• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Otter Petition

What I find odd is the fact that the RSPB remain silent on the subject .
If they know Otters are having such a impact on ground nesting birds ?
I would of thought that being such a well respected organisation .
That people would take notice of there views on the subject .
So why have they kept silent ? My guess is because they know it a none starter ?
 
RSPB are keeping quiet because they know the real problem is the piscivorous birds that have cleared our rivers of all the otter food!
This petition is only going to give the anti-angling brigade more ammunition, not a good idea.
 
Petition to prevent an ecological disaster to wildlife caused by the Otter (lutra lutra)

Responsible department: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

The illegal release of otters is posing a potentially disastrous threat to Britain’s wildlife. On waterways otters are destroying fish stocks costing millions of pounds and taking many years to establish. These hand-reared predators have no fear of man and are invading urban areas attacking ornamental fish in private garden ponds. In Britain’s wetlands birds are finding their eggs and chicks destroyed by otters. In Norfolk the number of avocet is decreasing thanks to otter predation and Pensthorpe Nature Reserve, home of the BBC program Springwatch is being badly affected. The demise of the eel population means that eels are not available as food so otters have turned to other species of fish and birds including domestic species, as well as wildfowl. The otter is an apex predator, and unless steps are taken to control these illegal releases an ecological disaster looms. We also urge the Environment Agency to tackle the existing population of otters in the best way possible.

Seems to me there is more mention of birds than fish in the actual petition. How then is this going to give the anti angling brigade (who are they?) any ammunition?
 
A little conjecture for you, related to this thread.

A few facts to start you off. The RSPB have, for some time, been trying to spread their wings (bad pun). They now desperately want to be seen as the saviours of ALL wildlife, rather than sticking to their original remit. They state this quite clearly on all their many sites. Being the rather efficient money making machine that they are, the aaaaaah factor and good publicity potential surrounding otters did not escaped their notice. It wasn't long before pictures and articles devoted to this lovable animal were included in virtually everything they published. Google RSPB and check the otter sections...see here for a start.... The RSPB: Events: World Wetlands Day - Otterly Fantastic - FULLY BOOKED

However, I was told some months back that this stance on otters was being sorely tested, in fact was rapidly changing, due to the fact that these predators were wiping out the RSPB's flagship preservation project, namely the ultra rare Bittern. It seems that our cuddly little friend was killing adult birds and scoffing their eggs as well...now there is a surprise.

Now the conjecture bit. Judging by the plethora of otter related droolings still to be seen on the RSPB sites, it would seem that this change of heart has once again been reversed. One can only assume that they have weighed up the options and decided that in order to swell their membership (and their coffers...and thus the salaries of their executives), their best course of action would be to throw their wholehearted support behind otters. Of course, that would mean that the previous jewel in their crown, the bittern, would need to be sacrificed...but that seems to quite possibly be a step they are willing to take to achieve that aim. With heavy hearts of course. Quite how the bittern, not to mention numerous other endangered species such as water voles etc., feel about this apparent decision, we will of course never know.

All pure conjecture of course....undoubtedly not a word of truth in it.

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
A little conjecture for you, related to this thread.

A few facts to start you off. The RSPB have, for some time, been trying to spread their wings (bad pun). They now desperately want to be seen as the saviours of ALL wildlife, rather than sticking to their original remit. They state this quite clearly on all their many sites. Being the rather efficient money making machine that they are, the aaaaaah factor and good publicity potential surrounding otters did not escaped their notice. It wasn't long before pictures and articles devoted to this lovable animal were included in virtually everything they published. Google RSPB and check the otter sections...see here for a start.... The RSPB: Events: World Wetlands Day - Otterly Fantastic - FULLY BOOKED

However, I was told some months back that this stance on otters was being sorely tested, in fact was rapidly changing, due to the fact that these predators were wiping out the RSPB's flagship preservation project, namely the ultra rare Bittern. It seems that our cuddly little friend was killing adult birds and scoffing their eggs as well...now there is a surprise.

Now the conjecture bit. Judging by the plethora of otter related droolings still to be seen on the RSPB sites, it would seem that this change of heart has once again been reversed. One can only assume that they have weighed up the options and decided that in order to swell their membership (and their coffers...and thus the salaries of their executives), their best course of action would be to throw their wholehearted support behind otters. Of course, that would mean that the previous jewel in their crown, the bittern, would need to be sacrificed...but that seems to quite possibly be a step they are willing to take to achieve that aim. With heavy hearts of course. Quite how the bittern, not to mention numerous other endangered species such as water voles etc., feel about this apparent decision, we will of course never know.

All pure conjecture of course....undoubtedly not a word of truth in it.

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

David here is a bit more conjecture for you ?
Perhaps the RSPB in there wisdom know that being a society for the protection of birds ? That to start a debate on the impact of Otters on some species of birds ? and to suggest a cull . Would be a bit hypercritical ?

