looking at national data, but has a primary focus on the Gt Ouse.

So, there is a good deal of research on barbel populations going on already, along with some habitat work and support stocking. There is a summary on the BS website of all the BS work, but it should be noted that all UK river catchments are undergoing a big shake-up at the moment under the Catchment Based Approach project, mostly funded by Defra, with support from EA and water companies too.
Check out the CaBA section on your local EA regions; lots of clubs, Rivers Trusts, Wildlife Trusts etc involved.

Pete
 
Well it's excellent that Pete Reading, the key player in the BS Research and Development section has come on here recognising the concerns that the members of BFW and other media have clearly highlighted in the Countrywide Population Survey.


Also an opportunity to underpin the work currently being Joint ventured on various catchment areas.

Graham
 
good news that serious research is being done but will be heavily reliant on anecdotal evidence.
In addition to rivers where the Barbel numbers have crashed it would be useful to be also running a study somewhere, if anywhere that Barbel are still plentiful
A study starting 3-4 years ago on the Kennet for example would have had a lot of useful data by now. There is an element of examining the stable after the horse has bolted about the Gt Ouse and Teme but hopefully will still throw up some useful data to help understand what has/is happening.
 
Its a start Robert, but since those individual projects have started, things have moved on at a pace, with the situation now worse on some rivers, with the Teme being a good example, whilst the Severn is turning up fewer, but bigger fish, the noticeable year gaps of the Barbel is very profound and is still like that, I believe the problem with the Teme is the fact that the Severn is in decline in its Barbel population and because numbers are down, especially on the lower river, Barbel are not going up the Teme as they once did, yes we have seen a few big fish come off the lower river this last season, but we mustn't be confused here and think there isnt problem , as I see it once these bigger, older fish have gone, there appears nothing coming through to take their place, the absence of 7, 8 and 9 pound Barbel on the lower river is profound, just as the absence of 5's, 6's and 7's compared to what there was on the middle river, but at least people are listening and I hope it is investigated PDQ, I have said many times its easier to catch a 10 pound Barbel than two 5 pounders on some rivers...
 
Lawrence Breakspear said:
Its a start Robert, but since those individual projects have started, things have moved on at a pace, with the situation now worse on some rivers, with the Teme being a good example, whilst the Severn is turning up fewer, but bigger fish, the noticeable year gaps of the Barbel is very profound and is still like that, I believe the problem with the Teme is the fact that the Severn is in decline in its Barbel population and because numbers are down, especially on the lower river, Barbel are not going up the Teme as they once did, yes we have seen a few big fish come off the lower river this last season, but we mustn't be confused here and think there isnt problem , as I see it once these bigger, older fish have gone, there appears nothing coming through to take their place, the absence of 7, 8 and 9 pound Barbel on the lower river is profound, just as the absence of 5's, 6's and 7's compared to what there was on the middle river, but at least people are listening and I hope it is investigated PDQ, I have said many times its easier to catch a 10 pound Barbel than two 5 pounders on some rivers...
Click to expand...

To add a note of good news to this, and to contradict the idea that smaller Barbel are not being caught I can report they are still there. There is a angler that fishes the Lower a lot and he reports that he has had Barbel in the 6/7 lb stamp on many occasions this season. I have had a few, together with the larger specimens.

As to why the Barbel do not enter the Teme system could be a number of reasons, and could well be attributed to lack of numbers, but if this was the cause one would expect to see some fish spawning on the gravels, which leads me to the huge change the river suffered post 2007 probably had some cause.

As it would seem the only reason that Barbel enter the team is to spawn then it is no surprise the river is virtually devoid of them.
 
Is the historical data from the EA regarding electro-fishing results freely available? This would surely show any changes in average fish size and any changes in the Bio-mass of fish populations etc over a period of time? I assume this has already been considered? Stretches of the Bristol Avon and Kennet that I fished in the Naughties were electro-fished annually I believe, and there must be some good hard info available from that. Just a thought.
Darren
 
Please add the Thames valley to the view that the situation has got worse on some rivers. KENNET THAMES WINDRUSH COLNE LODDON THAME etc etc.

In reality the Severn is far more productive though in decline compared with 10 -15 years ago.

On the Kennet and Loddon fish under 7lb are rare than those over 12lb.

As the Kennet as Rob says, is the Mother of so many barbel over the years it's decline is even more disturbing.

The Bristol Avon and the Teme are really suffering. Feel even more sorrow for those local anglers
 
Neil, I dont think I have said there are no small Barbel being caught on the Severn, either the middle of the river or the lower below Worcester, I and colleagues have had them ourselves, what I have said however, is that numbers are significantly down on what they were and continually appear to decline which each passing year, you only have to look at the match results around the Bewdley area of recent years, 15 years ago you would have needed 100lb plus to win a match on the middle Severn, these catches were made up of predominantly Barbel and you would have the lesser catches not even getting in the money with 65lb weights, now matches are won with 35lb of a mixed bag, mainly Chub, Roach, Perch.....and maybe just maybe a couple Barbel, that speaks for its self in my eyes and justify's our concern
 
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