When you consider the stance they have against the culling of Cormorants ?
So it would be a bit hypercritical for them to start calling for a culling of Otters ?
 
Martin Gregory said:
Petition to prevent an ecological disaster to wildlife caused by the Otter (lutra lutra)

Responsible department: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

The illegal release of otters is posing a potentially disastrous threat to Britain’s wildlife.
Click to expand...

What evidence is there to support that opening statement? I can assure you that without definitive evidence to support it, that petition is sunk before it's even started. I'm all for predation control but that to me is a waste of time I'm afraid.
 
Nathan Walter said:
What evidence is there to support that opening statement? I can assure you that without definitive evidence to support it, that petition is sunk before it's even started. I'm all for predation control but that to me is a waste of time I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

probably is a waste of time, there has been little scientific investigation into the impact, itself a major failing of the conservationists myopic world. AS to evidence, i do not know Kent but in rivers in the Wessex region have been gutted, the BA, once you could almost walk across the river on the backs of Barbel, now hard to find 1. Video on youtube of an otter killing a heron, i believe more than 1 attack on adult swans has been witnessed. an otter was seen to take 3 fish in an afternoon on the Kennet, a chub a barbel and a pike, presumably eat a few ounces and then went back for more, clearance of a fallen tree on the Kennet revealed 6 dead Barbel, all with only a few bits of missing, and this from a stretch that already had a low population of Barbel, unfortunately most evidence is anecdotal as the scientific community doesnt want to get involved.
I dont know about a cull but the simple fact is you cannot introduce an apex predator without impact, especially when they are overstocked. The Kennet has had otters for many years (30+) so why did they put more in ?
The EA themselves along with Natural England ( i think ) have admitted otters have had a major impact on small rivers, they do not yet know why, and do not seem to be too keen to find out, also they have no idea how many there are out there.

i have signed it as if nothing else it might provoke a proper impact assessment of whats happening.
 
Last edited:
Robert Richbell said:
probably is a waste of time, there has been little scientific investigation into the impact, itself a major failing of the conservationists myopic world. AS to evidence, i do not know Kent but in rivers in the Wessex region have been gutted, the BA, once you could almost walk across the river on the backs of Barbel, now hard to find 1. Video on youtube of an otter killing a heron, i believe more than 1 attack on adult swans has been witnessed. an otter was seen to take 3 fish in an afternoon on the Kennet, a chub a barbel and a pike, presumably eat a few ounces and then went back for more, clearance of a fallen tree on the Kennet revealed 6 dead Barbel, all with only a few bits of missing, and this from a stretch that already had a low population of Barbel, unfortunately most evidence is anecdotal as the scientific community doesnt want to get involved.
I dont know about a cull but the simple fact is you cannot introduce an apex predator without impact, especially when they are overstocked. The Kennet has had otters for many years (30+) so why did they put more in ?
The EA themselves along with Natural England ( i think ) have admitted otters have had a major impact on small rivers, they do not yet know why, and do not seem to be too keen to find out, also they have no idea how many there are out there.

i have signed it as if nothing else it might provoke a proper impact assessment of whats happening.
Click to expand...

Where on the Kennet has all this happened Robert?
 
Petitions do bugger all. Evidence? The only response you'll get is 'what illegal introductions'. You're better off going after the cormorants, they've done the damage and are invasive.
 
Dredge the Rivers that will satisfy all the different bodies that have Wild life conservation at heart. I mean we can't have flood plains flooding can we?

Besides why don't the brave few that live on the wetlands of Somerset each invest in a boat, not as if it would be redundant, their surely has to be some responsibility attached to those that want to live below sea level by the coast?

Off track, sorry.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ian Crook said:
Where on the Kennet has all this happened Robert?
Click to expand...

Hi Ian

the 3 fish taken in 1 swim was lower benyons, only 1 otter seen, the 6 dead barbel was up near Newbury, last time i was at upper benyons, a pike of maybe 10lb or so drifting downriver, no throat to speak of, looked very fresh, no guarantees it was an otter but is likely from the wounds.
Brimptom which used to have a big head of med sized Barbel its rare to spot 1 nowdays. Aagain up by Brimpton i saw a barbel in the water trapped by bushes, no throat to speak of. Not been out much for Barbel this year, last year on upper and lower benyons by autumn @60% of double figure Barbel taken by myself or people i fish with had varying degrees of tail damage, from small chunks missing to almost no tail. Previous to that i rarely saw a fish like that.
Thats why i would like to see scientific surveys to assess the impact and if required some method of control, i am not saying cull as i am sure there are other options as well.
Also seems to be a shortage of big chub but that more likely my rubbish fishing methods :)

rob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top